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  1. dave
  2. Sherlock Holmes
  3. MODX
  4. Monday, 23 March 2020
Hi All,

I just loaded in the MODX Libraries which I got through the Yamaha website - Montage Expanded and Motif XF Performances.

The Montage Library once loaded, appears under the Live Set View - you need to tap through many blank User pages to get there, however the Motif library doesn't appear under Live Sets - you have to go to the Category Search page.

I'm just wondering, if they are both library files why they wouldn't store in exactly the same fashion?

Dave
Responses (8)
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
It is completely up to the author/programmer whether they wish to create a Live Set.
Live Sets are generally made by the performer... based on those they want to use on stage.

Make your own. They are simply the same programs provided by the Library listed in a particular order.

Just what is a “Live Set”
A Live Set is a set list. You are better off creating your own Live Sets — it is so quick and easy to do. A better question is why do some programmers feel the necessity to make a set list for you... when only you will know which programs will be your favorite and where you would place them in your set. In reality, it would be unlikely that all of the entries into a real working Live Set would come from the same Library, necessarily.

A bank like MONTAGE EXPANDED features many examples and is prepared with a Live Set so that when loaded into a unit at a trade show or music store it has a “Best Of” grouping placed in the Live Set Bank. It’s purpose is surely purely to *feature* a ‘best of’ variety of what’s on offer.

The Factory Live Set
The factory Live Set is a good example... rather than have a first time experience where the player starts at Performance 0001 and increments through to Performance 2,195, the instrument is defaulted to booting up on the Factory Live Set. It serves NO OTHER PURPOSE but to present a variety of sounds grouped together. So that when you’re brand new you can easily find and access a variety of sounds — without having to know how to use [CATEGORY] to *search* for sounds, the first timer can get a good idea of what is on offer. You have 240 or 256 “Best Of” MODX programs easily accessible. Imagine walking into a music store knowing nothing about how to navigate the product... the Live Set screen offers you a variety of the most *asked for* sounds by newbies... in an easy to access form.

First timer’s most asked questions
How’s the piano? How’s the electric pianos? Are there any string sounds? What about synth pads? Does it have an arpeggiator? Are there Drums? Etc., etc., etc. all of these questions are answered on that first page. Imagine if it booted up on “CFX + FM EP” (the very first Performance out of the 2195) and you were looking for strings — how many times would you have to increment the advance button to get to the very first String Performance? Yikes!

One of the things each market’s specialists get to vote on is which of the 2195 expertly programmed Factory Performances gets to be featured in the ‘best of’ (Live Set) Bank that will obviously be the very first impression of the instrument. Unlike the DX7 days where you probably played all 32 programs provided on your very first visit to the store, if you attempted to play each MODX Performance for one minute... you’d be standing there in the store for a day and a half! Straight! (We had to find a way to present “the best of the best of the best”. No one goes out and uses the factory Live Set — it purpose is clearly for *first impressions* — in actual real world use it has a different role.

Mostly, the Motif XF Performances are a known quantity...since 2010...this library bank simply recreates the 512 Performances found in the Motif XF Factory Set. We received many many requests to include these (so many people want their old keyboard in their new keyboard). If you desire to access them via a Live Set - you should really create you own, after playing them.

Roll your Own
Recall a Performance
Hold [SHIFT] + [LIVE SET]
Tap the Live Set location in which you wish to place it.
Remember - the real world use for a Live Set is for quick easy access while on stage... at maximum, the MODX can hold some 5,760 Performances total. Live Sets are for placing those programs you wish to use in the order in which you wish to recall them.

Example: Say on stage you need Acoustic piano, followed by Rhodes, followed by Strings, followed by Acoustic piano, then Strings, and then Rhodes... you would place the programs in your Live Set in that order
Slot 1 - CFX Concert
Slot 2 - Vintage’74
Slot 3 - Medium Large Section
Slot 4 - CFX Concert
Slot 5 - Medium Large Section
Slot 6 - Vintage’74

Recommended: a momentary Foot Switch (FC5) can be used to advance through your currently active Live Set.
[UTILITY] > “Settings” > “MIDI I/O” > set “FS Assign” = Live Set +
Each time you step on the FS it will advance you to the next program on the *currently active* Live Set — and it matters not which screen you are currently viewing. In actual use you may have the same instrument appear several times - it’s a play order, rather than go hunting for the sound simply place it so when you step on the FC5 - BAM it’s ready to play. This works for many folks who follow the set list concept on stage.

