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  1. Ken
  2. MODX Series Synthesizers
  3. Thursday, 15 November 2018
The manuals are totally vague when trying to edit a performance changing the key (transpose) I know I am supposed to note shift each part of a performance but need someone to actually step me through it by each screen I should be accessing and where to finally shift the note. HELP!
Responses (20)
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
What you can do on this site is be very specific about which Performance, if you’d like.

First, here’s some help with the terms and when you see the definitions you’ll appreciate why the distinction is made.

TRANSPOSE is used in the synth when it is a function of the Keyboard transmitting.
NOTE SHIFT is used in the synth when referring to the Tone Generator receiving.

While in common language/conversation these terms are the often used to mean the same thing, in the MODX there is this important distinction.

From the HOME screen:
Select the Part, you can do so by moving the cursor down to highlight the Type/Name box for “Part 1”
Press [EDIT]
With “Part 1/Common” in blue in the lower left corner, touch “Part Settings” > touch “Pitch” > find the “Note Shift” parameter.
It is in semitones +/-12 to an Octave

Shift the Part as you desire.
Touch the blue box, “Part 1”, in the lower left corner to see the pop-up menu, select “Part 2”;
Set “Note Shift” and so on... for each Part you wish to shift.
When finished press [STORE]...
Rename and then touch “Done”

EXTRA CREDIT:
The MODX Global settings: TRANSPOSE versus NOTE SHIFT
Press [UTILITY]
Touch “Settings” > “Sound”
Here you’ll see a split screen, top half concerns the Tone Generator, bottom half the Keyboard
We mention this because if you are transmitting OUT via MIDI, Transpose will affect both internal/external devices; Note Shifting is local.
If you are sending MIDI IN, Note Shift will affect the internal synth engine; Transpose only affects the MIDI OUT

Transposing the instrument causes the Keys to send different MIDI Note-On so all receiving devices respond differently (internal and external). Hope that helps.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX Series Synthesizers
  3. # 1
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
So, is there no way to shift a whole performances pitch down from just one screen without having to resort to transposing every single part separately?
Can it be done from editing within a live set page?
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX Series Synthesizers
  3. # 2
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
So, is there no way to shift a whole performances pitch down from just one screen without having to resort to transposing every single part separately?

Correct, though in yamaha-speak, you're not transposing every part separately, you're note-shifting every part separately (because Yamaha uses the word Transpose to mean changing the MIDI note event, rather than changing the pitch of a note, although sometimes the results can be the same to your ears). With that in mind, if you want to transpose your entire Performance, you can use the front panel Transpose buttons, and that may effectively give you the result you're after. The big downside is that, if your Performance included splits, the split points will change. But if your Performance doesn't have splits, or there is leeway around the split points where you don't actually play any notes anyway for a given song, then it may not be an issue.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX Series Synthesizers
  3. # 3
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
So, is there no way to shift a whole performances pitch down from just one screen without having to resort to transposing every single part separately?

Correct, though in yamaha-speak, you're not transposing every part separately, you're note-shifting every part separately (because Yamaha uses the word Transpose to mean changing the MIDI note event, rather than changing the pitch of a note, although sometimes the results can be the same to your ears). With that in mind, if you want to transpose your entire Performance, you can use the front panel Transpose buttons, and that may effectively give you the result you're after. The big downside is that, if your Performance included splits, the split points will change. But if your Performance doesn't have splits, or there is leeway around the split points where you don't actually play any notes anyway for a given song, then it may not be an issue.


No, I would like an easy saveable method. Yes, these user performances have split points
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX Series Synthesizers
  3. # 4
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Then you're back to what Ken said in the OP... "I know I am supposed to note shift each part of a performance." That's the only way to do what you want. Also currently being discussed at https://yamahasynth.com/ask-a-question/performance-common-note-shift and at varous points in the past, it's just a limitation we have to deal with.

It actually may not be so bad in your case, since you are looking for a saveable method, which makes me think you're probably doing it in advance of the gig . So sure, for a 5 Part performance, you have to do the Note Shift operation 5 times instead of once before you save it, but it still probably only takes you less than 30 seconds. The bigger limitation is when needing to change the key of a song on the fly (i.e. during the gig, say to accommodate a singer), and you can't use the Transpose buttons because it will mess up your split points. Two issues come up here... one is that taking x seconds to set up your Note Shifts is trivial at home, but could be a killer on stage when everyone is ready to start the song. The other problem is that if you have to shift to a different Performance at any point during the song, you'll have to Note Shift that one too, and save both Note-Shifted Performances before you start. Otherwise you'll lose your key transposition as soon as you switch to the second Performance. Basically, there is no global real-time key transpose function on the board if you use splits that have to stay in place. But hey, no board is perfect.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX Series Synthesizers
  3. # 5
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
The bigger limitation is when needing to change the key of a song on the fly (i.e. during the gig, say to accommodate a singer), and you can't use the Transpose buttons because it will mess up your split points.
This is only a limitation if you make it one, Scott. First, so my music teacher will stop rolling over; you know you should learn to play in all keys.

