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Poll: I have a YC but which Yamaha board should I add?

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david
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Portability, speakers and battery power aside and primarily considering an additional voice library both quality first and amount second, should I add a..........

1) CK61 for ~$999 New
2) MODX+61 for ~$1,500 New
3) Montage 6 for ~$2,300 Used

 
Posted : 16/04/2023 8:02 pm
Posts: 773
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You haven't provided a reason for adding anything at all.

Your question is like asking if you should buy a hammer, a saw or a leaf blower.

1. why do you want/need to add anything?
2. what do you plan to do with whatever you add?
3. what kind of music do you plan to play?
4. do you need specific types of voices? pianos? organs? guitars? eastern music?
5. does it need to work with external devices? as a controller? as a robot?

Give us something to work with.

 
Posted : 16/04/2023 8:58 pm
Posts: 801
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I think the only reasons to choose a MODX+ over a Montage are price and travel weight. If those aren't factors for you here (and you don't care about new vs. used), then you can eliminate one of the three possibilities.

I suspect that, between the YC and the Montage, you'd have every sound that's in the CK, and often a better version of it than what's in the CK. So "Portability, speakers and battery power" aside, I think the only reasons to choose the CK over the Montage is if you simply enjoy the real-time interface so much more, that you're willing to trade off the many Montage advantages.

 
Posted : 16/04/2023 11:20 pm
david
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1. why do you want/need to add anything? -As stated just for the library of voices
2. what do you plan to do with whatever you add? -Use it in a home studio as only a voice library
3. what kind of music do you plan to play? -I only play my own improv custom entertainment stuff for
personal enjoyment and nothing else

4. do you need specific types of voices? pianos? organs? guitars? eastern music? -Yes all but the best most realistic of them
5. does it need to work with external devices? as a controller? as a robot? -No only inputting into YC as midi controller playing all synths thru it including Skpro, ASM, Opsix, CK, CP1 and whatever else I get to compare, Fantom is collecting dust currently it's harsh sounding and to digitalish. At one time or another I've owned most all Yamaha boards including Montage 88 and Genos.

I sort of sold Montage for several reasons, 1) didn't need the 88, 2) no time to play it and 3)needed money (now I own my own engineering company so I'm back to playing) then I got the Fantom so again didn't need it. 4) I also thought Montage 2 would eventually be released. I occasionally scream double high Ds on my trumpet to stay in tip top shape but I sort of suck at it. The trumpet is too tough, too much work, demanding and there's absolutely no place to play. As I'm aging I've turned to stage boards mostly.

 
Posted : 17/04/2023 12:40 am
Posts: 1717
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It sounds like you're describing a Korg Nautilus.

 
Posted : 17/04/2023 1:57 am
Posts: 801
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[quotePost id=121263]1. why do you want/need to add anything? -As stated just for the library of voices
2. what do you plan to do with whatever you add? -Use it in a home studio as only a voice library
...4. do you need specific types of voices? pianos? organs? guitars? eastern music? -Yes all but the best most realistic of them[/quotePost]
For home use, for the biggest voice library, and the best most realistic versions of most of them, why not add some software to your setup?

It's kind of like you're looking for the best burger you can find at a seafood place. You might find a good burger, but if that's really your focus, you're probably better off going to a good burger place.

 
Posted : 17/04/2023 1:43 pm
Dragos
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As a controller the Montage gives you a better keybed, aftertouch, the ribbon, more knobs and better placed modwheels.
As a sound module the Montage gives you a better quality output stage and a set of assignable outs.

 
Posted : 17/04/2023 2:23 pm
david
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So sweetwater is a gear monster and they literally have zero Montages of any size or color. To me this implies a new replacement is coming and production has slowed or being converted over. I really like the white because dark on dark is hard to see. Most places have insane prices. I paid $2,200 for a refurbished Fantom and some dealers want $4000 for the Montage 6 and it's 7 years old. Not a realistic price. I have a quote out the door for $2,800 free financing but to me that's still way too high.

 
Posted : 17/04/2023 9:47 pm
Jason
Posts: 7910
Illustrious Member
 

Genos is in stock but doesn't come in white.

There's some non-overlapping functionality with the arranger keyboard.

Price is way up there (and isn't inflated - they just are priced more at a premium vs. Montage).

 
Posted : 17/04/2023 9:59 pm
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My experience with the MODX7 comes down to three main things:

(1) it has massive capability, but this necessarily introduces massive complexity. I have probably uncovered 2% of what it can do. Often, I find myself just using factory patches. Getting the best out of a MODX/Montage takes a huge amount of learning time. At the moment, my own priority is practicing for chops, and I don't have time for both, so a lot of the MODX's potential is really wasted on me.