There is no definitive way to provide sounds... the programmers have freedom to provide whatever they like; some will include a “best of” (which is someone else’s idea of sounds YOU should like). Make your own. Thanks for the question... stay safe!
  1. 2 weeks ago
  2. MODX
  3. # 1
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Thanks Bad Mister for your detailed explanation.

I didn't realise that there are options in terms of creating Libraries with or without Live Set configurations.

As an aside, if you save an (unedited) Library performance to a Live Set, does this reduce the number of slots available for User Performances (in the system as a whole)?

staying safe...
  1. 2 weeks ago
  2. MODX
  3. # 2
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
As an aside, if you save an (unedited) Library performance to a Live Set, does this reduce the number of slots available for User Performances (in the system as a whole)?
There are 640 actual Performance locations in the USER Bank. There are 640 actual Performance locations in each of the 8 Library locations. That does not change. 5,760 total possible Performances in the MODX.

If you were to then Delete the Library, the Live Set slot would read “Not Found” — a “Live Set” slot *references* the Performance in its original location. A “Live Set” always points to the Performance data... it simply is like placing a shortcut icon on your computer desktop. Clicking that icon is a shortcut to the program in its original installed location. If you were to uninstall the actual program, clicking on the desktop icon would result in the program being ‘not found’.

As to “Live Set” slots:
The User Bank has 8 User “Live Set” groupings of 256 slots each. That’s a total of 2048 Live Set slots in the User Bank.
Each installed Library has 8 “Live Set” groupings of 256 slots each. That’s 2,048 Live Set slots per Library. (That’s some theoretical number greater than 18,000 Live Set slots... total... but that’s just math, in reality there are likely more Live Set slots than you will ever need). It is assumed that in any single ‘set list’, 256 programs per musical set should suffice. Imagine a musical set being approximately 40 minutes on-stage... 256 program changes per musical set is like six programs per minute (I know some will tell you it is not enough but no amount would be for those folks...) grin...

Again, each Live Set slot references a Performance that is currently somewhere in memory. There are so many because, as per my example, it is a set list, you may have the same acoustic piano appear several times in your Set Listing designed good be accessed by stepping on a Foot Switch set to increment through the list... starting to make sense?
  1. 2 weeks ago
  2. MODX
  3. # 3
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Yes, thank you ...starting to make sense.

Just going back to the example libraries of the Montage Expanded and the MotifXFset...

The Montage Expanded seems to have 8 pages of 16 = 256 performances, but this can theoretically go up to 2048 performances, which would be another 7 x 16 = 240 pages of performances?

Also the Motif set, not being configured with Live Sets - does that mean that this library has an allocated Live Set area which remains unused?

Sorry for my obsession with the numbers but I'm just trying to etch the architecture in my head. I found in my use of the MX that I would learn something and then forget as I didn't use it or the feature regularly enough.

thanks again.
  1. 2 weeks ago
  2. MODX
  3. # 4
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
The Montage Expanded seems to have 8 pages of 16 = 256 performances, but this can theoretically go up to 2048 performances, which would be another 7 x 16 = 240 pages of performances?
On the left you see “MONTAGE...” where it says “Bank” ... the authors of MONTAGE EXPANDED used just one of the 8 possible Live Set Banks. They did however fill all 256 slots of the first of eight Banks. There are seven more possible Banks they could have used. If you use “Library Import” to move this Library to the User area, you will see USER LIVE SET #1 is filled, and there are seven more empty Live Set Banks.

When looking at the Live Set screen... top left you can change the Live Set “Bank”, top right you can change the “Page”.
There are 8 Banks, each Bank has 16 Pages, each Page has 16 slots.

For clarity here’s how to see what is available: On the left, set the Live Set Bank to “User 1”
Now on the right side increment through the 16 Pages of “User 1”
Then on the left side, set the Live Set Bank to “User 2”
Now on the right side increment through the 16 Pages of “User 2”
Rinse and repeat... there are eight Live Set User Banks each with 16 Pages

Also the Motif set, not being configured with Live Sets - does that mean that this library has an allocated Live Set area which remains unused?
Yes. There are 8 Banks, each Bank has 16 Pages, each Page has 16 slots. You would need to Load or Import the Motif XF data to the USER area.

