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  1. Nathan
  2. Sherlock Holmes
  3. MOTIFXF
  4. Wednesday, 18 May 2016
I have attached two screenshots which depicts what happens when I attempt to call up my Yamaha FW16e Driver from within Cubase, and Studio One. There is also one other scenario which will rear itself, at times, from within either of the two aforementioned DAW's. At those times, the Yamaha driver will stay in effect for a little while, then just drop out, with no effort on my part bettering the situation.

Bad_Mister (a while back) had shared some very good information, with me, on the setup of my XF6/Fw16e with computer. Though I have never succeeded in doing what I have long wanted to be able to do, I feel that I had been directed much closer to that goal. But I will first have to conquer this driver issue before I can even THINK about that.
Attachments (2)
Responses (24)
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
First of all, I am certainly not Bad Mister! :)
...and though I don't have an idea how to fix this....

What I do have (and you might as well) is a chance to upgrade to Ai8 for pennies.
1 Sign into your account at My Steinberg
2 Then you will see (at least in the U.S) a page titled MY PRODUCTS.
This should have listed your registered licenses.
3 Go to VOUCHERS. See if you also have an upgrade available for Cubase Ai8 for only $9.99!

If you do, and you take the offer, then you have support with them to get to the functionality about which you posted here. :)
Even if you don't have this offer, I'm certain you have the ability to file a MY SUPPORT request with them before you log out and leave their page.

Good luck, and let us know what happened.
Attachments (1)
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MOTIFXF
  3. # 1
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Good advice... I was not aware of that, that's not bad for moving forward six years in software.

Cubase 5 is at that edge of antiquity - there are probably things that are now non-compliant. We cannot tell because you did not include what driver version and what computer type and OS you are running. Computers... if you keep updating the OS and you do not update your software, eventually will obsolete it. That's just the nature of the beast.

Check through your MySteinberg Account if your current computer OS can run Cubase series 5. Or provide us the information and we can check for you.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MOTIFXF
  3. # 2
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Good advice... I was not aware of that, that's not bad for moving forward six years in software.

"Vouchers" was found by accident... "clicking around" pays sometimes!
========
ADDED:
For any that might not have this offer, as a friend of mine this morning, I guess it's dependent upon when or how long ago registration of Ai that came with the XF occurred. I'm guessing and don't know.
I'll try to get these screenshots to post. ;-)
Well.... I got no post. haha ...guess I'll require some 'trust'. :)

*Technical Reference for the site: Neither .png or .jpg worked any size from iMac 10.11.5, One or Both at a time.

Good Luck.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MOTIFXF
  3. # 3
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Thank you, Bubba.

I did visit the 'My Steinberg' site, and re-downloaded my registered (and previously activated) copy of Cubase LE Elements 7. I hadn't thought of messing with it any more, after reading that it could only be installed on the computer that it had been Initially activated on. I no longer have that desktop and, honestly, didn't hold much hope for being able to install/activate it on my laptop. But I did give it a shot, and it DID work out for me. I opened, and shut the program down, a few times, and not once did I receive any type of notice making reference to non activation. So, I am of the mindset that I may be good to go.

Also, I DID see that voucher offer for. $9.99 upgrade to LE-8, and I appreciate your mentioning it. However, I don't think that I am going to take advantage of it - at least not at this time. If antiquated software (Cubase 5) had been the foundation of my problems, then LE Elements 7 should work for me. If it DOES allow me full functionality of my FW16e with Cubase, then I will SURELY upgrade to LE-8.

If the issue persists, then I will have to look elsewhere for the causative factor. The only other place it could be is within ME. I have to admit that I am not totally clear on signal routing. This evening, I set up one track, in LE-7, for the purpose of determining as to whether or not I'd be able to realize proper signal flow. I recorded onto track 1, and could see the audio waves on said track. On playback, however, I could hear nothing. I had thought that the audio would be heard coming from my near-fields. It was only after I switched drivers from the Yamaha FW16e, to the ASIO4ALL driver, that I was finally able to hear the audio, through my computer speakers. But the playback was a bit scratchy, almost like a phonograph's needle riding over some sound grooves which had long since ceased being smooth. Don't know WHAT was up with THAT :).
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MOTIFXF
  3. # 4
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Nathan... Where to begin?

When you get a Steinberg license, you own the license, not your computer. That's why you register. Computers go away, not just because they blowup but they get old, they get stolen, they get beer in them... That's why you register, you can move your license to your new computer. People think they hate the registering or connecting a dongle (I don't get it) it means you can move your license to the computer you are on Now. You can put Cubase on all of your computers - use you dongle (it's called a Steinberg Key) to authorize and open the program. Any way...

