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  1. CassieDennis
  2. Sherlock Holmes
  3. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  4. Monday, 16 September 2019
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Responses (23)
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Thank you Cassie for the announcement ;)
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 1
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This streaming video event will feature new product announcements

Exciting.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 2
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I hope to find an update of the Montage firmware with one or more synthesis engines of the survey that was sent a few months ago:D
I always hope that finally Yamaha will make available to everyone the possibility of using User Multisamples in the LossLess format, so as to double their duration (it would go from 338 minutes to more than 650-700 minutes with 16bit samples@44.1 KHz)
http://www.benis.it/varie/toneGenerators.JPG
  1. more than a month ago
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  3. # 3
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@Benedetto - there is likely already audio data compression that gets applied on user samples when loaded: http://sandsoftwaresound.net/montage-wave-memory/
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 4
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No!!! :D
The Montage wave memory consists of four Spansion S34ML08G101TFI000 8Gbit with a total physical capacity of 4GBytes. 1.75 GByte is the flash ROM for User Samples and 2,25 GByte for ROM/Presets Sample (4GB-1.75=2,25 GB).
Yamaha uses proprietary LOSSLESS 16-bit LPC (linear predictive coding) sample compression (1:2 - 1:3 Ratio) in their tone generator chips and in and in many of their sample libraries. This technology has been used since the days of MOXF and MOTIF.
In Montage 2,25 GByte for ROM/Presets Sample with this compression are equivalent to 5.67 GB when converted to 16 bit linear format.
In some samples libraries Yamaha uses this loseless audio compression:
Chick's Mark V; Compressed 423.5MB Linear data = 1.1 GB Ratio 1:2,59
Bösendorfer Piano; Compressed 413 MB Linear data : unknown :-)
You can know if a library uses compressed or non-compressed samples, just open it with the Melas software (MontageWave64 v1.2.1): the format WXC is displayed instead of WAV
The tools package of "lossless compression" is not public and only distributed to 3rd party sampling houses: for example it is used in the library American Grand Synthogy.
My request is to allow all Montage users to have this tool so they can convert a library into the compressed format. I would also be willing to pay an additional license, obviously at a reasonable cost :-)
Now, without LossLess compression with mono samples 16bit and SR=44.100 Hz, in 1.75 Gb, it is possible to load samples with a total duration of 20317 seconds (338,6 min= 5,6 hours). With LossLess compression the duration would double. it would have a capacity equivalent at least to 3.5 GB when converted to 16 bit linear format
I submitted this request about a year ago: https://yamahasynth.ideascale.com/a/dtd/Lossless-audio-compression-double-the-user-Flash-sampling-time/208088-45978
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 5
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Devil's advocate: how do you know that the Montage/MODX don't compress user waves internally but still calculate the remaining memory as if they were still uncompressed wavs? ;)

OK, that may be unlikely but we know so little about what happens inside the SWP70.

Also, it's interesting that KApro's free CS80 library are uncompressed waves.
  1. more than a month ago
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  3. # 6
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
"Michel : Devil's advocate: how do you know that the Montage/MODX don't compress user waves internally but still calculate the remaining memory as if they were still uncompressed wavs?"
The 1.75 GByte is a real FlashRam dimension for User Samples, which can also be completely filled with lossless compressed samples. I tried to load 3 libraries all made with compressed samples, American Grand Synthogy (638 MB), Bosendorfer (423 MB) , Chick's Mark V (418 MB), and analyzing the free space remains exactly as expected (271 MB). If were as you say, the space would run out much sooner, and it would be impossible to load the 3 compressed libraries, which in the example correspond to at least 3 GByte 16 bit linear format equivalent
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 7
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Regardless of reporting - the fact remains that users do not have the capacity to create any encoded waveforms and different encodings can achieve greater compression ratios. Encodings can have lots of parameters so some of this stuff is not the most "user friendly". Along with the problem of Yamaha wanting to contain the IP. It's easier to make binding contracts with known partners than the "unknown" public.

I agree it would be great to have the keys to the city - but it's an uphill battle. You may have better luck contacting a content provider that has released compressed samples and see if you can pay for having them package your custom user content. Not likely to make it far with that - but slightly more likely than getting your hands on the content processing tools.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 8
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a new V3 featuring AN+VL would be very nice
  1. more than a month ago
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  3. # 9
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Jason - Regardless of reporting - the fact remains that users do not have the capacity to create any encoded waveforms and different encodings can achieve greater compression ratios