That said... If however, you need to change the key of a song, on-the-fly, during the gig, because the singer needs you instantly play in another key... you can:
Press [UTILITY] > “Settings” > “Sound” > NOTE SHIFT ... this is your Global Note Shift parameter.

Two issues come up here... one is that taking x seconds to set up your Note Shifts is trivial at home, but could be a killer on stage when everyone is ready to start the song. The other problem is that if you have to shift to a different Performance at any point during the song, you'll have to Note Shift that one too, and save both Note-Shifted Performances before you start. Otherwise you'll lose your key transposition as soon as you switch to the second Performance.
If you set Utility to the “Settings” > “Sound” screen, it will be there when you return. So one button press, and then enter the Note Shift.

Change Performances, all you want — your split points are respected. You lose nothing when you move to another Performance.
Note Shift will work for your Normal Instrument sounds.

Again TRANSPOSE is different from NOTE SHIFT. NOTE SHIFT affects the Tone Generator (not your Split points).
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX Series Synthesizers
  3. # 6
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Great. Thanks for the replies. ?
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX Series Synthesizers
  3. # 7
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Great. Thanks for the replies. ?
Sorry, I didn’t even see your question hidden in there (in general start a thread if you have question you’d like answered).

So, is there no way to shift a whole performances pitch down from just one screen without having to resort to transposing every single part separately?
Can it be done from editing within a live set page
It is important to be clear on the terminology used in the MODX versus the common use of the words, “transpose”, and “note shift”... In the Yamaha Synthesizers a specific use is given to these words to specifically defferentiate two different routines... such that you should not use them interchangeably if you want to be clear.

TRANSPOSE is used in the synth when it is a function of the Keyboard transmitting.
NOTE SHIFT is used in the synth when referring to the Tone Generator receiving.

Yes in common language we use these terms to mean the same thing. But here they do slightly different things. Two ways to accomplish a change in what you hear... which you use can have repercussions.

There are ways to Note Shift an entire Performance down from just one screen without having to resort to note shifting every single Part separately. You would Note Shift every Part separately when you wish to STORE the Performance like that.

To Note Shift:
Press [UTILITY]
Touch “Settings” > “Sound” > use this “Note Shift” parameter... it changes the Tone Generator.

There is also a way to Transpose an entire Performance down from just one screen without having to resort to programming every Part separately.

To Transpose:
Press [SHIFT] + [-/+TRANSPOSE]

Each has its benefits and its disadvantages. If you are ‘cheating’, using it as a keyboard capo, you will not find a solution that fits all situations.

Transposing is your Keyboard (naturally the split points you made on the Tone Generator seem to move, they don’t, but I’m not going to argue with folks who insist their split points have moved) you can only hope that they see that it is what the key is transmitting that has changed. If your Split is between B2/C3...that is, the bass’ highest note is B2, and the pianos low Note is C3, the Split is still sonically at that point, but the Key that now sends “C3” has changed when you Transpose the Keyboard. The Key that does send C3 is still the lowest for the Piano. There is nothing wrong other than the thinking that it would do something different once they move the virtual capo

Note Shifting is your Tone Generator ... you are changing what pitch is reproduced when you trigger the Key. Note shifting is shifting the pitch of the note reproduced when a specific Key is pressed. This works well for instruments that use Equal Temperament or other normal instrument tunings, but is not so useful for ‘cheating’ when drums are involved... because Note shifting is shifting the pitch of the note produced by the Tone Generator, Note Shifting Drums, the Drum does what it is told but is probably not what you want. Tell the drummer to Note Shift, they start tuning their Kit.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX Series Synthesizers
  3. # 8
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
@Bad Mister
If however, you need to change the key of a song, on-the-fly, during the gig, because the singer needs you instantly play in another key... you can:
Press [UTILITY] > “Settings” > “Sound” > NOTE SHIFT ... this is your Global Note Shift parameter.

OMG, brilliant!! I've seen people mention this "problem" numerous times, and never seen the solution posted, this is very helpful, thanks!

First, so my music teacher will stop rolling over; you know you should learn to play in all keys.

Yeah, I've heard that, but while it's a laudable goal, it's not always a realistic answer. Some reasons...

1. You're limited by the keyboard itself. For example, say you have a MODX7, lowest key is E, and you're set up to play LH bass for a song in E. Singer wants you to drop the song to D. Even if you'd have no problem playing it in D, there's no low D on the keyboard, you're stuck. (If you move things around so you can play an octave higher to get that D, you have to re-do your split points and pitches and, losing that near-octave, may not have enough keys left over to play all the parts anymore... not to mention how time consuming it could be to do all that re-working in the middle of a set!)

