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Playing a part with an external MIDI master

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 Pino
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Hi,
I don't have a CP4 but I'm seriously oriented to buy one!

Please be patient with my english: I'm italian....

I've understood that it is possible to play a part with an external keyboard simply by:
1. Defining a performance having that part defined as a Split or layer
2. Set OFF the part with its button (the controller of the CP4 will not send MIDI data to the sound Engine)
3. Connect the MIDI master and configure it to send messages to the channel 2 if Layer or 3 if Split.

Ok. But....

If the master could send only to the MIDI channel 1, it sends the messages to the Main part of the CP4...

Well, I can swap the parts in my performance (e.g. A piano to play with the CP4 and strings to play with the master).
Split part for the Piano, with the split point set to G8: in this case I'll play the piano with the CP4, and the Strings in the Main part are played with the external master.
Ok, but...what about the other controllers, a part of the keyboard (foot switch, foot control, mw, pb etc)?

I come to my question: if I switch off the 'receive switches' in the main part edit, for sure the CP4 will not influence the Strings (main) part. But will the messages coming from the Master be processed by the sound engine?

In other words: what is the function behind switching off a 'receive switch'?
Does it stop the sending of the MIDI messages from the CP4 controller, or does it disable the processing of them by sound Engine (even if coming from a different source)?

Many thx in advance for your answers!

Pino, Italy

 
Posted : 01/06/2015 7:40 pm
Bad Mister
Posts: 12304
 

In other words: what is the function behind switching off a 'receive switch'?
Does it stop the sending of the MIDI messages from the CP4 controller, or does it disable the processing of them by sound Engine (even if coming from a different source)?

The RECEIVE SWITCH parameter when set to OFF prevents the PART in question from RECEIVING the selected control... whether from the CP4 Stage's own physical controllers or coming IN via MIDI. For example, you have the following separate Receive Switches for the MAIN, LAYER and SPLIT Parts:

Bank Select (cc000/032)
Program Change
Volume (cc007)
Pan (cc010)
CC (all Control Change messages)
PB
MW (cc001)
Sustain (cc064)
FS (default is cc088)
FC1 (default is cc011)
FC2 (default is cc004)

The RECEIVE SWITCH stops the CP4 Stage's tone generator from *receiving* these messages. It does not stop the controller from SENDING (TRANSMITTING) these messages.

If you want to stop the CP4 Stage from *transmitting* these messages OUT via MIDI - this is the role of the MASTER KEYBOARD setup within each PERFORMANCE. You can setup to transmit OUT via MIDI on four separate ZONES. And, again, this can be independent of what is set for the internal CP4 Stage's tone generator.
Hope that is clear enough.

RECEIVE is the internal Tone Generator
TRANSMIT is a function of the CP4 Stage's MASTER KEYBOARD TX SWITCH (short for Transmit Switch).

 
Posted : 01/06/2015 10:25 pm
 Pino
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Thank you for your answer, Bad Mister.

Just to check if I've understood...

To play a Piano with the CP4, and Strings with an external MIDI Master (with foot controller), having the limit that my master can only transmit via Channel 1, I must create a performance with:
- part MAIN: Strings;
- part LAYER: Piano;
- master keyboard area/common/MkbdSw: ON
- master keyboard area/Zone1/Zonesw: ON
- master keyboard area/Zone1/Channel: 2 (to send MIDI messages from the CP4 to the Sound Engine - Layer Part
- master keyboard area/Zone1/NoteLimits: Low: C-2; High: G8
- master keyboard area/Zone1/TxSw: ON for the controllers I want for the piano (say, all a part of Bank and Program Change)
- master keyboard area/Zone2-4/Zonesw: OFF

With this configuration, the CP4 controls only the Piano (Layer Part - channel 2), and the strings are "receiving" both notes on/off and Cc from the External master (via channel 1).

Am I right?

 
Posted : 02/06/2015 12:08 am
Bad Mister
Posts: 12304
 

No. Not even close.

If I understand what you want to do is use some other keyboard product (that still remains unnamed), as your external Master controller but it is only capable of transmitting on MIDI channel 1. Since I don't know what that product is, I cannot help you set that up. You've told us it that it only transmits on MIDI channel 1. I've never heard of a MIDI keyboard controller that only transmits on MIDI channel 1. ... Not much of a MIDI Controller (IMHO). Perhaps it's just a simple keyboard and not really designed as a proper controller... Because if it were a true/proper controller you should be able to adjust the transmit channel.

Unless you are using the CP4 Stage to play some yet unmentioned synth tone engine there is no good reason to use the CP4's Master Keyboard function. The CP4 Stage does not transmit to itself via the Master Keyboard setup. This function is ONLY for transmitting OUT via MIDI... and like most proper MIDI controllers, you can select ANY transmit channel, 1-16, per Zone.

To play a Piano with the CP4, and Strings with an external MIDI Master (with foot controller), having the limit that my master can only transmit via Channel 1, I must create a performance with:
- part MAIN: Strings;
- part LAYER: Piano;

Doing this will mean your external controller will play the MAIN (Strings). But you have no method to play just the LAYER PART alone from the CP4 Stage's keyboard while playing the Strings from external. With Strings as Main, and Piano as Layer, striking keys on the CP4 will sound both Strings and Piano. The lit front panel PART buttons determine what the CP4's keys will play.
The MAIN is called that because it will always sound from the CP4's own keys.

I highly suggest you get a proper Master Keyboard that can send OUT on more than just channel 1. If you don't mind me asking what is it you are using as this mysterious external 'master controller'?