Important Once a Library has been installed you cannot make changes to it — “installed” is burned into READ ONLY MEMORY.
But if you move that data to the User area, you can take advantage of the 8 User Live Set Banks, each with 16 Pages and 16 slots per Page.

Final piece of the puzzle: A MODX Library is constructed in the USER area. If, like the authors of MONTAGE EXPANDED, only use the first of the eight Bank locations, then that is all you will see when it is installed. To create a Library you, literally, take the assembled a User Bank and “Save As...” a Library File... this creates a file that can then be “burned” into ROM (Read Only Memory) by loading it.
  1. 2 weeks ago
  2. MODX
  3. # 5
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Yes, thank you ...starting to make sense.

Just going back to the example libraries of the Montage Expanded and the MotifXFset...

The Montage Expanded seems to have 8 pages of 16 = 256 performances, but this can theoretically go up to 2048 performances, which would be another 7 x 16 = 240 pages of performances?

Also the Motif set, not being configured with Live Sets - does that mean that this library has an allocated Live Set area which remains unused?

Sorry for my obsession with the numbers but I'm just trying to etch the architecture in my head. I found in my use of the MX that I would learn something and then forget as I didn't use it or the feature regularly enough.

thanks again.



I was understanding this discussion apart from the couple of things I've highlighted in bold. Are these just a slight mathematical error or am I missing something here?
Thanks :)
  1. 2 weeks ago
  2. MODX
  3. # 6
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I don't have Montage Expanded loaded - but looking at the documentation on Yamahamusicsoft - it claims 256 Live Sets. I take this to mean 256 Live Set slots.

According to the packing list, there are 256 total Performances (128 from DX7 Selection, 64 from Easy Sounds, and 64 from Cool Seminars).

The way they're numbered in the Packing List - I wouldn't be surprised if there's a Live Set on two banks. Bank 1 with 128 from the DX7 Selection and Bank 2 with 64 from Easy Sounds (1-64) and also 64 from Cool Seminars (65-128).

256 Live Set Slots (representing 256 Performances) would take 16 pages assuming no empty slots and one slot per Performance.

16 slots (Performances) per page X 16 pages = 256 Performances. And likely split into two banks of 128 Performances each.
  1. 2 weeks ago
  2. MODX
  3. # 7
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I was understanding this discussion apart from the couple of things I've highlighted in bold. Are these just a slight mathematical error or am I missing something here?
I corrected the slight mathematical error in my reply.

In the User Live Set area you can see the potential size by scrolling through the screens.
_There are 8 User Live set BANKS (Banks are changed on the left side of the Live Set screen using the down cursor arrow to advance).
_Each of those 8 User Banks has its own 16 PAGES (Pages are changed on the right side of the Live set screen).
_Each Page has 16 entry slots.

The authors of the MONTAGE EXPANDED Library placed the 256 Performances that they provided, into Live Set slots. This allowed them to conveniently *group* them, and name the groups — because each PAGE has the ability to be named.

16 Pages of 16 Performances = the 256 Live Set slots provided by MONTAGE EXPANDED.
When the author created them they filled just one User Live Set Bank!

I wouldn't be surprised if there's a Live Set on two banks.
(Surprise!) Jason doesn’t have the Bank and his guess that there are two Banks is incorrect... they all fit in the one LIVE SET Bank ... the 256 provided programs fit nicely into the Single Bank.
What the authors did was simply name each Page — I’m sure they did this so you could know where they were sourced from... this is similar to how the Factory Live Set Pages each have a group name. There is only one Factory Bank (256)

2,048 is the total maximum number of Live Set slots available in the User area.
256 in each Bank x 8 User Live Set Banks... 256 x 8 = 2,048

If, however, you use only User Live Set Bank #1 when creating your Library, when you save as “Library File” the resulting Library will look exactly like MONTAGE EXPANDED... 16 Pages of 16 slots.

If you take a moment and scroll through the USER Live Set grids, you’ll see and it will become clear (or clearer).
You can name each Page... and that is the advantage in the author providing Live Set (not that you would ever use that on stage with the Live Set + (advance with Foot Switch).
  1. one week ago
  2. MODX
  3. # 8
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