Isn’t this to do with the envelopes not retriggering until you fully release the key? I know on my DSI synths I can set this to on or off so that the note sounds full every time if set to on but I can’t remember if there’s an option on the Montage for this.

So on the DSI synths the retrigger on option will retrigger every time a key is pressed, even if the previous key hasn’t been fully released yet.

Even key off sample noise can interfere if the voice is programmed that way. It provides almost like a sudo portamento or glide effect instead of a clean strike with every new key press. It's likely retriggering mode. Depends on what you're after. Holy cow the Osmose has all kinds of mannerisms and every voice is a little different. Wait until you play a MPE it gets interesting to control however you can still set the curves. IF you think about it realistically, a blown, plucked or bowed instrument is very hard to control so when these synths reduce the margin for error it's actually more unrealistic than realistic. The real thing is way harder to play than synths make it seem. Synths do a lot of difficult work for us but certainly pressing the right keys is often difficult enough not to worry with additional gestures.

In mono synth sounds with a single part, I can't find any separate element that separates the sound of the first note from the second and third ...etc. .. legato note sounds, so I can't control the sound.

what makes the sound of the first note different from other legato sounds in mono synth sounds with a single part, how can it be controlled.

Answer: The position of the Portamento Part Switch and your phrasing technique.

Recall your Single Part mono synth. “Phat Dino”, “Mini Three” will do nicely…

Select the Part (it is a Part parameter but if you have multiple Parts you can control/adjust each as you desire)
Press [EDIT] > “Part Settings” > “General” > “Mono/Poly” — here is where the Part is set to Mono
The option below “General” in the second column is “Pitch”
Here you can set the Portamento functions.

Portamento deals with how the sound behaves between Note-on events.
You will notice that under the heading “Portamento” there is a “Master Switch” and a “Part Switch” — this allows several Parts to be manipulated within a Performance.

Also notice the option to choose “Fingered” or “Fulltime”
“Fingered” is one way to control this feature. When this is selected for a mono lead sound, you must actually play legato (trigger a subsequent note before releasing the first). You will get one behavior when you play legato and a different behavior if you do not.
”Fulltime” is consistent behavior whether you play legato or not. The Portamento is active at all times.

Most people don’t think to look here because they only associate Portamento with the pitch glide function. But notice that the “Time” function here starts at 0.

Zero does not equal Off
When the Master Switch is On and the Part Switch is On (for this Part)… a Portamento Time setting of 0 is quite different from the Part Switch = Off. Even with zero (0) Time (no pitch glide) you will notice a difference in the behavior of how note-ons connect within a phrase. The 0 refers simply to the amount of pitch movement - (Portamento governs how note-on events connect regardless of any pitch movement).

Playing legato on a mono program with Portamento Off has a behavior where the note being held will trigger a new attack when you release the second note played. With Portamento On the behavior changes, the original pitch returns when the second note is released, but the original envelope does not retrigger. The pitch sounds but the envelope did not restart. When ON, all legato phrased note-ons play under the envelope of the first note-on.

Playing with Portamento
The Portamento function can be activated with a momentary switch (just like sustain) such that when engaged the Part Switch will turn On, when disengaged the Part Switch will turn Off.

Plug a FC4A or F5 type momentary Foot Switch into the Assignable FS jack on the MONTAGE back panel. Setting the “Assign FS” = CC65 (Portamento Switch) will allow you to manipulate the “Part Switch” On/Off using your foot.

In the video you can see Corey is using what is called a ‘hit-it-and-quit-it’ fingering style (second nature to organ players who perfect it playing with percussion* on a B3).
*Percussion on a B3 only occurs on a fresh clean attack — the behavior of percussion on a B3 is such that it only occurs when no other note is being held at the moment. If you do play with any legato — you get no percussion … you must phrase in a ‘hit-it-and-quit-it’ style to ensure the note plays with percussion. See the Performances: “16 + 8 + 5& 1/3”, “The Basics” for this “mono percussion” emulation. (This uses an entirely different programming trick to accomplish this_mono percussion on a polyphonic Tone Wheel organ; but is relevant as to keyboard technique and synth behavior).

Portamento
The Portamento function here works similarly (in how you approach playing) when dealing with a mono program.
Here you can set it to “Fingered” or “Fulltime” portamento, each giving you a different sonic behavior.
or
You can use an Assignable FS to activate the “Part Sw” whenever you want a specific behavior.
[UTILITY] > “Settings” > “MIDI I/O” > “Assign FS” = 65
Engaging the pedal will toggle the Part Switch On/Off

Experiment with these parameters and your playing style on various mono lead sounds. You will discover when the Portamento Switches are On, that even with Time = 0, the way the notes of a mono lead connect are influenced.

That should get you started.