Lossless codecs because they maintain the quality unchanged (by definition :D ) they do not need parameters to be set as for mp3 or similar. They are designed and optimized for waveforms and achieve excellent compression values for sounds with decay (piano, vibes, EP, ..) while saving fewer bytes for sounds much more similar to noise (no correlation and predictability). A classic example is the FLAC codec. Nord provides its users with a software that, without any parameters to set, stores the multisamples directly in LossLess format: it is the Nord Sample Editor that among other things anyone can try.
Yamaha itself may also decide to enable a paid online service for conversion.
I still believe that doubling the sampling time is anything but a small addition :D
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 10
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Do you know if one need to be logged in to Facebook to watch the live streams? I do not have an facebook account but would like to be able to take part.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 11
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"Michel : Devil's advocate: how do you know that the Montage/MODX don't compress user waves internally but still calculate the remaining memory as if they were still uncompressed wavs?"
The 1.75 GByte is a real FlashRam dimension for User Samples, which can also be completely filled with lossless compressed samples. I tried to load 3 libraries all made with compressed samples, American Grand Synthogy (638 MB), Bosendorfer (423 MB) , Chick's Mark V (418 MB), and analyzing the free space remains exactly as expected (271 MB). If were as you say, the space would run out much sooner, and it would be impossible to load the 3 compressed libraries, which in the example correspond to at least 3 GByte 16 bit linear format equivalent


You misunderstood - I was talking about the small possibility of user waves being compressed internally but still reported as using their uncompressed size. This has nothing to do with WXC compressed samples.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 12
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Do you know if one need to be logged in to Facebook to watch the live streams? I do not have an facebook account but would like to be able to take part.


Hi, I also have this same question on behalf of some 'net friends who "do not do Facbook" (I have it as a necessary evil for band promotion, keeping up with remote friends and family, and to watch cute kitten videos when I am really, really bored ;) ). Is Facebook the only means to watch these live streams? If so, will the information eventually become more generally available via other mediums?
  1. more than a month ago
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  3. # 13
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Facebook?
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 14
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Facebook?


I do understand that my question sounded wierd but it's due to the fact I got an email from Ideascale regarding this event which I interpret as a broadcast through facebook.

I failed to read the full announcement posted in this thread believing it to basically be the same.

Ideascale message for reference:
"
Hello from Yamaha,

On September 22-23, the Yamaha Synth team will be broadcasting from Yamaha HQ in Hamamatsu Japan. The broadcast will feature new product updates, announcements, artist performances, demos, interviews and a tour of "Innovation Road" – a living history of all Yamaha products.

The broadcast will begin on September 22 at 1 p.m. CEST (11:00 UTC) for European viewers; the second block will begin September 22 at 1 p.m. PDT (20:00 UTC) for North and South American audiences and then finally the third at 1 p.m. JST (04:00 UTC) on September 23 for viewers on and around the Pacific coast of Asia. The first two blocks will largely be in English while the final one will largely be in Japanese.

Tune-in at http://facebook.com/yamahasynths.
"
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 15
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Facebook?


Yup. This is what I had in my inbox (see the bold line)

Hello from Yamaha,

On September 22-23, the Yamaha Synth team will be broadcasting from Yamaha HQ in Hamamatsu Japan. The broadcast will feature new product updates, announcements, artist performances, demos, interviews and a tour of "Innovation Road" – a living history of all Yamaha products.

The broadcast will begin on September 22 at 1 p.m. CEST (11:00 UTC) for European viewers; the second block will begin September 22 at 1 p.m. PDT (20:00 UTC) for North and South American audiences and then finally the third at 1 p.m. JST (04:00 UTC) on September 23 for viewers on and around the Pacific coast of Asia. The first two blocks will largely be in English while the final one will largely be in Japanese.

Tune-in at http://facebook.com/yamahasynths.

Sincerely,
Ben Israel
R&D Planning Manager
Yamaha


So the question remains are there other means to see this event for those not on Facebook?
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 16
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I’m sure it will be like most of the Live Stream events, (NAMM, Super Booth, Launch events) where they will be archived for viewing here on this site shortly after the live feed is finished. It’s a big deal 45th Anniversary of Synthesizers... I’m quite sure if you can’t view it live, you’ll have plenty of opportunity to view it later.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 17
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I’m sure it will be like most of the Live Stream events, (NAMM, Super Booth, Launch events) where they will be archived for viewing here on this site shortly after the live feed is finished. It’s a big deal 45th Anniversary of Synthesizers... I’m quite sure if you can’t view it live, you’ll have plenty of opportunity to view it later.


I don't doubt that the information will trickle down sooner or later and that might be the option for me then.

Thank you for responding, BM.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 18
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Typically, YouTube is where you’ll usually find the videos from such events posted. If you can’t catch it “Live” look for it on YouTube shortly after the event.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 19
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I’m sure it will be like most of the Live Stream events, (NAMM, Super Booth, Launch events) where they will be archived for viewing here on this site shortly after the live feed is finished. It’s a big deal 45th Anniversary of Synthesizers... I’m quite sure if you can’t view it live, you’ll have plenty of opportunity to view it later.


Thanks. I probably won't be in at that time anyway, so good to know and I will pass this on to answer the query about how people who don't have FB can access it.
  1. more than a month ago
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  3. # 20
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