2. Some licks depend on certain fingerings to work (like sliding off black keys to white), so when you play them in a different key, they lose that natural flow. In an improv situation, you can just play something different, but if they're recognizable hooks that you want to duplicate, you want them to sound and feel right.

3. Some stuff is just really complicated for almost anyone to transpose on the fly. I say this as someone who plays a bunch of prog rock. ;-) Speaking of which, when Greg Lake had to lower the singing pitch for KE 9 ("Welcome back my friends...";), even Keith Emerson just hit the transpose button. (That's why in a later concert video, you can see him playing "organ" on the Oasys instead of on the real Hammond sitting right underneath it.) Though especially since it would not have been a surprise that they'd be doing it in that key, he was probably doing it for one of the other reasons above rather than difficulty per se.

4. Sometimes we have to play unfamiliar songs from charts. Cold sight-reading is challenging enough without having to instantly transpose it as you read, especially if it's a tricky/fast piece.

But you know, some players simply don't have much ability in that department, but still are capable of buying Yamaha keyboards and going out and having fun and giving what are still good, entertaining performances, and I think that's okay too. Not everyone has to be a virtuoso. So I don't poo-poo anyone's use of any kind of key transpose functions! ;-)
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX Series Synthesizers
  3. # 9
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
+1 to Scott for all the reasons why you want to transpose in some cases - even if you are quite capable of playing different keys.

OMG, brilliant!! I've seen people mention this "problem" numerous times, and never seen the solution posted, this is very helpful, thanks!
For me this is only a half solution. Note that this setting is not saved with the performance. So if it varies between performances you have to a) remember to enable the transpose before the song, b) remember to reset it after the song, c) you need the time to go through the steps.

My ask and I am sure that of many others is to just store that very setting with the performance. Should not be a big deal and would be very helpful for all of the reasons mentioned in your post.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX Series Synthesizers
  3. # 10
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
For me this is only a half solution. Note that this setting is not saved with the performance.

If you need it saved with the Performance, you still have the option of Note Shifting each part and then saving the Performance. With the pop-up menu that lets you quickly go from part to part on the screen with the Note Shift function, it really wouldn't take very long. As long as you're not trying to do it in the middle of a gig, I can live with that.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX Series Synthesizers
  3. # 11
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
That’s what I do. However it still takes some time if you do it in a hurry before a gig when finding out that a different singer is in and you need to transpose a couple of songs. And then going through several parts is error prone. Once I actually messed up a song quite badly... Being able to store the note shift would be so much nicer!
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX Series Synthesizers
  3. # 12
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Lol! Thanks for the reasons — totally unnecessary to justify why you want to do it, it’s a feature for a reason; use it, please! No justification necessary...
Besides, my music teacher can’t hear you!

With 5760 Performance locations for custom data, seems if you need to play in various keys, why wouldn’t you make, name and store what you need for multiple tunings, pre-made. Use Category Search or a Live Set so you have your setups ready in various Keys, ready to go.
Only you know what you need, create what you need, in the keys you need, and learn how to access them when needed. If that’s a priority for you, I can see the solutions. I think so can you... you’re thinking it’s a waste of memory (perhaps, but it’s what YOU need, use it! Please!)

When you have the ability to link together multiple synths, as many as eight (via KBD CTRL) ‘with great power comes great responsibility’, you can’t really complain that controlling them each is a hassle....that’d be like a guitar player saying, “You mean I can play twelve strings but I have to tune each of them! What separately? Can you imagine! LOL.

Why separately? Well, if you think through the possibilities... not all Parts need to be pitch changed when you want to switch what normally sounds when you play... Drums, Percussion, Audio loops, sound effects — these things don’t need to be capo’d to a new pitch because your singer wants to be in a new Key. (You can STORE the Note Shift, you just have to plan to ‘cheat’ ahead of time... and be prepared. If you want to use the technology, learn to use the technology.)

So I say again, only you know what you need, what you are using in your Performances.
If you think all Performances are like “CFX Concert” (where all four Parts make up a single instrument) they are not. When you change the pitch of a Part, each of the eight Elements/Operators can be tuned individually... the shortcut is to Note Shift the entire Part. When you combine Parts you moved up another level... and no there is not a quick way to Note Shift all Parts of a Performance - each Part is, or can be, a separate instrument in most cases.

If you are thinking all Performances are the same... sit and play the Factory sounds some more. I assure you they are not. You have plenty of Performance locations for your data and if you think 5760 is cutting it close, or that you don’t want to clutter your instrument with the same data stored in different musical keys... with an iPhone/iPad and the App, you can keep properly shifted backups of all your Performances in all 12 Keys... and with one touch you’re instantly playing your exact setup in whichever Key your singer desires at that moment.