Extra Credit:
The programming on a lead sound can vary and what happens during a legato phrase is very much up to the programmer. For example, a program that has a prominent filter movement that gradually changes over time, can be made to occur only when you address the keyboard in a certain fashion. If you lift your finger and retrigger that action resets the envelope.

If you think of phrasing as a wind player, it helps put a musical slant on it… retriggering here, is like taking a breath before playing a phrase. Like a wind instrument player, you take a breath and attack the horn… you do not have to take a breath on every note. Neither does the envelope behave the same on every note.

A phrase is all the notes you play on that single attack. Retriggering is akin to a new breath, a new phrase.

Well, it’s a way to begin thinking about it… it’s a synth, there are no strict rules.
As keyboard players (most of us started on piano) we are accustomed to a particular way of activating notes. Wind player do not have the same 1:1 relationship between keys and notes. They do not always have to press a key to get a note, and the velocity the key is struck has nothing to do with the output level, etc., etc. So constructing phrases on a wind instrument must take into account the intake of life sustaining air at some point (or work in a way around it).

The mono legato Portamento function lets you play one attack (first note-on) with a specific envelope and subsequent notes will either duplicate that envelope or not, depending on your keyboard technique. There is also a ‘time’ factor in both Filter EG and Amp EG that can come into play — lead sounds, generally, will have an envelope that allows sound as long as a key is held.

Phat Dino, Mini Three. etc... many mono synths such as lead sound, while first key (note) is pressed, low volume sound comes from the other (second note third note.. ) keys.

The reason why this would happen is due to the "Amp EG". When notes are set to play portamento and you play legato (meaning holding down one key while pressing a second) the envelope generators (amp, filter, etc) do not retrigger. The EGs will most likely mostly finish with the first note and the following notes will end up in Decay 2. The second note played will start the EG at the same place where the previous note left off with the EG.

And "Amp EG" (under elements 1, 2, 3 ... 8) dictates the volume over time.

The first note sounds so different from the other legato notes that it makes the solo uncontrolled
[...]like corny's lingus, where every note is heard with the same loudness and character whether it is connected or not.

The "character" (meaning timbre) of the note is different for the notes played legato after the first due to the element's "Filter EG". It acts similarly to Amp EG described above. Where most likely the 2nd note will be at the Decay 2 phase of the envelope and never travel through the attack/decay 1.

Referencing the "Phat Dino" preset (with specifics)

1) Recall the "Phat Dino" preset with [CATEGORY SEARCH]
2) Edit Part 1 (the only Part)
3) Touch "Elem1" down at the bottom of the screen to start editing at the element level
4) Navigate to the "Amplitude" -> "Amp EG" menu (buttons on left side of touchscreen)
5) Notice for this element, the Attack Level is 127, Decay 1 Level is 127, and Decay 2 Level is 120. When you first play a note the first note played will instantly go from level 0 to the attack level (127 - maximum), then will hold this level for some time (46 - Decay 1 time and Decay 1 level is the same as Attack level which is why I say "hold" this level), then will slope down to the Decay 2 level of 120. Once Decay 2 is reached - the amplitude will continue to stay at this same level as long as you play legato.

If you look at Elem2 and Elem3 - they have the same characteristics and values as Elem1.

6) For these elements, the volume difference is subtle. If you can perceive this then you can "fix" this by changing the Decay 2 Level to 127 for each of the elements. Now all notes will have the same volume and there will be no movement at all of the level over time. Other presets may have more drastic amplitude differences in the Amp EG - so it may be very meaningful for some other preset.
7) Rinse and repeat but now look at Elem1's "Filter" -> "Filter EG" screen.
8) Notice for this element, the filter is instantly set to the level of +67 (Attack Level) then will ramp down to 0 over the time unit of "72" (Decay 1 Time). What this is doing is making the first note initially start bright then darken the timbre and leave it dark for the rest of the envelope.

If you look at Elem2 and Elem3 - they have have the same characteristics and values as Elem1

9) For these elements, the filter (timbre, character) difference is not so subtle. It's pretty wildly different having the first note start with the filter "cranked up" to 67 and then the following notes most likely at 0 (Decay 2 level). To "fix" this, you would edit the Filter Amp as follows:

9a) Set Decay 1 Level to +67 matching the attack level
9b) Set Decay 2 Level to +67 matching both the attack and newly changed Decay 1 levels

What this does is makes sure the filter will have no movement for any notes until you release all of the keys. This certainly does change the character of the first note since it won't ramp down to 0 anymore. However, maybe this is what was desired to begin with.

10) That's most of it. You'll notice that still the sound of each note depends on your velocity (how "hard" you strike the notes) - even of legato played notes. The reason for this is the "Depth/Vel" parameter for the Filter EG. If you do not want your velocity to impact the filter, then change "Depth/Vel" from "Phat Dino"'s +35 to +0. You'll also notice that this overall brightens up the sound because there is no attenuation for low velocities anymore. If you want to darken it up a bit, then you can reduce "FEG Depth" for all elements.

