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  1. Jeroen
  2. Sherlock Holmes The Voice
  3. MONTAGE
  4. Wednesday, 11 May 2016
Can you set the receive channel of each part individually in the Montage?

If not so,
1- why did they introduce this limitation and
2- will there be an update very soon?

To play live with two keyboards, I need to set the receive channel of each part individually,
just like I do with my Motif XF in mix mode/master mode.

Example:
I would like to play the Montage-piano (4 parts) on an external keyboard on channel 6 (and control the volume with slider 1).
And layer Montage-strings (2 parts) on an external keyboard on channel 7 (and control the volume with slider 2).
And at the same time I would like to split the Montage-keyboard to play an organ and a brass sound and an external sound (and control the volume with slider 3, 4 and 5).
This is something you can easily do on the Motif XF (in mix mode/master mode).

I ordered my Montage 6 already and I hope that I don't have to return it...
Responses (53)
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Like other guest also to me current montage limitation cause a lot of problem to solve my keyboard setup.
A lot of controller doesn't have capabilities to manage 8 channels per times so it is necessary to choose in a little and expensive list of controller that work on 8 channels simultaneously.
I hope Yamaha fix this issue next firmware.
I need to use montage in a multi midi mode and I need to choose the channel on witch any part can receive midi message.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 1
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Very useful arguments to this issue:

Jason wrote:

1) Yamaha is at a competitive disadvantage vs. other 16-part multimbral synths that support flexibility in configuring input MIDI channel number to each of the synth's "PART" equivalent.

2) Despite what you can and cannot do with Montage as it exists today, there are musically relevant reasons why this feature would be advantageous to the end user.

2.a) Compatibility with external hardware (legacy and latest production)
2.b) MIDI efficiency to avoid possible overflow (use of overlapping channels to avoid having to replicate messages for layering)
2.c) Routing flexibility: Allow more than one group of PARTs to be combined into a single channel such that multiple external controllers could target their own multi-PART instrument.
2.d) Other workflow possibilities members have contributed not mentioned above

I'm not sure those who mention they're fine with the system as-is are arguing against adding the feature - only that if it were added, they do not see using it given what demands they uniquely need out of the MIDI implementation. It's fair to present all sides to help understand the segment of the population Montage is currently aligned to.


See Midi
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 2
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Yamaha's baffling decision to hardcode the MIDI receive channel for each part makes it

IMPOSSIBLE TO CREATE A SPLIT FOR AN EXTERNAL CONTROLLER.

This is a very big deal as it's the foundation for my rig.

I use a 2 keyboard setup with a Roland A88 as my primary keybed (the lightest, best weighted controller out there) and the Montage as the brains of the operation.

I want to do the vast majority of my playing from the A88 - thus I have the need to program splits for it.

I NEED to control multiple Montage parts from the A88 (e.g. lower keys play a Rhodes, while upper keys play horns).

The Kronos and other synths achieve this. The Montage makes this completely impossible.

Yamaha, if you're listening: a critical feature is missing from the MIDI implementation of this otherwise stunning keyboard and it represents such a problem for me as to possibly have to turn around and SELL it and go back to my Kronos.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 3
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I need too a separate midi in channel. I hope in updste soon. Is a big limitstion in a setup with montage and other keyboard
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 4
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Robert wrote:

Yamaha's baffling decision to hardcode the MIDI receive channel for each part makes it

IMPOSSIBLE TO CREATE A SPLIT FOR AN EXTERNAL CONTROLLER.

This is a very big deal as it's the foundation for my rig.

I use a 2 keyboard setup with a Roland A88 as my primary keybed (the lightest, best weighted controller out there) and the Montage as the brains of the operation.

I want to do the vast majority of my playing from the A88 - thus I have the need to program splits for it.

I NEED to control multiple Montage parts from the A88 (e.g. lower keys play a Rhodes, while upper keys play horns).

The Kronos and other synths achieve this. The Montage makes this completely impossible.

Yamaha, if you're listening: a critical feature is missing from the MIDI implementation of this otherwise stunning keyboard and it represents such a problem for me as to possibly have to turn around and SELL it and go back to my Kronos.
Sorry, I don’t know the capabilities of your particular controller, but if you wish to play the MONTAGE from an external controller that transmits on a single MIDI Channel, you need only match the MIDI I/O Mode Channel to the (Single) MIDI Channel you are sending.

On the MONTAGE:
Press [UTILITY] > touch “Settings” > touch “Advanced” > Set the MIDI I/O Mode = Single, Select a MIDI Channel for communication.

