YamahaSynth.com Forums

This is the place to talk about all things related to Yamaha Synthesizers!
  1. Alexander
  2. MODX Series Synthesizers
  3. Monday, 26 April 2021
Hello all,
I am new to the MODX and have been wondering about the following:
I managed to load a drum-pattern and, as described in the manual, when I then press the "Part/Element" button the view on the home screen presents me with a couple of volume for some of the individual drum sounds in the lower right part of the screen. They are named BD, SN, HH etc.

When you move the sliders/faders, you will see that the text-box appearing (white text on black background) in the top of the screen (it only appears while you're adjusting the sound level) is saying something like (for the Bass Drum in this example) "Drum key C1: level <some number between 0-127>", which obviously refers to the fact that you are now adjusting the volume for the key C1.

I found a drum kit which I ran with the arpeggiator "on hold" (or whatever it's called), and then I wanted to regulate the sound levels for the individual drums. Guess what? It worked for all the involved (programmed) elements.. except the Bass Drum. Why? Because that particular pattern seems to be using another BD sound which is mapped to say.. the D5-key or something similar.

Now the challenge: Is it possible to change the mapping of the slider to control the BD sound? I find it mildly ridiculous that those slider/fader mappings are fixed because..
Exchanging the two sound patches on keys C1 and D5 will not solve the problem.. the pattern will just get another BD sound, but the slider will still only engage the C1-key.. and as stated above, the arp-pattern is using D5 as the sound.

If it's not possible to changed the slider-mapping to whatever other key you want them to control, can I then instead re-program the selected arp. drum-pattern to actually use the C1-key as BD, and then change/swap the sound patches between C1 and D5 ? (in that case the slider would work for the BD part).

Any help would be welcome :)
Thanks for taking your time to read this post!
Responses (13)
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Hi Alexander,
Welcome to YamahaSynth, where we explain and hopefully help solve your issues. There are over 10,000 Arpeggio Phrases, more than 3400 of them are Drum/Perc Arp Phrases.

Not all Drum/Perc Arps use a traditional drum kit (it would be wrong to think so). And unlike the so-called ‘Normal’ instrument Parts, where there are 8 Elements and a Slider for each, a Drum Kit has 73 Elements, one per Key C0~C6. What would be difficult to do is have 73 Sliders — besides, not all the Drum/Perc Arps use a standard kit... nor were the programmers limited to just 8 sounds (actually as many as 16 different drum/percussion keys can be involved, at maximum).

A majority of the basic Drum phrases are for the standard drum kit... what we refer to as the “Trap Kit”
There are 8 Sliders
In a standard Kit, you can have an 8-piece Kit (the principal drums) that’s the way to think about it. As follows:
C1 Bass Drum
D1 Snare Drum
F#1 Closed Hihat
G#1 Pedal Hihat
A#1 Open Hihat
D2 Hi Tom
A1 Low Tom
C#2 Crash cymbal

These are the Keys that have dedicated sliders.
Any Drum sound can be placed on any Key, C0~C6.

It is not feasible to have 73 Sliders.
Nor was it practical (musically speaking) to limit the programmers to using just these eight sounds...(how boring that would be... and how impractical on some of the more percussion oriented and exotic “Kits”.
Any sound placed on those particular Keys can have a Slider.

When the international programming team are given their marching orders to create content, they are made aware of the general rules but rather than force them to all use only the principal drums, they are free to use any of the sounds that they like.

The Data List booklet (pdf) outlines each Arp phrase and the original Kit it that was programmed on (among other information about the Phrase). Not all 73 Keys are a fixed sound — so there are alternate bass drums, snare drums in each Kit — by the way.

What you can do
Change the Bass drum sound you wish to use to C1... Here’s how this is easily accomplished...
You can use the Arpeggiator parameter called “Fixed SD/BD”
“When this parameter is set to On, C1 will be used as the note of the Bass Drum and D1 will be used as the note of the Snare Drum in Arpeggio playback.”


Select the Part containing the Drum Kit
Press [EDIT]
Tap “Arpeggio” > “Advanced” > “Fixed SD/BD” = On

This will automatically force the Bass Drum and Snare Drum to play from the Notes C1 and D1, respectively. This will allow you to use the Sliders on the Drums currently assigned to C1 and D1 of the selected Kit

You can now easily move whatever Bass Drum you want to C1
(You can move whatever Snare Drum sound you want to D1)
This is accomplished using the EXCHANGE ELEMENT function.

In your case you would,
1) Set the “Arpeggio” > “Advanced” > “Fixed SD/BD” = On
2) Exchange C1 and D5

Element Exchange
Navigate to the Drum Edit screen... along the bottom of the screen tap “Drum Key (blue)
Activate “Keyboard Select” (green)
Touch “C1” to make this the selected “Drum Key”
Press [SHIFT] + [EDIT]

Activate the “Exchange” (green) function
On the left side is your source (Part and Element/DrumKey)
On the right side target the Key you wish to swap “D5”

You now have the original sound mapped to the Key with access to the Slider.

