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  1. David
  2. The Voice
  4. Sunday, 10 July 2016
Anyone experienced this? Last night we’re playing a rock show and I experienced multiple times (in Perf Mode) unexplained changes to my Performances as I was playing:

1. During a Solo (stage cleared so I’m isolated) i was playing a solo that has a thick layering of amp distortion organ JP saw. Midway in my solo the performance changed to a clean organ. I think the JP Saw went out. I repressed the Performance number and it restored.

2. During another performance, one of the voices seemed to disappear. Again, i pressed that Perf number and it restored.

this happened maybe 4 or 5 times during the 2 hr show. I’ve never had a hardware glitch before with my XF (now 4 yrs old), has anyone experienced anything like this? I was a rock show, so I was “playing” but I don’t think I pound that hard, not like some players I know.

I know one of the performance voices was reading off the flash board for a WF, but I don’t think every instance last night can be linked to a FL1/User voice.

We’re rockers - we pulled it off. But really odd (slightly unsettling) behavior I’ve never seen before. Has anyone else experienced anything like this? any recommendations?
Responses (7)
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  1. more than a month ago
  3. # 1
Bad Mister
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Apparently, no one has. Sounds very strange, especially since recalling the Program fixed it. I could understand if it was the INSERT EFFECT ON/OFF buttons perhaps being hit, but that seems unlikely since recalling the Program restored what you expected.

Now that you are not on stage (less adrenalin) see if you can repeat this anomaly and determine what exactly occurred. You say you had "a thick layering of amp distortion organ JP saw" - I have no idea what that means exactly, I'm sure you do, :) can you break that down?

how many Parts is that?
what controllers are involved in interacting with your Insertion Effects?

I'm thinking that a controller, or controllers, involved in interacting with your Insertion Effects got moved during your rocking out, this would explain why recalling the Performance restored the distortion effect.

Begin by checking which physical controllers are assigned to control your INSERT EFFECTS.

Let us know.
  1. more than a month ago
  3. # 2
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Thanks BM, you're the rock. I knew you'd show up for me :)

The "thick layer" is 2 voices - one is an 80s rock organ - I think its from Dave's VK library so PS WVs but I add amp distortion effect to the voice. The second is a JP detuned saw synth with the CO filter opened up to sound more 80s rock crunchy, that second voice uses a WF on FL1. Both voices run through a (same) delay effect at the Perf level to sound like the intro to this (not that it matters) link:

Let It Rock Intro ... first minute or so of the track.

I was not "using" any physical controllers on the intro except the pitch bend at the very start. The glitch happened about 20 seconds later. however I don't know something isn't mapped to a controller I may have "bumped". Don't think so but who knows, it was a rock show :). similar thing happened at two more times when I'm sure my only contact with the board was my fingertips to keys (i was playing).

weird. Someone over at KC with a MOXF said something odd like that happened to him once with a voice reading FL1. it happened 2 or 3 yrs ago and never happened again to him, he's gigging almost every week.

This week I'm prepping my new MOXF6 (using my custom XF library I ported over, thank you Yamaha!), I have a fly-in show in Texas. won't have time to look at it till next week. Next week is a Ziggy show, I'll rehearse on it all week and if I get more than a glitch, i'll either bring my MOXF as backup or switch to the MOXF for the show and call in a tech. I suspect if I took it in today he'd call me later that day "its fine, I can't find anything wrong" lol

the idea of a physical controller triggering changes is intriguing. I will check mappings for curiosity and keep monitoring. will report back. Board is now approaching 5 yo, which is not old at all. I don't gig 5 nights a week, not even 5 nights a month, and I don't play it that much except to prep for gigs.

I was thinking maybe the FL1 isn't secured tight, I had taken it out for a fly-in show with a backlined board a couple months ago. i'll check that too.
  1. more than a month ago
  3. # 3
Bad Mister
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I would eliminate the FL1 almost immediately. It has nothing whatever to do with an effect being bypassed.
What you need to do is recreate the problem. You initially described it as "one of the voices seemed to disappear"
Try to do that on purpose, turn one of the Parts OFF, recreate the sound you were getting.

Unlikely a FL1 waveform would stop communicating and be restored simply by recalling the program. Now if it disappeared it would likely stop communicating entirely. No, the fact you were able to recover so simply highly points to something more simple and something you can avoid.

