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MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
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Topic starter
I have a guitar Part that uses a delay effect, Tempo Delay Stereo.
This used to work just fine. But recently, when I go to a Performance containing this Part, the delay effect does not happen. I have discovered that if I change the Preset to something different and then back to 1/8 Echo, the delay effect then works just fine again.
I tried saving the Performance after changing the Preset, but then when I load the newly saved Performance, there is still the same problem.
I thought that maybe something in my Montage got corrupted, so I Initialized everything and then loaded a backup file to see if that would help. But it didn’t.
I am completely mystified, and would appreciate any help that someone can provide. A zip file containing an X7B file of a Performance containing the guitar Part is attached.
Thanks…
Posted : 18/11/2021 2:53 am
But recently, when I go to a Performance containing this Part, the delay effect does not happen.
? Is that what you provided ? The Performance that doesn’t work?
Well, the file does not work at all, either… try again. (Never had a .X7B that didn’t work? I couldn’t get yours to work.)
Anyway….
If it is stored so that it doesn’t work, why wouldn’t/shouldn’t it be recalled not working. Maybe I’m missing what is happening
Effect Type “Presets” on this Type recall more than just “Delay Time” setting, they also influence “L/R Diffusion”, “Lag”, “Feedback”, “FB High Damp”, “Dry/Wet” balance, and “EQ”.
And, naturally, what an eighth note is equal to will be totally dependent on the Performance Tempo. An 1/8 note at Tempo = 96, is different from an 1/8 note at Tempo 56. When you “go to a Performance…” expect the delay speed to adjust to the Performance Tempo.
Also since there are no details about when or how you “go to a Performance” — do you mean you are recalling the Performance at its HOME location, or are you going to the Performance in a Live Set location or via the Sequencer?
Song Tempo? Performance Tempo? Are they the same? Or somehow are you imposing one on the other (I ask because you recently were moving .mid files back and forth).
Perhaps the reason your attached .X7B file doesn’t work has something to do with the issue.
Posted : 18/11/2021 10:49 am
This is a dump of your X7B file:
00000000 59 41 4d 41 48 41 2d 59 53 46 43 00 00 00 00 00 |YAMAHA-YSFC.....|
00000010 34 2e 30 2e 31 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |4.0.1...........|
00000020 00 00 00 10 ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff |................|
00000030 00 00 00 00 ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff |................|
00000040 45 42 4c 4b 00 00 00 50 44 42 4c 4b 00 00 00 6c |EBLK...PDBLK...l|
00000050 45 42 4c 4b 00 00 00 14 00 00 00 01 45 6e 74 72 |EBLK........Entr|
00000060 00 00 00 08 00 00 00 3f 00 00 00 0c 44 42 4c 4b |.......?....DBLK|
00000070 00 00 00 10 00 00 00 01 44 61 74 61 00 00 00 3f |........Data...?|
00000080 e8 03 00 00 04 00 00 00 00 00 00 01 ea 03 00 00 |................|
00000090 04 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ec 03 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
000000a0 ed 03 00 00 00 00 00 00 e9 03 00 00 07 00 00 00 |................|
000000b0 4d 4f 4e 54 41 47 45 eb 03 00 00 00 00 00 00 |MONTAGE........|
It's not really the right content for a dump file.
Posted : 19/11/2021 1:06 am
Topic starter
This is really scary.
I created the X7B file using Montage Connect’s Save page. I have no idea why Montage Connect is creating the wrong file contents. Given that the file contents are wrong, it’s no surprise that I couldn’t load the X7B file using Montage Connect’s Load page either.
Here’s the Montage Connect version info:
Here’s what I have done so far:
* Factory reset the Montage (all 4 “Initialize” buttons).
* Reloaded firmware 3.51.0.
* Restored most recent backup file.
* Reinstalled Montage Connect 1.1.1 on Windows 10 PC.
Problems still there: X7B file wrong contents, delay effect doesn’t work until I toggle the preset.
* Save Performance in Melas Total Librarian (plibmg) file.
* Factory reset the Montage (all 4 “Initialize” buttons).
* Load Performance from Melas Total Librarian (plibmg) file. This works.
Problems still there: X7B file wrong contents, delay effect doesn’t work until I toggle the preset.
At this point, I have run out of things to try. Something seems really wrong, but I have no idea what.
I’ve included the Melas Total Librarian (plibmg) file in the attached zip file. At least that ought to load.
