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  1. lieven
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. Friday, 11 June 2021
I own a Montage 8 and I have noticed that when switching between performances (also stock presets) that it seems there is a sudden db boost and then after a few seconds the volumes drops back to where it is supposed to be. I am running the lastest 3.5 version. The Montage isn't attached to a DAW, just via the main outputs. I have a video showing the issue but too large to add here unfortunately. When thinking about what I have done differently on the Montage in recent times is that I am using the pattern sequencer and that I have been increasing db on drum kick and snare. But this is within the specific user performance only, so would surprise me if that could influence the whole architecture and the stock performances. Anyone with similar problems or, even better, with solutions to this annoying issue. Thanks in advance!
Responses (11)
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Could you possibly film again lowering first your phone camera resolution, ideally to TV 640x480, and see if the new size matches the forum limitations to allow your posting it?
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 1
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
When I search online for "online video size reducer", I see there are online links that can accept a video file and adjust quality in order to meet a target size.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 2
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I own a Montage 8 and I have noticed that when switching between performances (also stock presets) that it seems there is a sudden db boost and then after a few seconds the volumes drops back to where it is supposed to be. I am running the lastest 3.5 version. The Montage isn't attached to a DAW, just via the main outputs. I have a video showing the issue but too large to add here unfortunately. When thinking about what I have done differently on the Montage in recent times is that I am using the pattern sequencer and that I have been increasing db on drum kick and snare. But this is within the specific user performance only, so would surprise me if that could influence the whole architecture and the stock performances. Anyone with similar problems or, even better, with solutions to this annoying issue. Thanks in advance!
At first you say you are using Performances that are “stock presets”... then later you say your are using the Pattern Sequencer, which would indicate you should be using a User Bank Performance, not a “stock preset”... this could be accounting for the volume difference... that and the fact that Volume data can be changed by the Sequencer, by a Scene recall, or associating your Performance with a LIVE SET.

It is unclear from your post when you are using User Performances (which can store your kick and snare offsets) and “stock performances” and “stock presets” (which cannot).
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 3
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I own a Montage 8 and I have noticed that when switching between performances (also stock presets) that it seems there is a sudden db boost and then after a few seconds the volumes drops back to where it is supposed to be. I am running the lastest 3.5 version. The Montage isn't attached to a DAW, just via the main outputs. I have a video showing the issue but too large to add here unfortunately. When thinking about what I have done differently on the Montage in recent times is that I am using the pattern sequencer and that I have been increasing db on drum kick and snare. But this is within the specific user performance only, so would surprise me if that could influence the whole architecture and the stock performances. Anyone with similar problems or, even better, with solutions to this annoying issue. Thanks in advance!
At first you say you are using Performances that are “stock presets”... then later you say your are using the Pattern Sequencer, which would indicate you should be using a User Bank Performance, not a “stock preset”... this could be accounting for the volume difference... that and the fact that Volume data can be changed by the Sequencer, by a Scene recall, or associating your Performance with a LIVE SET.

It is unclear from your post when you are using User Performances (which can store your kick and snare offsets) and “stock performances” and “stock presets” (which cannot).



Thanks for your reply. Please find a youtube link attached. I was just thinking if I had done something special recently that could be the source of the problem (which was using the pattern sequencer and thus user performances). But as you can see in the video, it is happening when I use the preset performances. https://youtu.be/XaR7-kqkVzo
References
  1. https://youtu.be/XaR7-kqkVzo
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 4
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Could you possibly film again lowering first your phone camera resolution, ideally to TV 640x480, and see if the new size matches the forum limitations to allow your posting it?


https://youtu.be/XaR7-kqkVzo
References
  1. https://youtu.be/XaR7-kqkVzo
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 5
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Unfortunately you wasted a video post because you provided no additional information. Your video shows that the second sound is louder than the first. (Which is information you clearly stated in words). Imagine a viewer trying to gain some information from this video... what can they gain that you didn’t already tell us?