I wish I could follow all your abbreviations above but I think I get the overall concept of what your saying even if I cannot try specifically what you're talking about specifically

I tried Google translate: "The "thick layer" is 2 voices - one is an 80s rock organ - I think its from Dave's VK library so PS WVs but I add amp distortion effect to the voice. The second is a JP detuned saw synth with the CO filter opened up to sound more 80s rock crunchy, that second voice uses a WF on FL1. Both voices run through a (same) delay effect at the Perf level to sound like the intro to this (not that it matters)

What's PS WVs?
What's CO filter
What delay (Chorus Send? I presume)?

If you tried to recreate what actually went missing and then returned when you recalled the program you'd have the biggest clue to your mystery. Check the Voices CONTROL SETS, check the RECEIVE SWITCHES, perhaps the volume of one of the Parts was reduced to 0. That would explain it retuning when you recalled the program.
  1. more than a month ago
  3. # 4
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
LOL, sorry for the codes, So MOXF6 is an awesome lightweight keyboard made by ... oh, not that one? I of course always assume you understand everything, being the all knowing all seeing guru you are :)

Dave's VK = Vintage Keys library. It uses only preset waveforms (hence no FL1 possible influence).
KC = Keyboard Corner - a forum run by Keyboard Magazine,
PS WVs - Preset waveforms (vs FL1).
JP Detuned - its an emulation of a typical Roland Jupiter 80s saw synth voice. I think I got if from Inspirations in a Flash originally
CO = cutoff filter
Delay = yes, its from the Performance level Chorus Send effect options. Hence both parts get the same delay effect settings

Will do on all your ideas - thanks.

I found a posted link - next post - you can hear it switch at about 0:50 and see my response. I hear a rotary (leslie) effect come in, which raises an intriguing set of clues pointing me at my modwheel:

- I'm 95% sure that organ sound has a leslie effect tied to the modwheel (not positive, but don't they almost all, eh?)
- the JP voice is programmed so as the ModWheel value goes up, it turns down the Cutoff Freq (making it seem to "disappear" if its layered with a louder part)
- the song right before this solo, I raise up the modwheel to about 60% rotation for an LFO pitch effect. I likely left it there at that spot.

I'm only contacting keys when this "leslie" effect kicks in (no intended button, knob, or wheel contact), but I did "hit" those last few 5ths for audience effect. So modwheel is a possibility. I could turn off modwheel on the parts control sets in every performance except the one aforementioned. If it happens again, I'll know that wasn't it. and, it may never happen again - my XF has been a rock and as you know I'm a big (becoming at 5 yrs longtime) fan.

I practiced a different (Bowie) set on the XF last night for about 80 minutes, no similar event occurred once. I don't use modwheel in that set, though I imagine control set has all of them set to active. Actually, I do use modwheel to raise up some chorus in a piano part. no glitch all night.

I also did call up that particular Performance in the video link (next post), it didn't happen again there either when I ran through it 4 times. Will delve deeper next week, thanks again.
  1. more than a month ago
  3. # 5
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
video link didn't work - here's the URL

Video Link
  1. more than a month ago
  3. # 6
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
hey Phil - I'm now 95% sure it was the modwheel. I manually moved the modwheel up to around 60% and it replicates the sound change I heard performing. And at this point in the show I did have the modwheel sitting at about this same position (left there from the prior song).

don't know why the MW triggered a position signal without being touched yet. I'm sure I didn't contact the wheel at that moment, as I'm holding a 5th octave chord with my left hand. short term its easy to turn off MW in the control set. I'll monitor to see if the modwheel is starting to misbehave. relieved that worst case its something relatively simple. someone told me a way to run diagnostics, i'm not sure if diagnostic will find this intermittent "glitch", but I'll run it sometime in the future. no time for now.


Meanwhile ... this weekend I took my new MOXF6 airborne for its first gig in Texas. Love that lil monster!!! Same great sound (I transferred my XF customized library - love that it was compatible!). Verdict - Sounds great, less filling (thru the airport, at check in = free, dragging thru hotel and on to sound check ...). and despite laments from self-declared experts, I love the keybed. its fantastic and perfect for my style of play. Its just a great travel board!

The entire band loved it, sound techs said my sounds were fantastic. Crowd went off ... social media has been lit up the last two days with attendees we dont even know (as we're not from texax) posting their great feedback. just a great show! Yamaha kills!
  1. more than a month ago
  3. # 7
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