Posted : 19/11/2021 1:41 am
Not sure what the issue is. You didn't list the Yamaha Steinberg USB Driver. Just to complete the information (at least on the Yamaha side of the fence).
This would be within the dump file (extracted from the melas format file):
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40 00 03 00 00 40 40 7f 32 00 7f 7f 7f 00 04 40
40 18 24 30 3c 48 01 00 01 00 01 00 01 00 40 40
40 40 40 00 00 60 3c 40 00 28 40 40 40 01 00 01
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f0 43 00 7f 1c 00 6b 02 41 60 00 00 00 00 00 01
01 01 00 40 00 40 40 00 00 7f 01 7f 00 00 00 00
00 00 01 00 00 00 03 7f 7f 00 00 00 00 00 00 07
0b 00 00 7f 40 00 03 00 00 40 40 7f 32 00 7f 7f
7f 00 04 40 40 18 24 30 3c 48 01 00 01 00 01 00
01 00 40 40 40 40 40 00 00 60 3c 40 00 28 40 40
40 01 00 01 00 01 00 01 00 01 00 54 04 40 40 02
40 3c 40 f7 f0 43 00 7f 1c 00 6b 02 41 70 00 00
00 00 00 01 01 01 00 40 00 40 40 00 00 7f 01 7f
00 00 00 00 00 00 01 00 00 00 03 7f 7f 00 00 00
00 00 00 07 0b 00 00 7f 40 00 03 00 00 40 40 7f
32 00 7f 7f 7f 00 04 40 40 18 24 30 3c 48 01 00
01 00 01 00 01 00 40 40 40 40 40 00 00 60 3c 40
00 28 40 40 40 01 00 01 00 01 00 01 00 01 00 54
04 40 40 02 40 3c 30 f7 f0 43 00 7f 1c 00 4a 02
42 00 00 01 01 08 4f 00 1c 40 00 00 00 01 00 01
71 00 3a 41 41 15 01 7f 01 48 01 1d 01 00 01 00
5c 00 40 7f 02 4b 3c 24 4f 54 67 01 00 01 00 01
00 01 00 4f 40 00 00 00 76 46 01 4f 40 01 00 00
24 00 00 00 00 00 7f 7f 00 06 f7 f0 43 00 7f 1c
00 4a 02 42 10 00 01 01 16 4f 00 1a 40 00 00 00
01 00 01 71 00 43 42 40 15 01 7f 01 48 01 1d 01
00 01 00 5c 00 40 4d 02 49 3c 24 4f 54 67 01 00
01 00 01 00 01 00 4f 40 00 00 00 76 47 01 4f 40
01 00 00 24 00 00 00 00 00 7f 7f 00 14 f7 f0 43
00 7f 1c 00 4a 02 42 20 00 04 01 50 56 00 10 40
00 00 00 01 00 01 7f 00 0a 56 54 18 01 00 01 7f
01 47 00 60 00 60 55 01 65 7f 02 5b 28 3a 44 57
64 01 00 01 00 01 00 01 00 4a 40 00 00 00 69 46
01 71 47 01 00 15 19 00 00 00 15 00 7f 00 00 1a
f7 f0 43 00 7f 1c 00 4a 02 42 30 00 04 01 20 40
00 00 40 00 00 00 01 00 01 66 00 00 40 40 50 01
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24 30 3c 48 01 00 01 00 01 00 01 00 4a 40 00 00
00 36 40 01 67 40 01 01 00 26 00 00 00 00 00 7f
7f 7f 3e f7 f0 43 00 7f 1c 00 4a 02 42 40 00 04
01 20 40 00 00 40 00 00 00 01 00 01 66 00 00 40
40 50 01 00 01 7f 01 7f 01 7f 01 00 68 04 40 40
02 40 18 24 30 3c 48 01 00 01 00 01 00 01 00 4a
40 00 00 00 36 40 01 67 40 01 01 00 26 00 00 00
00 00 7f 7f 7f 2e f7 f0 43 00 7f 1c 00 4a 02 42
50 00 04 01 20 40 00 00 40 00 00 00 01 00 01 66
00 00 40 40 50 01 00 01 7f 01 7f 01 7f 01 00 68
04 40 40 02 40 18 24 30 3c 48 01 00 01 00 01 00
01 00 4a 40 00 00 00 36 40 01 67 40 01 01 00 26
00 00 00 00 00 7f 7f 7f 1e f7 f0 43 00 7f 1c 00
4a 02 42 60 00 04 01 20 40 00 00 40 00 00 00 01
00 01 66 00 00 40 40 50 01 00 01 7f 01 7f 01 7f
01 00 68 04 40 40 02 40 18 24 30 3c 48 01 00 01
00 01 00 01 00 4a 40 00 00 00 36 40 01 67 40 01
01 00 26 00 00 00 00 00 7f 7f 7f 0e f7 f0 43 00
7f 1c 00 4a 02 42 70 00 04 01 20 40 00 00 40 00
00 00 01 00 01 66 00 00 40 40 50 01 00 01 7f 01
7f 01 7f 01 00 68 04 40 40 02 40 18 24 30 3c 48
01 00 01 00 01 00 01 00 4a 40 00 00 00 36 40 01
67 40 01 01 00 26 00 00 00 00 00 7f 7f 7f 7e f7
f0 43 00 7f 1c 00 04 02 0f 25 00 4a f7
EDIT: corrected issue dumping my clipboard to the message. Above is now corrected.
