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What the Cubase MIDI Track Volume Fader Does

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Michael Trigoboff
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I've been wondering what the Cubase MIDI Track volume fader does, and I think I've finally figured it out. I slid the volume fader on a Cubase MIDI track back and forth and looked around on the Montage screen to see if I could spot something moving. I finally found it on the Mixing display. Apparently, the Cubase MIDI Track volume fader controls the "Mst" volume level, which is the volume level for the entire Performance.

Does the Cubase MIDI Track volume fader do this by sending CC7 MIDI messages to the Montage?

I also noticed that changing the "Mst" volume level on the Montage did not cause the Cubase MIDI Track volume fader to change, so apparently the connection only goes in one direction, from Cubase to the Montage.

 
Posted : 14/02/2017 12:16 am
Michael Trigoboff
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What I said in the original post was what happens when the Montage is set to MIDI Single (CH1).

When the Montage is set to MIDI Multi, the MIDI Track volume fader controls the volume of the Part corresponding to the output channel setting (1-16) of the MIDI Track.

But if the output channel of the track is set to "Any," the MIDI Track volume fader apparently has no effect on anything. This makes some sense because what channel would the volume fader send CC7 messages on in that situation? The choices would seem to be either send the CC7 messages on all channels simultaneously (which would be kind of a mess), or don't send anything (which is apparently how it's implemented).

 
Posted : 15/02/2017 5:29 am
Michael Trigoboff
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Revisiting this:

I noticed that when I slide the corresponding slider on my Montage, the Cubase MIDI track volume setting doesn’t change even though the track is receiving the CC7 messages and Monitor is set to On for that track.

Should the MIDI track volume change if I have things set up correctly, or is this something that’s never supposed to happen?

 
Posted : 26/07/2018 1:11 am
Michael Trigoboff
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I keep talking to myself here: πŸ˜€

I figured out the answer. You need to set up the Montage as a Generic Remote Device in Studio Setup. I can provide more detail if anyone besides me is interested.

 
Posted : 26/07/2018 1:59 am
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I am sure you will find a lot more interesting stuff.
Seems like you did not get to the recording of the automation yet πŸ˜‰

 
Posted : 26/07/2018 6:12 pm
Michael Trigoboff
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Not yet. Have you tried it?

 
Posted : 26/07/2018 7:44 pm
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In most cases when you simply record in DAW automation gets recorded as well.
On Montage some performances without automation will not be played back correctly at all (even if you use only keys).
For instance Bosendorfer Imperial Grand.

 
Posted : 26/07/2018 8:45 pm
Bad Mister
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Cubase Mixer is not strictly a MIDI mixer... at times both MIDI Track channels and Audio Track channels are side by side. DAWs typical conform to a special protocol where the MIDI messages are isolated on a separate Port from the Note-on and Controller data for music performing takes place - when you tons of MIDI and/or Audio tracks and lanes the Mix automation requires a separate Port to handle all the data.

Cubase has R/W (Read/Write) automation that can be setup - (no, you do not use the Track Record Function) automation is documented whether MIDI Tracks are in record, or not... you activate the β€œW” to Write automation. You activate the β€œR” to Read or play it back. Cubase allows you to keep these events in a separate area so that you can easily edit them independently from the rest of the musical performance.

So there are several different subjects here.

If you recall, the Motif XF utilized Port 2 to handle DAW REMOTE commands. This is where the front panel buttons, Knobs, sliders, etc., are completely retasked with controlling functions of the DAW. This is a deeper level of external DAW REMOTE control... (separate thing from just recording cc007 commands on the MIDI Track or even the R/W automation.

cc007 commands recorded on MONTAGE Port 1, will impact the MONTAGE when played back to the MONTAGE. They do not necessarily affect the Cubase Mixer... you will see them impact an *active* channel - there’s an important difference. As you engage a Fader sending cc007, like any channel message it is sent Out, it reaches an active MIDI Track and is echoed back to the Tone Generator. The volume item in the Track Inspector will move.

Remotely controlling the Cubase Mixer will take place on a separate Port (and will not use cc007, nor will the commands be transmitted on Port1)

 
Posted : 27/07/2018 12:07 am
Michael Trigoboff
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Currently I have the Generic Remote Device set up to receive cc007 from two of the sliders on my Montage via Port 1. This allows the Montage sliders to control the volume setting of two of the MIDI tracks in my project. I can move a Montage slider and watch the controls in Cubase move accordingly.

I don't do this while I'm recording, I just do this to set things up first. (And because it was fun to figure out how to do it.)

Are you saying I should set this up to use Port 2 instead? When I move a Montage slider, does something get transmitted on Port 2? If so, and if it's not cc007, what gets transmitted on Port 2 instead?

 
Posted : 30/07/2018 3:47 am
Jason
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Montage doesn't implement port 2. If true transport controls were supported - port 2 would be where they would live. Any mention of port 2 with respect to Montage would be hypothetical in the present tense. Hints suggest that transport controls are coming in a later release as this does seem to be a step backwards in the evolution of the product line.

The information given here regarding port 2 referenced the Motif XF. MOXF also supports true transport controls.

 
Posted : 30/07/2018 5:26 am
Bad Mister
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Port 2 is reserved for future use... this has been a known fact since its release two years ago. Remote Control of the DAW is a separate subject from controlling MIDI VOLUMES on a channel.

Current MONTAGE does not have a DAW REMOTE mode.
Current MONTAGE does send cc007 (along with all other standard Channel Control Change Numbers) from its controllers which can be recorded and played back to the Tone Generator.

Fun is one thing... For the proper Remote Control of Cubase you will need to wait for a future update that addresses this protocol (automation, what controls for example, the Cubase Mixer, Transport, Plug-ins, etc., etc.) is enough data to require its own PORT. Remote Control setup protocols differ greatly depending on the DAW being addressed. The commands to change Track Volumes for Cubase will be different in Logic and different in another DAW... So specific Setups must be created and recalled to control specific DAWs.

If all you are doing is cc007 (Channel Volume) those messages can coexist on your MIDI tracks with the Note-on events. Totally a separate thing!

 
Posted : 30/07/2018 10:54 am
Bad Mister
Posts: 12304
 

Download firmware 2.5 and try out the Remote Control feature; it uses Port 2 and β€œMackie Control” protocol... this will give you the type of control that your DAW deserves. Templates for Cubase, Logic, Live and Pro Tools.

 
Posted : 31/07/2018 4:25 pm
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It has been released today.
Do not rush πŸ˜‰

 
Posted : 31/07/2018 4:30 pm
Michael Trigoboff
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Download firmware 2.5 and try out the Remote Control feature; it uses Port 2 and β€œMackie Control” protocol... this will give you the type of control that your DAW deserves. Templates for Cubase, Logic, Live and Pro Tools.

On my way! Thanks!

 
Posted : 31/07/2018 11:00 pm
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