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  1. david
  2. Vanity Monster Sherlock Holmes The Voice
  3. YC61 Stage Keyboard
  4. Wednesday, 14 October 2020
So I literally log onto the forum daily in anticipation of YC61 OS update but then I see a monsterous advertisement for yet another CP OS update.

Really? I think what I will start doing is not buying any Yamaha products until the OS has been updated by about the 4th time or so.

I had been through everything on the YC by about the first month. If only I knew what was coming but I'm selling mine now.

Support likely depends on produce popularity and not so much on secrecy to stay one step ahead of the competition.

If it's not popular then service will be placed at the end of the priority list. CP is apparently doing better and I know it's been out longer but still.
Responses (8)
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I bought a rebrub Fantom like new for almost what I paid for the YC.

The Fantom is a workstation, sampler, sequencer, drum machine w/pads, arranger, stage keyboard, synth, analog system with miles of balanced I/Os etc.

I've owned the Genos and Montage and I think Roland engineers gathered the complaints of Yamaha users in the forums and then incorporated all of that into this unit.

Nice strategy to provide what Yamaha did not. It resembles both the Montage and the Genos. I think all 16 parts are also available in real time. Still learning it.

I probably have no good reason to keep the YC or Montage now.
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Without taking any "pressure" off the engineers to redo the rotary, I would be happy with an interim OS update that, among other fixes suggested on IdeaScale, 1) allowed hard panning of the organ and keys to one side and the other so you could use a Neo Vent, etc more practically and 2) allow the source signal to be removed from the outputs so you could run a 100% computer processed signal returned from the USB Audio feed (a "kill dry" as someone called it on an idea posted for the CP)...this would allow someone to use a computer-based rotary sim like the IK TR-5 (this is what I'm doing currently but I have to use an outboard USB audio device). That coupled with a "we're working on it" for the internal rotary sim might be something to consider.
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I heard the original Montage rotary sim at a launch presentation. It was not good! Glad to hear it's been improved since.

The YC61 launch information made much of the 'new' Rotary Sim. The reality turned out to be somewhat different.

Yamaha have clearly made an attempt to try and copy the two independent rotor concept ... they have included separate acceleration and deceleration controls - independent speed settings, and different level settings for each rotor. So the intention to try and copy the features of external pedals - like the Neo Vent 2 - is clearly there.

This initial version however suggests that launch date pressures permitted a 'half finished' implementation to be included ...
• The crossover frequency between the two rotors is not well defined. The lower rotor is very weak.
• The acceleration limits appear to use completely arbitrary figures - between '0.2' and '2.00' ( they seem to bear no resemblance to any time settings -- '2.00' is the fastest!) and the slowest acceleration setting for the lower rotor is still not up to speed after 2 minutes !
• Worst of all is the much complained about 'beat' frequency present on the fast rotor. That is really not good at all!

As I say, it's almost as if there wasn't time to 'finish things' before launch?...

It must be affecting sales? I'm one of those who has 'bitten the bullet' and added a Neo Vent 2 to my YC61 - to restore my sanity. It makes a massive difference!

If Yamaha do manage to get somewhere near the Neo Vent 2 sound, then they have a killer keyboard on their hands, in my opinion.
There are many features to like about the YC61. The rotary sim is currently not one of them :)
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
There's a longer history than YC61 that the rotary speaker simulation from Yamaha is lacking. Even Yamaha's own demo star and content creator (presets) has expressed that the rotary speaker (in Montage) is so lacking that an external pedal from not-Yamaha is the preferred solution. This was with the first pass of rotary speaker in Montage. Many months later a new rotary speaker effect emerged - improved. So what's available to YC61 was already some attempt to squeeze some juice out of the lemon.

I do hope that focus on a keyboard that is more organ-centric would make "world class" the goal rather than "good enough for occasional use". We'll see. BTW: if the rotary speaker in YC61 is different/enhanced vs. Montage - I'm not sure or implying it is or is not the same. Just that engineers had already invested in the modeling and responded to similar complaints in that platform -- so that work is in the toolbox already for YC61.

All of that aside - I think given the timeline, it's a little early to call foul on the amount of firmware releases YC is seeing as of yet. If something like rotary speaker is something I want updated - it's not something that necessarily benefits from a rush job.
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I think there may be a further distinction here ..
The CP OS updates are all 'significant digit' updates. 1.20 - 1.30 - 1.40 whereas the only (tiny) YC61 OS update so far is '1.02'.
Hopefully the next ( which is pretty much due, I would have thought?) will be '1.20' rather than '1.03'.

From the comments here - and indeed on Yamaha's own 'Ideascale' forum - the much heralded rotary speaker sim is in need of serious improvement.
Maybe it's that which is causing the delay?... It's not trivial task, creating decent 'Leslie' sims. :)

Of course, the Yamaha reps are still suggesting 'have you tried changing the settings?' and don't comment further after you reply 'yes'.
Understandable of course - you don't bite the hand that feeds you - but they haven't got cloth ears, and will undoubtedly have raised the issue with the development engineers.

At the moment, it's a bit like the 'Montage doesn't need a sequencer' saga. Once Yamaha finally realised that sales had probably been quite seriously compromised with that omission, the 'totally unnecessary' sequencer duly arrived!

Maybe the engineers are having trouble actually updating the rotary sim software effectively? .... Hopefully they'll sort it out soon.
I feel sure that - like the missing Montage sequencer - the current YC61 rotary sim must be costing sales...So there's probably some pressure on the engineers, behind the scenes...:)
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I get it, but they're on different timelines. They have enough differences that it's not similar enough to be "like" MODX/Montage. And even still, if you look at two keyboards with essentially all the same stuff (MODX and Montage) - features were not launched at the same time. MODX didn't pick up DAW remote control for a long time. MODX still doesn't have the Motif XF sound set (and, I suppose, may never). Even when the keyboards are very, very, very close - you still do not see temporal proximity with releases of features.
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
One similarity that should place the YC tracking much faster is that I think the brain is the same as the CP series.

So the CP series had to be development over time whereas the YC not so much.

I'll bet they can almost "cut and paste" from CP into YC in a sense & if not directly then pretty close.
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
YC61 Launch Date January 2020
... first available for purchase sometime after that
YC61 1.02 Update 04/23/2020

CP73/88 Lauched January 2019
1.10 Update January 2019 (basically close to launch update)
1.20 Update 09/23/2019
1.30 Update 01/16/2020
1.40 Update 09/27/2020

If I ignore the CP practically day 1 firmware update - then I would say YC's firmware updates are exactly tracking the CP's releases. At this time in the CP's life - there was essentially one firmware update past launch and January was the next update. The NAMM release cycle.

The fact that CP is more mature also means there's more user feedback. That could come into play.

Ignoring that it seems the firmware releases are "the same" as CP if you compare the 1st year of CP to YC - also there's the reality that CP's first year did not intersect with certain realities that kept engineers out of the labs (and develop new processes for dealing with these factors).

I'm not sure comparing year 2 of CP to year 1 of YC is apples to apples.
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