(2) The keybed on the MODX7 is a bit lame (I'm presuming the MODX6 might have the same one, but not sure). Nothing really wrong with it, per se, it's just a bit lifeless. The black keys have some freeplay at the top of their travel. I've read several positive comments from new CK61 about the keybed, and some specifically comparing it favourably against the MODX. I will add my own to this forum when I get the chance to play one.

(3) This one might reflect my position on the MODX learning curve, but I just find the interface frustrating and difficult. Something as simple as adding drive or chorus takes too long a journey through screens.

(You can probably see why I was enthusiastic about the CK61)

You seem to have a leaning towards stage keyboards, so I'd be inclined toward the CK61, and since it's studio-based, fill any voice gaps with software instruments.

 
Posted : 17/04/2023 11:28 pm
david
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It's not too design bright to make a flagship that takes 30 minutes to find a setting no matter what all it can do. I had the Montage 88 and mostly just stared at the pretty lights. The SKpro is a hybrid as it doesn't have simple one-to-one but I like it. My CK and YC are one-to-one so they are plug and play. YC still has amazing lights and CK is well lit. I couldn't find how to dim the buttons because the whites ones will burn your retina in darkness. You can contrast the screen however. Yeah there's no way I'm spending $3K or $4K on a Montage 6 but if I located one for a good deal I might get it. CK and YC are a lot better for actually playing music.

 
Posted : 18/04/2023 12:03 am
david
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Here's an idea for ideascale. The next flagship model have a "stage board mode" that switches the overly complicated UI system into a direct access and on screen edits for simple stage board performances. You heard it here first.

 
Posted : 18/04/2023 12:19 am
Dragos
Posts: 0
Eminent Member
 

[quotePost id=121280]You heard it here first. [/quotePost]
It's been on IdeaScale for some time. I personally find it pointless.

It's the same for all keyboards of this type, not only for the Montage. People buy these cause they can do everything and then get frustrated that they do too much.

And then they get a stage board and start complaining that it should have this and that and be more complex.

The settings for the Montage are a shortcut away, btw.

 
Posted : 18/04/2023 6:40 am
luuc
 luuc
Posts: 25
Eminent Member
 

I agree with AnotherScott. If you just want additional quality voices, then get something that just fulfills that demand. Your next consideration could be: do I want hardware or software?

If you choose software, you still need a piece of hardware to run the vst, for instance a laptop or an iPad. I don't want to use my laptop with my stagepiano all the time, and so far I'm not too fond about the virtual instruments via iPad... So for me hardware modules is the way to go.

There's a lot of modules on the market: old ones and new ones, great sounds and not so great sounds, cheaper ones and more expensive ones, with lots of (different) sounds or with less (more specific kind of) sounds. Et cetera...

I have a Yamaha CP88 for a couple of years now. I love it! Never had a finer piece of gear. But the amount of different voices is still frustrating me a bit. So I bought the Dexibell Vivo SX-8 module (currently waiting for delivery) which is going to sit nicely on top of my CP. 🙂

 
Posted : 18/04/2023 11:37 am
david
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That my biggest grip is that synths have upwards of 4,000 voices whereas stage boards are from CP1 like 15, to 55 CP40, to CP 200+, to YC 160-ish, to CK 360-ish etc. I understand the concept that a stage doesn't need 4,000 but I don't understand why it doesn't have a 1000 either. I understand that they didn't design the UI or memory capacity to access 1000 but why not?

Why can't we have a stage board with one-to-one UI relationship and also have 1000 best voices covering all the bases? Probably price because for some reason they think people buying a stage board have a lot less money than someone buying a synth. THe CK is brilliant for that person and the CP/YC is fine for the center of the road but there's not a series available that crosses over and offers one-to-one UI and also unlimited voices. I'd buy it today if it existed. I'd hope that it would allow about 4 to 6 voices at once on a little larger screen. Sort of like a double CP/YC under one hood but laid out more like the CK but still luxurious like the YC.

Might just be because I'm getting older but the trend is shifting away from complexity toward simplicity but also welcoming a vast voice library so I don't have to add a module or second board. Badmister must have written thousands of instructions related to the Montage because no one could figure it out. I suspect the Montage finally retired him. I'm glad it's easy for some but do you want to spend all day polishing and buffing your Harley or just riding it? It's actually fun to take a brand new board out of the box and instantly play and know it while the owner's manual is still in it's wrapper.

I had to correct one word thus write this long explanation for it to be accepted as not spam.

 
Posted : 18/04/2023 5:34 pm
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