You can now play the MONTAGE same as it would be if you were playing the MONTAGE’s own Keys. All splits and layers are respected and play correctly.
It is fairly simple to setup and do what you require. Give it a try, let us know.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 5
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
BadMister,
it should be crystal clear to everybody that people want to combine the Montage and play SOME of its parts FROM an external Controller. There is no point in buying a Montage 6 and then buying an additional keyboard and schlepp it around, just to mirror splits and layers from the Montage on it.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 6
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
BadMister,
come on! We are talking now for about two years about the very same thing. People want to play some parts on the Montage, and some parts (from the Montage) controlled by an external controller. Read again what I wrote. This task can be accomplished on every other multitimbral keyboard with the exception of the Montage where it is doable only with complex midi controllers which have more than one part/zone and which are able to send on multiple midi channels at once. Those midi controller are extremely rare these days. Also, my second sentence is more than crystal clear. There is no point in having two keyboards just to mirror the same identical splits from one keyboard on the other one. In that case one could by a Montage 8 on the first place and deal just with one keyboard instead of two. I'm absolutely sure you know exactly what people do complain about.
I don't hesitate to praise the Montage where it excels. In the same way I don't hesitate where it doesn't deliver.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 7
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
+1, Sladjan!

I still hope that Yamaha will fix this soon.
I also hope that BadMister is not a filter who says to Yamaha 'the people don't need it'... because that simply is not true!
For live use - playing two keyboards, Yamaha Montage 6 on top - I need to be able to create independ splits on the Yamaha Montage and on my other keyboard.

Of course I can create simple splits now and play only one or two parts of a performance on my Nord.
But I still dream to play as many parts as I like on my Nord.
That can be done very easily if we could set the receive channel of each part individually.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 8
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
All replys on this thread coming from Bad Mister. All in defense of an important feature notably missing which impacts many users. And all erroneously assuming user error. Comments like: "Really? Wow, Please give your Montage to someone else who can understand what's on offer" are the worst kind of unconstructive insult, and not something I, or the other users who've spent multiple thousands of dollars will consider a solution.

As stated in another thread: The ONE MIDI CHANNEL PER PART forced limitation means that you CANNOT program the Montage to do splits for an external controller unless you forfeit doing splits on the Montage. Kronos X does not impose this limitation, and perhaps more constructively, neither does Motif.

A firmware update could bring the Montage to expected MIDI compliance. Simply allow the user to manually specify the MIDI receive channel for each Part. By all means, DEFAULT the channel assignment to match the current Part number - that's actually helpful. But allow the user to override as needed.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 9
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
+1 Robert.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 10
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I don't own a Montage ("only" MOXF), but I guess the reason why it has not been implemented is the multi-part / multi channel performances of Montage (like CFX). My understanding is these performances are controlled by the "KBD CTRL" structure and allow for enhanced (multi-channel) controls.

What I never quite got, however, is how MIDI I/O Mode = Single works, because in this Mode at the end of the day it is again possible to control these multi part instruments via a single MIDI channel? Although effectively the Montage becomes monotimbral.

I would guess, an intermediate mode between "MULTI" and "SINGLE" , allowing for selecting the receive channel, would be technically possible (users have already experimented with short circuiting MIDI ports...), but maybe Yamaha has shied away to implement it because it could be complicated to implement and/or to handle for users (maybe the multi part instruments would create a complicated mess if receive channels are not assigned properly). Still I'd say they should do it for advanced users.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 11
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I don't own a Montage ("only" MOXF), but I guess the reason why it has not been implemented is the multi-part / multi channel performances of Montage (like CFX). My understanding is these performances are controlled by the "KBD CTRL" structure and allow for enhanced (multi-channel) controls.

What I never quite got, however, is how MIDI I/O Mode = Single works, because in this mode at the end of the day it is again possible to control these multi part instruments via a single MIDI channel? Although effectively the Montage becomes monotimbral.

I would guess, an intermediate mode between "MULTI" and "SINGLE" , allowing for selecting the receive channel, would be technically possible (users have already experimented with short circuiting MIDI ports...), but maybe Yamaha has shied away to implement it because it could be complicated to implement and/or to handle for users (maybe the multi part instruments would create a complicated mess if receive channels are not assigned properly). Still I'd say they should do it for advanced users. But it won't be as easy as in Motif or MOXF.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 12
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
+1 Robert
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 13
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