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how to make an 8 part step sequence in with Monateg an Cubase Elements 12

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Gabi
 Gabi
Posts: 0
Estimable Member
Topic starter
 

Hi, I need help. Since the Montage has no step sequencer, I made a step sequence in Cubase with an 8 part performance of the Montage. Each note of the sequence in Cubase is on a different track of 8 tracks, assigned to 8 midi channels. Each track is assigned to a part of the Montage, made from one and the same performance, copied to 8 parts with some changes to each part.

I want to play this sequence back in Cubase and move the tone knobs of single parts, by activating those parts on the Montage and then manually turning tone knobs, changing to another part and so on while I bounce to audio.

First problems: those knobs cannot be moved unless each and every one of those midi tracks is in recording mode. which is not what I want to do. the only place where I want to record my live knob movements is the audio track that I´m, bouncing to. why can I not move those knobs whithout recording their midi?

Second problem: it doesn´t work. in the beginning it seems to work, but after around a minute, some parts just go mute even thow I am not touching any of their knobs but working on another part. update: I found out that this happens because, even thow I select single parts, Cubase records the same movements on all parts. So if I am thinking I´m just upping the attack of one part, it indeed records it for all parts and the sound of everything is gone.

Or, if anyone has any suggestion how to make a step sequence in the Montage that is like what (www.sound-dust.com/plankton) can do, I simply can´t figure out how.

 
Posted : 15/09/2022 12:31 pm
Gabi
 Gabi
Posts: 0
Estimable Member
Topic starter
 

I think my Cubase "step sequencer" method is simply a total fail. Does anyone have a suggestion on how to make a step sequence on the Montage directly, in which every single of the 16 step sequence notes can have different attributes like pitch, cutoff, release and so on?

 
Posted : 15/09/2022 1:12 pm
Darryl
Posts: 783
Prominent Member
 

I'm not sure this will be of much help to you, as I may have a completely different workflow with sequencing, and I'm not of all the specifics of what you are trying to do; However I thought I'd share a few things that I do that might help or spark a thought in what you might try.

Also, I am not as familiar with Cubase, as I've only worked with it a few times. I use Pro Tools HD for all MIDI sequencing recording & editing.

I don't know if this applies to what you are trying to do, nor exactly how it might be done in Cubase; however one thing that 'may' or may not come into play is setting the MIDI I/O Mode. I generally use 'Multi' mode most of the time, which is basically for recording/playing individual MIDI PARTs / MIDI Tracks in Pro Tools. If however I want to play all active KBD CTRL PARTs from a single MIDI PART / MIDI Track/Channel, such as a multi-PART piano, I would set the MIDI I/O Mode to 'Single', and then record & edit the sequencing of PART1 / MIDI Track1/Channel1.

Also I always make sure that Quick Setup is set properly on the Montage for what I am trying to do. (Utility > Settings > Quick Setup)
When recording MIDI & Editing Tracks I press/set the 'MIDI Rec on DAW' button at the bottom.
When playing back MIDI to an Audio Track, I press/set the 'Audio Rec on DAW' button.

Everyone likely has their own workflow. My workflow is pretty basic most of the time. I usually record MIDI sequencing of 1 PART on the Montage at a time, recording it to the associated Pro Tools MIDI Track. I then do the Editing & Tweaking of various recorded parameters, like Velocity, Sustain, Aftertouch, Mod Wheel, Pitch Bend, etc., as well as Copy/Paste repeating sections that are snapped into place via Grid mode in Pro Tools (and sometimes not in Grid mode, depending). If I have any Destination parameters set to AssignKnob's, Assign SW's, etc., then I will record (in Merge mode-Pro Tools) those turns/presses, then edit/draw/shape them as needed.
Then I will go onto the next PART/MIDI Track. If there are any other PARTs & associated MIDI Tracks in Pro Tools that need to be identical whereby those PARTs should play at the same time, I will do a Copy/Paste of all sequencing from one MIDI Track to all other MIDI Tracks that should be the same. I will do this in Grid Mode so that it snaps in the exact same place as the other Track(s).

Once completed, and if it calls for it, I will record/automate any SuperKnob, Scene changes on Pro Tools MIDI Track 1 with the specific MIDI CC edit window set (SuperKnob CC 95, Scene CC 92).

Then I can play back everything and turn knobs, move Mod Wheels, etc. at the same time. This may require using/setting 'Audio Rec on DAW' in Quick Setup, even if you aren't actually recording it down to an Audio Track.