11) Still not there - you'll notice there's big sound "character" difference if you strike a key at low velocity then play legato the second note at a very high velocity. Or vice versa (high velocity then low). What's going on here is that the cutoff value for our filter is moving around depending on how hard we strike a key. To modify this, look at Elem1's "Filter" -> "Type" screen. You notice that for this element, the Cutoff/Vel setting is +28. Don't want this to change depending on velocity? Change it to +0. Do this for all 3 elements. You may notice this darkens up the sound. You can brighten up the sound in this menu by increasing the Cutoff value (which is 200) to something higher. I set it to "210" for all 3 elements - but this is really a "to taste" kind of setting.

Now it doesn't matter how hard you strike a key - there's no dynamics anymore (volume) and also no change in the "character" (filter's impact on timbre).

Osmose has something called glide which is adjustable either only between two adjacent notes or 2, 3 up to a full octave of the entire keyboard. Notes that fall outside of the custom range don't glide which allows you to play both a glide and otherwise at the same time. Hands down the most fantastic board I've ever played. Obviously it's not a workstation but each time I sit down to play it's like 4 hours gone that feels like 15 minutes. Then after I leave I come right back to it. Addictive beyond belief and unlike many boards with hundreds of voices you never use (I call fillers), I like 90% of the 500 it has. I predict every keyboard player will have one eventually plus it's affordable. The hypnotic power it possesses actually improves your playing because it's so exciting and it makes you want to play better and somehow teaches you to play better. We still need static boards but everyone will own this or some future form of it like 73 keys. 49 feels like plenty for me. Somehow the collaboration of the MPE key design with the Matrix engine is simply revolutionary. Best of all it's totally organic and natural, you'd swear on your life it's a real world acoustic instrument when you solo it in a mix.

@Dogukan

Just to follow up ...

I know you requested a Soundmondo example. I can certainly do that - but there are only a handful of values documented here to change in order to achieve what you're after. It's probably better for you to go through the process of updating these yourself so you're learning more how to do this on your own for future for other sounds.

Let me know if you'd still prefer a Soundmondo example.

[quotePost id=122073]Osmose has something called glide which is adjustable either only between two adjacent notes or 2, 3 up to a full octave of the entire keyboard. Notes that fall outside of the custom range don't glide which allows you to play both a glide and otherwise at the same time.[/quotePost]
I have a patch set up that way on my MODX. It's the same sound above and below a split point, except that there's a glide on one side of the split point and no glide on the other.

[quotePost id=122078]@Dogukan

Just to follow up ...

I know you requested a Soundmondo example. I can certainly do that - but there are only a handful of values documented here to change in order to achieve what you're after. It's probably better for you to go through the process of updating these yourself so you're learning more how to do this on your own for future for other sounds.

Let me know if you'd still prefer a Soundmondo example.[/quotePost]

Thanks a lot for the detailed explanations, I was able to make the changes I wanted by trying all the steps one by one to All of you.

However, I would also like to download and examine a sound made by you from soundmono Jason.

If you followed the instructions here then you would have arrived at my Performance. I'm sure you figured this before asking so I'll go ahead and upload it as requested.

I'm glad you got things working how you like. Montage (and MODX) are extremely flexible. The Presets present the programmer's (who are also keyboard players) ideas to showcase some feature or arrive at a certain sound. They're merely suggestive (or a starting point) as you have so many options to alter the presets and save as your own user Performance.

Filter EG" settings brought it quite close to the desired result. I definitely prefer to keep the partomento on. The manipulations on the 1263 Dynamic Mini sound gave the best results because I wanted a similar delay.

I'm glad you got things working how you like. Montage (and MODX) are extremely flexible. The Presets present the programmer's (who are also keyboard players) ideas to showcase some feature or arrive at a certain sound. They're merely suggestive (or a starting point) as you have so many options to alter the presets and save as your own user Performance.[/quotePost]

[quotePost id=122109][quotePost id=122092]If you followed the instructions here then you would have arrived at my Performance. I'm sure you figured this before asking so I'll go ahead and upload it as requested.

I'm glad you got things working how you like. Montage (and MODX) are extremely flexible. The Presets present the programmer's (who are also keyboard players) ideas to showcase some feature or arrive at a certain sound. They're merely suggestive (or a starting point) as you have so many options to alter the presets and save as your own user Performance.[/quotePost]

Hi Jason

here is mine s ,,,

https://soundmondo.yamahasynth.com/voices/106337

https://soundmondo.yamahasynth.com/voices/106338

I'm looking forward to your preset. :))

I wanted to let you know the hold-up here is locating an adapter to hook up my laptop to the keyboard. I've also got 32 tunes to cram for this weekend and other various priority things happening. It'll eventually happen.

if whenever possible , i am following..thank you