Cubase Elements - Cubase LE - Cubase AI
If you are using a free copy (one provided with the purchase of some piece of music related gear) you should be using Cubase AI. AI is the same as LE with a bunch of extra features ADDED it's made specifically for owners of Yamaha music hardware. The only way you can get Cubase AI is with a purchase of a piece of Yamaha hardware. Or as I've learned from Bubba via a voucher. But LE does not have the ability to run the Editor VST or do the advanced integration (AI) audio routing of the AI version...

If you are not clear on signal routing here are some facts:
To use the XF with an FW16E you cannot use ASIO4ALL, sorry. You can certainly playback audio through any driver, but it cannot route the audio coming from the XF. For that you need the Yamaha Steinberg FW driver (YSFW). And this driver is designed to completely AVOID your computer's soundcard and audio system - COMPLETELY. COMPLETELY by design!

The Motif XF takes the place of your sound card. Don't let the fact that it installs in the Motif XF instead of in the computer fool you. It is a Soundcard for your computer. It is simply more efficient to put it in the synthesizer than use up a slot on your computer. But the FW16e is a 16-in/6-out audio interface for your computer. It uses the inputs and the outputs of the Motif XF (your computer doesn't have 1/4" jacks to plug into... Another reason the interface is in the keyboard). And because it literally, taking on the role of the Soundcard... You connect the speaker system to the Motif XF outputs.

Get yourself a pair of quality studio monitors (Yamaha HS8 or MSP7 Studios). I don't know what computer you have (doesn't matter) the speakers are an afterthought and not worthy of your music production requirements. That is not to say they might not be decent enough, but yikes, they are computer speakers. Sorry if that sounds elitist- but I cannot strongly enough recommend that you can do better than computer speakers.

Anyway the Yamaha Steinberg FW driver will not play audio to your computer speakers...it outputs audio to the main L/R jacks on the XF's back panel.

Now, that said, after you finish recording, you can playback on any system, using any driver, even the ones with 250-350ms of latency that come with the computer. On playback latency is a non-issue... Those drivers can output audio through your built-in soundcard and therefore through your computer speakers. But obviously with delay times recording and overdubbing are out of the question.

Look into using AI... If you have one of those multi installs that has Element-LE-AI... Please select to use "AI" wow, you've been missing out on the audio routing features you deserve.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MOTIFXF
  3. # 5
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
@Nathan
Going forward, putting one foot in front of the next, is the spirit and force anyone needs.
While staying positive and placing anxiety/frustration away somewhere, this approach is what works for me.
You might want to check the price for upgrading from your previous licenses for a large discount to Cubase Pro 8.5. This is their current flagship.
The phrase "don't spend good money for bad" doesn't necessarily apply but might. At any rate Ai is easier because it's smaller but I think available tutorials for Pro 8 are more readily available now.
Good Luck with all you decide to do.
----
@Mr. Bad :) What's a 'Kiwi' ? :) ... maybe 'who' is more appropriate.

You are, without a doubt, thE reigning Heavy Weight Champion of The World !!! ;-)))
Good Luck with all you decide to do as well.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MOTIFXF
  3. # 6
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Sorry , Bubba, I meant to say "thanks to Bubba", about the vouchers. Too many pages open
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MOTIFXF
  3. # 7
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
NEVER, EVER appologize to us here again! EVER!! :D
The signal-flow of respect is locked in, from us here to you! :D

We've read some of the new Montage Forum entries.
....don't know how you do it, and not run out of energy.
It eerily is a reminder of stories some friends and family have told about taking fire in wartime! :)
"IN COMING!"
Thanks again for all the help you've given us since 2011.
-----
added;
(Sometimes, reading those posts on the Montage Forum I can get the impression they don't even own the unit. To willingly throw people under the bus for something one doesn't own or just doesn't like for one reason or another.... Even if I'm wrong and they do actually own one, if one is ever so disappointed as to sacrifice another person in order to feel better about themselves, just take it back, get the refund, save one's Karma is a better choice)

(edited for clarity)
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MOTIFXF
  3. # 8
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Bad_Mister, thanks again for your very valuable input.

Yes, I full well understand about the licensing matter. It's just that I had found info (on more than one occasion) regarding Steinberg not permitting their bundled software products to be used/activated on any computers outside of the one that it had been originally activated on. Sometimes, though, I get a little hard headed, and will try to see situations out for myself. I am glad that I did, as it appears that the information I had received had been wrong.

As far as dongles are concerned, I hate them. I have Cubase 4, with its manual & dongle, which has been packaged away for years. I had contacted Steinberg, early into the problem with that dongle, and received no real help from them. Their position was that another dongle would have to be purchased, as it was their feeling that the dongle 'might' have been the problem. At that point, the dongle issue was intermittent, and I just forged ahead with it, being under hopes that someone might know of what might have gone wrong with it. Not too much longer, the condition's status changed to permanent. The dongle wouldn't be recognized at all.