Theory of Solution
73 Keys - 73 Elements
8-piece Kit maximum - 8 Sliders maximum
Solution: Move the Drum to the Slider

The Element Sliders appear when, on the HOME screen, you select/highlight an individual Part, and adjust the VIEW option.

Hope that helps.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX Series Synthesizers
  3. # 1
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Thanks a million Mr.
I will definitely give it a try with the forced BD/SN feature.

Out of curiosity, would it be possible to edit (manually) an existing arp drum pattern to use another key in place of one it already has.. the solution you suggested with forcing is brilliant, but is it the only solution?

Thanks again so much for your assistance!
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX Series Synthesizers
  3. # 2
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Out of curiosity, would it be possible to edit (manually) an existing arp drum pattern to use another key in place of one it already has.. the solution you suggested with forcing is brilliant, but is it the only solution?
If you are asking can you record your own Arpeggio Phrase using the notes you want, sure why not.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX Series Synthesizers
  3. # 3
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Hi Bad Mr.
I tried your above solution, but run into trouble.
It all works fine on for example: Modern Rock Kit 2, "MA_Rock Loop 5".. but I happened to have chosen instead "MA_Rock Loop 14", where the suggested solution doesn't work. I can get as far as exchanging the two bass drum keys (C1 and B5), but the slider adjustment is still completely ignored.

I have tried to look around in the menus to see if something was obviously different but haven't been able to identify why the Loop 14 doesn't adhere to the solution..

It works for Loop 5 just fine.. even without the forced BD/SN

Any ideas?
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX Series Synthesizers
  3. # 4
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
As a "debug" step - assign D5 to a strange sound you'd be able to hear easily like a whistle (waveform # 3220), vibraslap (waveform # 2879), or even a crash (waveform # 6171). The reason for this is so that the "wrong" key of a bass drum will stand out if the ARP plays this note. The Fixed SD/BD is said to do the mapping and you can more easily tell that this is working properly if you take D5 (the "wrong" bass drum) and map it to something you'd be able to easily hear if it was still being triggered by the ARP.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX Series Synthesizers
  3. # 5
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Hi Jason,
Thank you for your suggestion, but I've actually already tried this.

In order to clarify matters, I am looking at the elements and drumkey screen when the "MA_Rock Loop 14" is playing. So I can see (there's a little green lamp that is lit up every time the drumkey you are set at gets played by the arpeggiator), that it IS in fact the BD sound located on key B5 which is activated.

A friend of mine has the MODX7 (I have a MODX6), and we tried the same thing on his keyboard last night, just to see if the problem is also there on his. And it is.. so, there's obviously something about how the arp-patterns that I'm not understanding here..

I wonder if there's a way to look at the loaded arp-pattern (e.g. to see which individual waveforms are used and when they are played.. on a visual form)..

..as for the "fixed BD/SN", it doesn't really seem to do anything, regardless whether I have it on or not :(


When I have the keyboard setup in front of me, I will try to see if I can make a detailed step-by-step on which keys I am pressing and what observations I'm doing along the way, just to clarify matters and how exactly I'm challenged here.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX Series Synthesizers
  3. # 6
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
As a "debug" step - assign D5 to a strange sound you'd be able to hear easily like a whistle ...


Thank you for your suggestion, but I've actually already tried this.


..as for the "fixed BD/SN", it doesn't really seem to do anything


Ok - so "MA_Rock Loop 14" uses MIDI note D5 as the bass drum. And you've replaced D5 with a whistle (or something easily heard). So, because fixed SD/BD (snare drum/bass drum) doesn't do anything - you continue to year the whistle (or other distinguishable noise) when the ARP is playing.

If you're having problems getting this all to work -did you check out this previous thread:

https://www.yamahasynth.com/ask-a-question/techno-drum-arpeggios-midi-notes-most-often-used

In that thread, there was some initial trouble getting Fixed SD/BD working. There was no followup if the additional information helped.

The thread also references:

https://yamahasynth.com/learn/montage/montagifying-motif-smooth-it-over

... which has an example of using Fixed SD/BD.