Posted : 19/11/2021 3:15 am
Topic starter
Yamaha Steinberg USB Driver: 2.0.4
Jason, what do you think the hex dump is showing?
I just tried restoring older backups. The one from October 21 had the same delay effect problem. The one from August 1 seems to be OK. So whatever got corrupted may have been between those two dates.
But Montage Connect is still not working right.
I am done for the day. Maybe tomorrow I will try reinstalling the Yamaha Steinberg USB Driver. But I am really just poking around in the dark with a white cane at this point.
Posted : 19/11/2021 4:30 am
Reinstalling things is an activity, but if there was a hint of an indication that this had anything to do with the driver it would be a good activity. But it really doesn’t. Stop initializing and reinstalling (you worry me with (all 4 “initialize” buttons…) what “4 initialize buttons” ?
I doubt highly they have anything to do with your issue. You’re doing this so much, you’re thinking there are 4. Stop, please. You’ve done that… it didn’t fix anything. You can Stop… try the following instead
Things to try INSTEAD of re-initializing everything again and again
__ Try instead to download a .X7B File from this site (any of the Mastering MONTAGE tutorial articles) see if you can successfully LOAD it from MONTAGE CONNECT. Let us know.
__ Try to create a .X7B File from the Preset “CFX + FM EP” and then zip and post it.
If this works… this eliminates the driver, any of the “initialize” functions, bad cables, hubs, routing, all of that — and points to the real issue which must be something in the programming of that particular Performance.
Also compare the size of your .X7B file with any of those that successfully LOAD.
Is there a large difference in data size? Let us know
Then describe what is different about your setup… any hubs, unique creative Routing, etc. are you using a USB cable going directly from the MONTAGE to the computer (eliminate everything in between). Any 5-pin MIDI cables involved anywhere?
Is the “Motion Wah Guitar” Performance in your instrument (ie, STORED to a Performance) or is it not yet STORED to the User Bank?
__ Try running MONTAGE CONNECT as a standalone application (perhaps your configuration into Cubase is suspect)… eliminate it from the equation. Are you filtering sysex?
Repeat Questions:
Are you recalling the Performance at its HOME location, or are you going to the Performance in a Live Set location or via the Sequencer?
Song Tempo? Performance Tempo? Are they the same? Or somehow are you imposing one on the other (I ask because you recently were moving .mid files back and forth). What attributes are you Exporting when Export MIDI Files?
Posted : 19/11/2021 10:55 am
Jason, what do you think the hex dump is showing?
First, I have to say the last previous dump (of the extracted portion of the Melas file) had a few issues. Repeated data was represented with an "*" so I fixed that and also fixed a problem I had with the initial cut/paste which initially took the start from the wrong offset. Now - answering the question - the hex dump is the SYSEX data which is what a full bulk dump would return if you did bulk dumps manually of this Performance. That is the data contained within an X7B too (X7B has extra header/footer information in addition to the bulk dump data). Similar to the Melas format which itself also has header/footer data around the bulk dump. I'm not saying to do this but adding the expected header/footer to this dump would generate a valid X7B. Or using a Sysex transfer tool (such as MIDI OX) to send this data to Montage directly would restore your performance.
None of this solves your root issue of problems generating valid X7B files using Montage Connect. I'm just provided the missing part from your X7B.
The hex dump of your X7B (maybe you were asking about that hex dump) I posted first is missing the bulk dump information. Missing the portion I described above. Taking a second look, otherwise it looks "OK". The tool is exporting the header/footer that would normally surround the Sysex bulk dump.