How about close-ups of the screen so we can at least see the Performance name - if it’s a “stock preset”, then we all have it and can take a look at it.
There is no information about what you changed in the second one.
I don’t hear kick and snare!
There is no information about the Pattern Sequence.
A picture is worth a thousand words only if the picture provides new information.
We’ll assume (because you don’t say) the first one is the stock factory, what is the second one? (Obviously, this not the one where you edited the kick and snare... so what is supposed to be different about it, parameter setting-wise?)

Please try again. Sound is working on your video, don’t be afraid to add information (talk) that would be helpful.
Specifically, talk about what you’ve changed in the edited version.

Possible causes
__ your instrument’s system settings for “Controller Reset” - when set to Hold you will inherit Controller settings from Performance to Performance; when set to Reset each new program will reset your controllers to the stored/default values. If you are using a pedal to do Expression (cc#11) this can impact volume from program to program.
[UTILITY] > “Settings” > “MIDI I/O”

What are the stored settings for Performance Volume? For Part Volumes, in each Performance?
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 6
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
The filter is showing "All" banks and the "Piano" main category.

In this page I have no user Performances - so the screen matches 100% what my screen shows for the Performance names. These are all preset Performances.

https://i.ibb.co/tZtBz0y/Montage-Volume-Problem-Video-Screenshot.png

The first preset Performance pressed is "CFX + FM EP"

The second preset Performance pressed is "CFX + FM EP 2".

I didn't have as much problem following the setup. However, it still was not very helpful to me as I don't know other possible influences on the volume are controlled. Like the velocity of the notes played, change in the expression pedal's offset to volume, etc.

It wasn't an obviously clean enough test for me to attribute much of anything to the difference in volume.

There's a lot of missing context.

When I do a similar test playing a B pentatonic with the sustain pedal pressed, then stop, then switch to the other "CFX + FM EP" (either with or without the " 2" at the end) then press the sustain pedal again and start playing - I don't hear any volume difference monitoring with earphones.

I tried listening with only one ear on (R -or- L) to see what mono sounded like. What I didn't test was listing with only one (MAIN L&R) output connected - which is slightly different.

That said - there are many variables I am not sure are controlled including the hands.

You can take variability out of the hands by [UTILITY] "Settings" -> "Sound" and change the "Velocity Curve" parameter to "Fixed" with some fixed velocity - something low since it seems you're playing fairly light in the video. That would be one variable controlled.

I would unplug any expression pedals because who knows if those are getting adjusted. And unplug MIDI connections because I can't rule out influence from the outside.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 7
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Unfortunately you wasted a video post because you provided no additional information. Your video shows that the second sound is louder than the first. (Which is information you clearly stated in words). Imagine a viewer trying to gain some information from this video... what can they gain that you didn’t already tell us?

How about close-ups of the screen so we can at least see the Performance name - if it’s a “stock preset”, then we all have it and can take a look at it.
There is no information about what you changed in the second one.
I don’t hear kick and snare!
There is no information about the Pattern Sequence.
A picture is worth a thousand words only if the picture provides new information.
We’ll assume (because you don’t say) the first one is the stock factory, what is the second one? (Obviously, this not the one where you edited the kick and snare... so what is supposed to be different about it, parameter setting-wise?)

Please try again. Sound is working on your video, don’t be afraid to add information (talk) that would be helpful.
Specifically, talk about what you’ve changed in the edited version.

Possible causes
__ your instrument’s system settings for “Controller Reset” - when set to Hold you will inherit Controller settings from Performance to Performance; when set to Reset each new program will reset your controllers to the stored/default values. If you are using a pedal to do Expression (cc#11) this can impact volume from program to program.
[UTILITY] > “Settings” > “MIDI I/O”

What are the stored settings for Performance Volume? For Part Volumes, in each Performance?


thanks for your advice. On the video I play 2 preset performances
The first preset Performance is "CFX + FM EP". You will hear the volume drop after one and a half second. Then I switch to the second preset Performance "CFX + FM EP 2" starting at normal volume and at the 15th second in the video you hear the volume drop in this preset too.
I only made reference to pattern sequencer and kick and snare because I was thinking about what I have done differently on this keyboard since this problem started and that was playing around with the pattern sequencer and tweaking on db levels for kick and snare. Not saying that this has got something to do with this issue; but never encountered this volume issue before, prior to start using the pattern sequencer some time ago. On the video it is just those to stock presets that everybody has, so no tweaking on part volumes or anything else.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 8
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
The filter is showing "All" banks and the "Piano" main category.