The "Montagifying / Smooth It Over" article states:

You can adjust the principal Drums using the FADERS as long as they are assigned to the following KEY Mapping:
- BD (Bass Drum) = C1;
- SD (Snare Drum) = D1;
- HHC (High hatclosed) = F#1;
- HHP (High hat pedal) = G#1;
- HHO (High hat open = A#1


You may notice that certain Arp phrases do not use the prinicipal Drum Key assignments. In this example, the phrase does not use the Snare (SD) controlled by the FADER (D1). You can either use the ELEMENT EXCHANGE function to swap KEY assignments, placing the SD you want on D1, or, you can try the FIXED SD/BD function - which substitutes C1 and D1 for Kick and Snare:*

1) Go to [EDIT] > [PART SELECT 1] > Lower [COMMON] > "Arpeggio" > "Advanced"
2) Activate the "Fixed SD/BD":

(picture of screen with Fixed SD/BD)
This will allow you to use the BD/SD and HH levels. Adjust the balance of Bass Drum, Snare Drum and HHC/HHP/HHO that works for your taste. You can choose to use any KICK and SNARE you prefer... remember once you identify which NOTE number is playing a particular sound you can swap it with the principal KYES: C1 and D1, then using this "FIXED SD/BD" function you will have control over those drums via the Faders.


Now - maybe, theoretically, the Fixed SD/BD function needs to see a bass drum in the "wrong" position - so as a further debug step I'd put a bass drum back into D5 to see if that helps the "Fixed SD/BD" feature do the swap.

The parameter manual states:
Fixed SD/BD (for Drum Parts)
Determines whether or not C1 and D1 are fixed as notes for Bass Drum
(BD) and Snare Drum (SD) in Arpeggio playback.
When this parameter is set to On, C1 will be used as the note of the Bass
Drum and D1 will be used as the note of the Snare Drum in Arpeggio
playback.
Although most Drum Kits assign the Bass Drum sound to C1 and the Snare
Drum to D1, certain Drum Kits additionally assign these sounds to other
notes and certain Arpeggio Types are created by using those different
notes. Accordingly, you may hear improper sounds depending on the
selected Arpeggio Type and Drum Kit. Setting this parameter to On may
solve such problems.


What all of this information doesn't let you know is how the system figures out which non-D1 or non-C1 note is the note of the snare or bass drum.

Does this mean the drum in C1 needs to exactly match the drum in the non-C1 spot in order for the swap to take place? Or does the system just find any non-C1 note that's mapped to any bass drum and play whatever sound is in C1?

More information on how this works internally would help. At least enough information to ensure success with its use.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX Series Synthesizers
  3. # 7
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
An interesting note from the Music Production Guide:

Source: http://www.easysounds.eu/MusicProductionGuide_2018_04_EN.pdf
The direct selection of these most important drum
instruments will not lead to the desired changes for every
Drum Arpeggio, as different Keys are sometimes used for
bass drums and snare drums. However, with a special
Arpeggio setting, you can generally redirect the bass
drum and snare drum notes used in an Arpeggio to the
standard Keys C1 and D1. This setting is made in Display
Edit - Part 1 - Common - Arpeggio - Advanced (bottom
right) with the parameter setting "Fixed SD/BD = ON" and
applies to all Arpeggio Types used in a Part.
However, this redirection does not work for all Drum
Arpeggios. If the bass drum or snare drum is on a rather
atypical Key (e.g. in the fifth octave), it is not diverted.


... and wouldn't you know - D5 is in that unlucky 5th octave. It would be nice to know how the feature works so we could more readily determine if an effort is futile or not. The feature is described more as an aspiration than it is giving useful information for the keyboardist to configure to.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX Series Synthesizers
  3. # 8
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I wonder if I simply found a bug?

When loading the above-mentioned "Modern Rock Kit 2" and then choose the MA_Rock Loop 14, the trick with Arp -> advanced -> Fixed BD/SN doesn't at all affect the BD.

It works well and as described by bad Mr. when I try with other loops such as MA_Metal Loop 6

Are there simply some patterns that can't be forced with the fixed BD/SN feature, could there be something else mapped that I'm unaware of.. or is it in fact.. a bug?
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX Series Synthesizers
  3. # 9
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Not a "bug" if the feature is designed to not "divert" drums in the 5th+ octave. Your arp uses the 5th octave - so you're out of luck using Fixed SD/BD for that.

Just wish there was more description of HOW it works - so we can stop making inferences.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX Series Synthesizers
  3. # 10
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Not a "bug" if the feature is designed to not "divert" drums in the 5th+ octave. Your arp uses the 5th octave - so you're out of luck using Fixed SD/BD for that.

Just wish there was more description of HOW it works - so we can stop making inferences.



Thanks a million Jason. I believe I'd probably never be able to sniff up that info myself. I've been plowing through most of all the available manuals, and (obviously) without luck.

I understand that "for some unknown reason" the 5th+ octave won't work with fixed BD/SN. From a software perspective, I find it to be a strange limitation, but I'm sure Yamaha has its reasons.

I'll probably just end up splitting out the drum kit on separate tracks, which gives me control with the sliders over each part.. an expensive workaround, but it'll do.