What this leads to me to is more of wondering what could be keeping your Montage from "allowing" bulk dumps. There's a configuration for this - so check your setup.
Check [UTILITY] "Settings" -> "Advanced" and take a look at the "MIDI" line which includes a few Bulk parameters. The way I read it "Bulk Receive" shouldn't prevent a bulk transmit. But still - something that can be looked at. The bulk interval does have an impact on the dump transmitted from Montage. Note that the device number has an impact on bulk dumps as well. Since device number needs to match between the requesting side and Montage. Normally, Montage would be configured to respond to any device number (set to "ALL" ). Make sure this is not set to "OFF".
This would explain why some backups work and some don't. Backups will change your system settings ([UTILITY] configured settings). One backup may have these settings such that your Montage cannot communicate while another backup has these set appropriately to communicate.
At this point I don't suspect this as a PC-side issue. I think the software stack is OK. This looks like a Montage setting (system configuration) issue that you see changing between different backups. At some point I'm guessing you experimented with device number or other settings that prevent your Montage from communicating with Montage Connect.
For reference, see below. Ignore the orange boxes since I lifted this from another message focused on something else. It shows the screen where the above [UTILITY] settings are that can impact bulk dumps. The "MIDI" row has appropriate values to compare against (they are as default).
MIDI: Device Number = All
MIDI: Bank Select = ON (probably not involved here - but needed for MIDI change of Performances)
MIDI: Pgm Change = ON (ditto)
MIDI: Receive Bulk = ON (probably not involved here, but required for sending an X7B file TO your Montage for updating). The problem you are communicating is a problem with reading FROM your Montage. However, check this as this would block writing TO your Montage for X7B in the reverse direction.
MIDI: Bulk Interval = 0ms (unlikely to be a source of issue - I would keep at 0ms and only experiment here if all else fails. The addition of delays is meant to help a device requesting a dump from overflowing due to data coming in too fast to process)
Posted : 19/11/2021 12:26 pm
Topic starter
Thanks for all of these suggestions. I am very happy to have your help figuring this out.
These are the four “Initialize“ buttons I was talking about:
I just downloaded P3.X7B from Mastering MONTAGE: An FM-X Exploration Part 2. I attempted to load it to my Montage using standalone Montage Connect. It did not work. All that appears on my Montage when I try that is “Now transmitting MIDI bulk data.” There is no message about receiving data.
I just used standalone Montage Connect to create an X7B file of “CFX + FM EP”. It’s attached to this post. When I try to load it to my Montage, it doesn’t work in the same way that every other X7B file doesn’t work. The X7B file that I created is about the same size as the one I downloaded from the Mastering Montage article.
The connection from my Montage to my PC goes first through a USB A to B switch and then through a USB hub. This has been my setup for years.
The Performance tempo when I first ran into this problem was 92. No Song was involved, just a Pattern.
The Motion Wah Guitar Performance is stored in a slot in user memory.
I will try all of this with a direct cable connection from the Montage to the PC in an hour or so after I participate in a Zoom meeting from work.
Posted : 20/11/2021 12:18 am
Michael,
I think you zipped the wrong data - when I unzip your file named “cfx_mp_ep.zip”
It contains the data from the FM-Xplorations Part 2 article…”P3”, which, of course, LOADs just fine.
Posted : 20/11/2021 1:31 am
Topic starter
I just connected my Montage to the PC with a single USB cable. I used standalone Montage Connect to save “CFX + FM EP”. The first time I tried it, I got a 191 byte X7B file. The second time I tried it, I got a 82,229 byte X7B file. Perhaps that difference in file sizes was a result of changing the USB connection without rebooting the Montage, but I doubt it.
Posted : 20/11/2021 1:42 am
Topic starter
Just tried a different USB cable. Consistently getting 191 bytes.
Posted : 20/11/2021 1:51 am
When I SAVE “CFX + FM EP” I get a file that is 26KB
Posted : 20/11/2021 2:02 am
Topic starter
Jason,
I just checked the Advanced settings you mentioned. On my Montage they are currently:
Device Number: ALL
Bank Select: ON
Pgm Change: ON
Receive Bulk: ON
Bulk Interval: 0ms
The Montage Connect problem is happening with these settings.
Posted : 20/11/2021 2:18 am
Topic starter
When I SAVE “CFX + FM EP” I get a file that is 26KB
Can you check the exact file size? On Windows you would select the file and hit alt-Enter.
Posted : 20/11/2021 2:19 am
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