In this page I have no user Performances - so the screen matches 100% what my screen shows for the Performance names. These are all preset Performances.

https://i.ibb.co/tZtBz0y/Montage-Volume-Problem-Video-Screenshot.png

The first preset Performance pressed is "CFX + FM EP"

The second preset Performance pressed is "CFX + FM EP 2".

I didn't have as much problem following the setup. However, it still was not very helpful to me as I don't know other possible influences on the volume are controlled. Like the velocity of the notes played, change in the expression pedal's offset to volume, etc.

It wasn't an obviously clean enough test for me to attribute much of anything to the difference in volume.

There's a lot of missing context.

When I do a similar test playing a B pentatonic with the sustain pedal pressed, then stop, then switch to the other "CFX + FM EP" (either with or without the " 2" at the end) then press the sustain pedal again and start playing - I don't hear any volume difference monitoring with earphones.

I tried listening with only one ear on (R -or- L) to see what mono sounded like. What I didn't test was listing with only one (MAIN L&R) output connected - which is slightly different.

That said - there are many variables I am not sure are controlled including the hands.

You can take variability out of the hands by [UTILITY] "Settings" -> "Sound" and change the "Velocity Curve" parameter to "Fixed" with some fixed velocity - something low since it seems you're playing fairly light in the video. That would be one variable controlled.

I would unplug any expression pedals because who knows if those are getting adjusted. And unplug MIDI connections because I can't rule out influence from the outside.


Many thanks for your advice. I have an expression pedal connected from time to time and will check if that makes a difference. Interesting thought. Thanks!
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 9
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Some further detail about the expression pedal ports (for more system understanding) ...

There are two FC ports for expression pedals and FOOT CONTROLLER 1 (FC1 for short), by default, will act as a swell ("volume" ) pedal and the FOOT CONTROLLER 2 (FC2 for short) port will, by default, control superknob. I'm not necessarily saying that an expression pedal equates to volume - but it is one of the two possibilities depending on the port it is plugged into. By the way - these default assignments FC1 to control volume and FC2 to control superknob, as used in all of the preset Performances, can be altered when you create your own user Performances.

Sometimes even superknob is programmed in a way that will affect the volume. This is not the case for "CFX + FM EP" or "CFX + FM EP 2". The superknob will change the sound by "morphing" between an acoustic CFX piano sound and an FM-X synthesized electric piano sound. The volume is not drastically different between the two sounds and I did not detect a change in timbre in your video.

At any rate - unplugging all accessories and cables except for power is an easy way to level-set.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 10
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Some further detail about the expression pedal ports (for more system understanding) ...

There are two FC ports for expression pedals and FOOT CONTROLLER 1 (FC1 for short), by default, will act as a swell ("volume" ) pedal and the FOOT CONTROLLER 2 (FC2 for short) port will, by default, control superknob. I'm not necessarily saying that an expression pedal equates to volume - but it is one of the two possibilities depending on the port it is plugged into. By the way - these default assignments FC1 to control volume and FC2 to control superknob, as used in all of the preset Performances, can be altered when you create your own user Performances.

Sometimes even superknob is programmed in a way that will affect the volume. This is not the case for "CFX + FM EP" or "CFX + FM EP 2". The superknob will change the sound by "morphing" between an acoustic CFX piano sound and an FM-X synthesized electric piano sound. The volume is not drastically different between the two sounds and I did not detect a change in timbre in your video.

At any rate - unplugging all accessories and cables except for power is an easy way to level-set.


Thanks for your help, Jason. Appreciate. Going to do some further tests during the weekend!
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 11
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