Thanks again for the detective work ???
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX Series Synthesizers
  3. # 11
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
You can rewrite the Arp Phrase so that it uses the Kick and Snare drum of your choosing. You can accomplish this using a combination of MODX features. I’ve been using Yamaha sequencers for more than 30 years — there are always an assortment of EDIT/JOBs that when used in combination result in accomplishing your goal. This is fairly typical if you ever have used any hardware sequencer. There is no one single function — it is a combination of functions. Basically you need to put the Drum Arp Phrase on Track 1 of a Pattern Sequence. Divide the data by instrument (isolating the Drums to separate tracks). Edit the bass drum so it plays C1 using the real time PLAY FX (Note Shift).
After “normalizing” the data, use “Track” > “Mix” to merge the new data with the original data. Then convert the Phrase to a new “User Arp”. Finally apply the User Arp in your Performance.


Rather than just write out all the steps, it is better to start by listing the skills you’ll need and the EDIT/JOB functions you will need to learn to use. I’ve provide Links to articles that go into depth on many of these features...

Start by determining the Length of the Drum Arp Phrase because we will be transferring the data to a Pattern Seq Track for Editing. You can do so by navigating to the Part’s “Arpeggio” > “Common” screen and turning Loop = Off (or look it up in the DATA LIST pdf).

Problem: The Drum Arp Phrase is not using the principal notes that allow eight Slider control.
Solution: Rewrite the Drum Arp Phrase.

Required Skills:
_ Transfer the Drum Arp Phrase to the Pattern Sequencer
_ Separate the Drum/Perc instruments using “Divide Drum Track”
_ Using “Play/FX” to Note Shift the Bass Drum
_ Normalize Play FX
_ Pattern Job: Track > Mix combine new bass drum w/original data
_ Use the real-time ERASE to remove the original Bass Drum
_ Creating a new “Fixed” User Arp

The Details
Transfer the Drum Arp Phrase to the Pattern Sequencer
__ Recall the Single Part Performance with the Drum Arp Assigned
__ Press Record - select “Pattern” - Set “KeyOn Start” = On, Set “Loop Off”; Transfer one cycle of the Phrase to Scene 1

Separate the Drum/Perc instruments using “Divide Drum Track”
Article Link: Divide Drum Track

Record your drums to Track 1. When “Divide Drum Track” is executed, the original data will remain intact on the source Track; while the divided drums will be separated to their own Track, 9-16. The original Drums in the screenshot below were recorded to Track 1 – using “Real Drums Kit”. After the Divide, you can see the results in Parts 9-16:
https://yamahasynth.com/images/Divide_Drum/divide1.png

Because you selected an Arp that uses a non-standard substitute (usually the alternate Kick drums are found just below the C1), your bass drum may wind up on Track 2, isolated

Using “Play/FX” to Note Shift the Bass Drum
Article Link: Pattern Play FX
“The Note Shift function can be used to change the Key on Normal musical sounds by semitones. You would not necessarily want to Note Shift the data triggering an entire Drum Kit. However, this can be useful on drum and percussion sounds if you switch the program to the appropriate Kit. Used in conjunction with the “Divide Drum Track” function (see separate article), you can easily and quickly alter the drum sound played by a track. For example, say you recorded a Pattern and want to try out a different snare drum sound – you can use Divide Drum Track to isolate the drum to its own track, then you can use the Note Shift to shift that drum to a new sound using a PART that is dedicated to all Kick drums or all Snare drums.”

Take your Drum Track (probably now on Track 10) and Note Shift until the data on the track is triggering the Bass drum on C1)

Normalize Play FX
This will rewrite the data on the Track

Pattern Job: Track > Mix
This will allow you to combine your newly Note Shift Bass Drum to the original data still on Track 1

ERASE the original Bass Drum
Article Link: Rehearse and Erase in a Pattern
Place the Pattern in Overdub Record
Set “Loop” = On
Start the transport
Tap the box that says “Erase” (green)
Hold down your original bass drum note as it cycles to remove it

You should now have on Track 1, the rewritten Phrase
Use the “Edit/Job” > “User Arp” to create a new Arp Phrase
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX Series Synthesizers
  3. # 12
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Regarding Fixed SD/BD ...

Sometimes I find better info on how a feature looks by pulling up old docs - like a Motif XF manual (or keep going back until I find the introduction of the feature). That was not really the case here. Just obscure hints from a 3rd party source.

I kind of find the limitation strange - but maybe internally they're using coarse tune for some reason which is +/-48semi-tones (or just a variable with the same reach for an internal note-shift of a single drum key). C5 is 48 semi-tones away from C1. So anything above C5 I presume would not "divert" to C1.

Maybe when I have the keyboard setup I'll poke and prod at this to come up with a better description of how the Fixed SD/BD feature works.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX Series Synthesizers
  3. # 13
  • Page :
  • 1


There are no replies made for this post yet.
Be one of the first to reply to this post!
2021 © Yamaha Corporation of America and Yamaha Corporation. All rights reserved.