Solutions exist... you just have to resolve to make them work for YOU.

Need help? That's why we’re here!
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX Series Synthesizers
  3. # 13
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Following describes something that doesn't exist yet:

To save note-shift that only affects one Performance could use adding PART Note Shift as a destination. Using this hypothetical feature, you would tie a PART assignable knob to the new "Note Shift" (PART) destination. Then tie all PART assignable knobs which are tied to note shift to a common assignable knob. De-link this common knob from superknob. Then save the value of the common assignable knob when you want to change keys (and save this change in the Performance).

The ideascale suggestion for adding noteshift as a destination has received no votes yet. Has been online for about a month.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX Series Synthesizers
  3. # 14
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Following describes something that doesn't exist yet:

To save note-shift that only affects one Performance could use adding PART Note Shift as a destination. Using this hypothetical feature, you would tie a PART assignable knob to the new "Note Shift" (PART) destination. Then tie all PART assignable knobs which are tied to note shift to a common assignable knob. De-link this common knob from superknob. Then save the value of the common assignable knob when you want to change keys (and save this change in the Performance).

This sounds more complicated and time-consuming (more steps) than the currently available method of going to the Note Shift page to change a Part, then doing the same with each additional part (using the pop-up menu in the lower left corner), and saving.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX Series Synthesizers
  3. # 15
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Solutions exist... you just have to resolve to make them work for YOU.


Well, I do have a solution for me, which is to transpose the parts and store the performance. For some I actually have different performances in the different keys. But since I select the performances from an iPad application, that in turn requires to have the songs twice and adapt the playlist etc. Still, it works for me, the feature request is - I believe - a small change which would my life easier and apparently that of others which just expected a means to note shift the whole performance with one setting to exist.

Note that I understand that not all parts should be note shifted in some cases. Makes a lot of sense for me but mostly for drum parts. Funny enough, the global note shift does exactly what I would expect - it does not shift the drums. Just perfect. So the feature request is very simple: Make the global note shift storable with the performance. No complicated explanation needed, fortunately...

Need help? That's why we’re here!

Thanks, that's always appreciated!
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX Series Synthesizers
  3. # 16
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Note that I understand that not all parts should be note shifted in some cases. Makes a lot of sense for me but mostly for drum parts. Funny enough, the global note shift does exactly what I would expect - it does not shift the drums. Just perfect. So the feature request is very simple: Make the global note shift storable with the performance. No complicated explanation needed, fortunately...
Sorry, but I don’t think you have that right. If you NOTE SHIFT and a Drum Kit is involved, the results are that the drums are, same as normal Parts, tuned differently.

They are still Tone Generator, so if you Note Shift everything +7 steps (musical fifth), your snare, kick, toms, cymbals, all “munchkinize”... why this is “exactly” what you expected, is curious. I would think most would find this disturbing and would not want this to happen. (You included... let us know).
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX Series Synthesizers
  3. # 17
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
So the feature request is very simple: Make the global note shift storable with the performance. No complicated explanation needed, fortunately...

Well, by definition, global settings are not performance-specific, you can't save a global setting into a performance, it wouldn't be global anymore. And it's useful that way too, because when you do a global note shift, you can change to another Performance and maintain the same key transposition when need be. But, sure, a version of that at the Performance Common level could obviously be a bit of a timesaver in some situations as well.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX Series Synthesizers
  3. # 18
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Note that I understand that not all parts should be note shifted in some cases. Makes a lot of sense for me but mostly for drum parts. Funny enough, the global note shift does exactly what I would expect - it does not shift the drums. Just perfect. So the feature request is very simple: Make the global note shift storable with the performance. No complicated explanation needed, fortunately...
Sorry, but I don’t think you have that right. If you NOTE SHIFT and a Drum Kit is involved, the results are that the drums are, same as normal Parts, tuned differently.

They are still Tone Generator, so if you Note Shift everything +7 steps (musical fifth), your snare, kick, toms, cymbals, all “munchkinize”... why this is “exactly” what you expected, is curious. I would think most would find this disturbing and would not want this to happen. (You included... let us know).
Sorry, you are completely right. I tested this with some perforrmance arp patterns and did not hear the shift. And yes, I find that most disturbing. Thus the global note shift is for me pretty now pretty useless. What a pity... But I guess my feature request stays clear.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX Series Synthesizers
  3. # 19
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
So the feature request is very simple: Make the global note shift storable with the performance. No complicated explanation needed, fortunately...

Well, by definition, global settings are not performance-specific, you can't save a global setting into a performance. And it's useful that way too, because when you do a global note shift, you can change to another Performance and maintain the same key transposition when need be. But, sure, a version of that at the Performance Common level could obviously be a bit of a timesaver in some situations as well.
Completely agree.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX Series Synthesizers
  3. # 20
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