You mentioned that I should be using Cubase AI, if mine is a free copy. Yes, mine IS free, and the folder's file contents (download from the Yamaha Site) make reference to my version being LE AI 7 (please see the 'Cubase Package Files' attachment, below). However, there is no mention of that in the actual program. In the program's 'About' screen (also attached, below) you will see that there to indicate that my version is actually of the 'AI' order. And, now, I understand you are saying that Cubase AI Elements handles audio routing?

And, also on audio routing, maybe I should have given a better description of what I meant, in my previous message. What YET stumps me is going about routing my tracks, from my XF6, into my DAW. I know what you had sent me, a while back, but - for some reason - it just doesn't seem to want to click with me.

I don't know if I've said this before, but you know when I just may get it? most likely, just before something happens to this laptop, and I need a new computer :) . I've already been looking at some, and NONE of them come with Firewire ports.


Yes, I am aware that the FW16e cannot use the Asio4All driver. I have the proper driver, for my FW16e, installed in my system - and that is the only one that I call up when I am attempting to integrate my XF with my computer. On speakers, I have a pair of the Yamaha MSP5's which handles the output of my XF6. I switch to the Asio4All driver so as to be able to hear the playback of my DAW. That, is when I use my 3-piece computer speaker system (which aren't too bad at all, I might add).
Attachments (2)
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MOTIFXF
  3. # 9
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Yes, I am aware that the FW16e cannot use the Asio4All driver. I have the proper driver, for my FW16e, installed in my system - and that is the only one that I call up when I am attempting to integrate my XF with my computer. On speakers, I have a pair of the Yamaha MSP5's which handles the output of my XF6. I switch to the Asio4All driver so as to be able to hear the playback of my DAW. That, is when I use my 3-piece computer speaker system (which aren't too bad at all, I might add).
Are we missing each other? You should be monitoring your DAW through your MSP5's - the speakers connected to your Motif XF. In fact, all your computer's audio including CD, YouTube, Media Player, everything ... When the Motif XF is and the FW16e are On and connected to your computer they are your soundcard.

Look, I understand your computer speakers may not be bad, it doesn't matter, you want to work with your DAW through your MSP5s.
If all you are doing is *playback* through them, why not just MIXDOWN a stereo .wav file that can play from anything on your computer. Hooking up Cubase to your computer speakers is just meaning you have to reconfigure your Cubase system... Which as I recall, is the root of all of your issues. Stop doing this... If you want to see what it sounds like on your computer speakers, fine, you do NOT have to reconfigure your DAW.

Simply mixdown your Cubase project (using the MSP5), create a .wav file. Close Cubase, turn off your Motif XF. Your computer will automatically switch to its internal soundcard. Click on the .wav file and your computer will use whatever the default application you have set for this purpose Media Player, iTunes, whatever.

There is no earthly reason to keep reconfiguring your system. And no good reason to run Cubase through that system. This, I believe is contributing to the issues you describe. You are working too hard, making things more difficult than they have to be. Trust me.

When you launch Cubase you are given a choice which of the program you want to launch. Select AI7.
If you are not given the choice, you were at the time you installed the program. And told it not to ask you again... Either way please use AI7.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MOTIFXF
  3. # 10
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Bad_Mister, I also understand what you are saying about monitoring through my near-fields. That, is exactly what I do anytime that I am engaged in a relationship with my XF6. But in order to hear any output FROM my DAW, I would have to successfully get my tracks INTO the DAW. And that, as has been shared, is the problem that I am faced with.

I love my MSP5 studio monitors, but using them - for mixdowns - necessitates too much compensatory work. What I mean by that is this: I record whatever mix I have ready onto a thumb drive. That drive is taken to the computer, where I transfer the file(s) for the purpose of burning to disk. Playing those files back, on conventional speaker systems, always produced unacceptable sound output of their respective levels. I'd ruined many a disk because of levels not being where they should have been. Either the bass was too hot, or the strings were too low, etc, etc. I'd turn the bass down, burn to another disk, only to find that the level was still unsatisfactory. It was just too much dancing around, with a good number of the instruments, and too much guesswork which translated into wasted media. Being able to get my tracks into my DAW would be immensely helpful to me. Not only would I have the opportunity to mixdown on speakers that should be more closely associated to the conventional type, than my near-fields, but I'd have the capability of using some of the nice plugins that I have. Yes, these speakers that I have made mention of IS a computer system set, but they are some decent ones. Right now they are all that I have, outside of my MSP5's, for speakers - so I kinda have no choice but to use them :) .
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MOTIFXF
  3. # 11
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
@ Bad_Mister.