In the end I will save the MIDI file in Pro Tools, load it into the Montage off of the USB stick, and usually setup the Performance in Live Set, with a Slot Type of 'Song', adding the MIDI sequencing as a Song to Live Set. Then Play the Song & turn dials, wheels, etc. as need be.

Hope some of this helps in some way...

 
Posted : 15/09/2022 3:26 pm
Bad Mister
Posts: 12304
 

In order to keep your MIDI Channel specific messages discreet for what you are attempting, you must be able to filter the Channel messages as they arrive in the DAW Track. One solution would be to upgrade to Cubase Pro (which has the Input Transformer feature). Another would be to use a single Cubase Elements Track set to CH = ANY.

Here’s why: a MIDI Track in your DAW (Cubase Elements) will record all incoming MIDI messages — that means each Cubase MIDI Track is set to receive all channel messages no matter on what MIDI Channel they originate. It is perfectly normal for MIDI messages to include the Channel # as apart of the message. And since most often you only transmit on a single MIDI channel at a time, this normally works fine. But, when you attempt to deal with transmitting on multiple Channels simultaneously, some creative filtering will be necessary.

So each of your 8 Cubase MIDI Tracks include all 8 MIDI Channels of data when your MONTAGE is transmitting on 8 Channels.

The setting for Cubase MIDI Track Channel Out re-channelizes all the data on that Track to a single Channel that you select. This is where the chaos (failure) occurs. It merges 8 channels worth of events into one channel.

What you require is for the dedicated Cubase MIDI Track to behave like the dedicated MONTAGE MIDI Track… you want it to be able to FILTER OUT all but the one MIDI Channel of data concerning that one Part.

For example, Cubase Pro allows you to setup an INPUT TRANSFORMER (that’s a searchable word for more info).

It can be setup to allow only the MIDI messages for the specific channel to be documented to the Track.

If upgrading to Pro is not feasible…
_ In reality a single Cubase Elements MIDI Track set to Channel = ANY would suffice to properly record and playback your data. Try recording and overdubbing your data to a single (as in only one) Cubase Elements Track set to ANY. You should be able to overdub your controllers by simply ensuring you are transmitting on the appropriate MIDI Channel (easy in the MONTAGE as the transmit channel matches the Part number). Moving the MW while only Part 4 is *selected* will only generate messages on Channel 4, make sense? Local Control = Off will send only MW messages on that Channel.

A single MIDI Track can easily house 16 MIDI Channels. And because you want to move specific channel controllers, all you need do is select the appropriate Part on the MONTAGE.

YES, it is far more convenient visually to separate each MIDI Channel to its own Track — and you can do that using the Cubase Elements “MIDI” function > DISSOLVE PARTS > by MIDI Channel.

Your workflow would include separating and merging the data as necessary to accomplish your goal. You can extract data from your single MIDI Track (by channel) work on it, then recombine it, as necessary.

Extra Credit:
__ Every MIDI (Channel) message always includes the Channel # as apart of the message.

__If you play the MONTAGE in real-time and move the MW, the CC01 message is naturally generated on all currently active channels. Whether or not a Part does anything is determined at the receiving, Tone Generator, end. But the MONTAGE (Keyboard) will generate CC01 messages on eight MIDI CHANNELS simultaneously.

Each track in Cubase Elements receives all eight Channels of MW movement. (Not what you want…)

__If you play middle “C” on the MONTAGE, at a velocity of 100 while your eight Part Performance is called up, the following eight messages are generated:

90 3C 64 __ in hexadecimal translates “90” NoteOn/Ch1, “3C” note 60, “64” velocity 100
91 3C 64
92 3C 64
93 3C 64
94 3C 64
95 3C 64
96 3C 64
97 3C 64
These 8 messages in your setup, get recorded to each and every track… and then merged on playback.

To do what you want to do you need have Cubase Pro (and the INPUT TRANSFORMER to filter all but channel 1 messages from entering Cubase MIDI Track 1, and to filter all but channel 2 messages from entering Cubase MIDI Track 2, and so on). By simply activating the MONTAGE Multi Channel Record Template, Cubase Pro will do what you require.

Only “90 3C 64” gets recorded in the DAW Track designated for Channel 1 because the Input Transformer is designed to filter all data but the channel designated.

 
Posted : 15/09/2022 4:52 pm
Gabi
 Gabi
Posts: 0
Estimable Member
Topic starter
 

thank you for your answers.

It was silly to try to do this with 8 Cubase tracks. I finally got what I wanted as a pattern within the Montage!

 
Posted : 16/09/2022 4:43 am
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