- master keyboard area/common/MkbdSw: ON[/qoute]You only set this ON in a Performance when you are using the CP4 Stage as a Master Keyboard controller for external devices. You can play 1 to 4 external tone engines with the four Zones. However, you do not play the internal CP4 Stage tone engine via these Zones... They are only for external MIDI devices.

- master keyboard area/Zone1/Zonesw: ON
- master keyboard area/Zone1/Channel: 2 (to send MIDI messages from the CP4 to the Sound Engine - Layer Part

No, this is what I am telling you WILL NOT work.

- master keyboard area/Zone1/NoteLimits: Low: C-2; High: G8

This is meaningless as you have nothing (mentioned thus far) connected to the MIDI OUT of the CP4 Stage!

- master keyboard area/Zone1/TxSw: ON for the controllers I want for the piano (say, all a part of Bank and Program Change)

Again, the CP4 Stage DOES NOT address itself via the Master Keyboard area. This area only addresses external MIDI devices.

- master keyboard area/Zone2-4/Zonesw: OFF

Meaningless. Because MASTER KEYBOARD ZONE's are only for transmitting OUT via MIDI... and you are not using the CP4 Stage to transmit OUT via MIDI.

Suggestion: Get an external controller that can transmit on MIDI channel 2. This will solve all your problems.
Place the Piano in the MAIN - play this from the CP4's keys
Place the Strings in the LAYER - leave the [LAYER] button OFF, it will sound when you play the external keyboard transmitting on Channel 2.
Done.

Alternate suggestion: Get a device that allows you to "channelize" the output of your external MIDI Controller.

 
Posted : 02/06/2015 1:02 am
 Pino
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Topic starter
 

Bad Mister, you are right.

I had totally misunderstood the "Master keyboard" function, but now it is definitively clear. Thank you.

I'm trying to find the best MIDI connection between a CP4 and a Studiologic Numa Organ 2.
Consider that I play keyboards in two Tribute Bands: Rolling Stones and Eagles.
So more than 90% of my gig is focused on piano (both acoustic and rhodes/wurli) and hammond.
But occasionally I need to use pads or strings (consider Angie by Rolling Stones...).

Well, the Numa Organ 2 (Studiologic) is a very good clonewheel (only Hammond, no other sounds) and no doubts that CP4 is "the best stage piano ever" (Chuck Leavell docet 🙂 ).
And the CP4 has a lot of Motif sounds on board (not to tell about the VMC Effects...).

The Numa Organ 2 has a functionality called "Dynamic touch/MIDI": in this mode, the keyboard act as a controller, in the sense that is set to "local off" (so, no hammond sound is produced), and the MIDI messages are sent via the MIDI out port to other external sound devices..
Strange to say (Studiologic produces very nice MIDI master...), but this mode is very limited: all the messages are sent to the MIDI channel 1 (only notes of the "lower" organ can be sent on channel 2, but all the controllers send to channel one). No way to define a different channel (I'm in contact with Studiologic, too).

I understand very well that another MIDI controller could solve the issue, but in this case my gig setup would consist of 3 keyboards, not only two....
Another solution is to buy a "channalizer" (I've seen one by "MIDI solutions": thank you for the suggestion).

I see that a possibility is to use the Split (instead of the Layer) Part for the Piano, with the split point set to G8.
But the foot pedals of the CP4 (both sustain and expression) would control also the Strings/PAD (Main i.e. Channel 1 part).

This is my little problem: probably the best solutions is the first you suggested: anothar MIDI controller for PAD/Strings sound.

These were the details behind my initial question.
Many thanks for your answers. And if you have any further idea...

Ciao.

Pino, Italy

 
Posted : 02/06/2015 6:16 pm
 Pino
Posts: 0
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Topic starter
 

Just a quick info more.

I have an iPad Air (last model, iOS 8.3), and an app called iMidiPatchBay that can route MIDI messages to different device and MIDI channels.

Is the CP4 compatible with my iPad, using the "camera connection kit"?

 
Posted : 04/06/2015 10:56 am
Bad Mister
Posts: 12304
 

Is the CP4 compatible with my iPad, using the "camera connection kit"?

No, the CP4 Stage is not compatible with your iPad via the Camera Connection Kit.

You may have read in another thread, here on YamahaSynth, where I instructed the poster to run the CP4 Stage through the MOXF (both MIDI and Audio) to connect to their iPad... that works great and the MOXF would make great second keyboard!

Read about it: here

 
Posted : 04/06/2015 2:07 pm
Jeff
 Jeff
Posts: 0
Active Member
 

Why isn't the CP4 compatible with iPad Camera Connection Kit? That kit provides DIN MIDI in/out connectors for the iPad or iPhone. In what way is the CP4 incompatible?

Running iPad with iMidiPatchBay should operate the same as a MidiSolutions Channelizer, except probably higher latency. It's a MIDI-in to MIDI-out device. The CP4's DIN MIDI connector would be used.

(Regardless, MOXF is an all-around great keyboard, and might be a better solution for the OP than CP4. I had a hard time choosing between CP4 and MOXF8.)

Thanks!

 
Posted : 09/06/2015 3:37 pm
Bad Mister
Posts: 12304
 

Why isn't the CP4 compatible with iPad Camera Connection Kit? That kit provides DIN MIDI in/out connectors for the iPad or iPhone. In what way is the CP4 incompatible?

Audio - the CP4 does not send audio via the USB "To Host" port. If all you need to do is send MIDI to an iPad/iPhone that will work via the Camera Connenction Kit USB, but no audio transfer is possible (as with the MOXF). Sorry for the confusion.

 
Posted : 09/06/2015 10:47 pm
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