In light of all the headaches I am having with this matter, I am wondering if there might be something not sitting right with my laptop, itself. I have attached my laptop's system information, that I would appreciate your taking a look at.

Advanced thanks,
Nathan
Attachments (1)
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MOTIFXF
  3. # 12
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I'm not that kind of geek... Looks like a computer to me... Have you tried this step-by-step...

Motif XF YSFW Setup for Windows with Cubase

Let us know what doesn't happen.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MOTIFXF
  3. # 13
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Bad Mister wrote:

I'm not that kind of geek... Looks like a computer to me.


You think? :)

No, seriously though, I have often read where it was mentioned that info on one's computer system might be helpful in determining the reason behind something not working right. And that is why I attached what I did, in my previous email.

I have also attached another screenshot of a wind I had the Mlan16eow that is not showing exactly as in the window that you had sent to me. If you notice, in the window on the attached screen, there is no 'Remote Devices' folder listed under the Midi Port Setup indicator. In what you had sent me there, indeed, was such a folder. Now, how pertinent it might have been TO have seen that, is something that I don't know. I believe, however, in following instructions to the letter, but there appears to be something that isn't altogether proper, here.

I don't know WHY this all is such a huge challenge for me. I mean, others have gained success at what I am wishing to do. I have had five workstations in the Motif line (ES7, ES8, XS6, XF7, XF6) and, since early on, have been trying to achieve what I am still aiming for. In my ES I had the Mlan16e. In my XS6 I had the FW16e. And the latter mentioned add-on is now residing in my beloved XF6.

Will this light bulb illuminate for me? Well, I truly hope so.

We'll see.
Attachments (1)
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MOTIFXF
  3. # 14
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Did you try these folks?

STEINBERG SUPPORT REQUEST
They can get it up and running!

I asked several times in my beginnings with Cubase and with Mac OS X platform, it was always courteous, patient, and professional.
One time all I had to do is trash some old preferences from the Library.... worked like a charm.
In the very beginning, they asked me to uninstall some things and reinstall them again but in a different order. I can recall how skeptical I was but it worked.

Let us know how it was!
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MOTIFXF
  3. # 15
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
...in the window on the attached screen, there is no 'Remote Devices' folder listed under the Midi Port Setup indicator.
If your REMOTE DEVICES folder does not appear, click on the "+" sign in the upper left of that screen to ADD it, a list of Devices appear select Motif XF.

Did you install the "Motif XF Extensions" version 1.1.1?
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MOTIFXF
  3. # 16
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
....sorry Mr. Bad!
I just had to throw in those pennies ;-)
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MOTIFXF
  3. # 17
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Bad Mister, sorry for the delay in my reply, but the answer to your question is yes - I DO have those extensions installed.

@ Bubba,

I may, indeed, have to contact Steinberg Support. Everything else, that I have tried, has proved to be to no avail. Methinks, also, that whatever instructions are out there were compiled under the assumption that interested users would have SOME degree of experience with routing concerns. I, personally, do not. I would have to be seen as someone who needs to be guided with baby steps over the processes.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MOTIFXF
  3. # 18
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Nathan, baby steps, where we left off was with the REMOTE FOLDER... What happens when you press the "+" sign too ADD the Motif XF as a remote device?

Just that one thing, please.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MOTIFXF
  3. # 19
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Bad Mister wrote:

Nathan, baby steps, where we left off was with the REMOTE FOLDER... What happens when you press the "+" sign too ADD the Motif XF as a remote device?

Just that one thing, please.


Bad Mister,

Alongside having to deal with a shoulder-load of other matters, I had really been trying to work myself out of what was going on, without burdening others. But I have not been able to make any mentionable forward movement.

You asked as to what happened when I pressed the "+" sign to add the Motif XF as a remote. Well, that - in itself - is what threw had thrown me. I had thought that I was to see a 'Remote Device' folder in that ADD window, and that the Motif XF would have shown up as an element in its sub folder. That is the way it appears, in the 'Device Setup' window. I just recently thought to click on the 'Motif XF', and it was then that I saw the 'Remote Device' folder show up.

Now, however, I seem to be faced with another challenge, and don't know the level of its pertinence. What I am referring to is the 'Device Setup's' Yamaha Steinberg FW ASIO Window. You'll see that my attached screenshot shows some missing information, compared to the one that was shown in the setup guide link that I'd been given. In that one, the Clock Source showed MotifXF7 Remote, whereas mine is blank. additionally, that one also shows Input and Output Latency values, but mine are blank.
Attachments (1)
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MOTIFXF
  3. # 20
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