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  1. Jim
  2. YC61 Stage Keyboard
  3. Tuesday, 19 May 2020
Don't know if you are wired into the discussion at the Keyboard Corner but some are struggling to get the rotary speaker sim to sound satisfactory especially on tremolo. There's something in the mid range that's causing a shrill beating sound...it's like the horn is wobbling off axis while spinning or it's interacting with some range of frequencies from the organ...it's same issue for both sim models. Was it designed intentionally to be this way? I've used the EQ to tone it down around 2K hz but I can't get rid of it. Don't want to come across as a complainer...it's a great board and I know there are always kinks to work out when one first comes out.
Responses (15)
Blake
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Hello,

I'm not sure what "especially on tremolo" is referring to here as tremolo is an effect apart from the rotary speaker.

You can edit the Horn and Rotor Level balance (a very useful tweak), increase/decrease Background Noise, change from stereo to mono (I find running mono gets me closer to a vintage sound), adjust speed and acceleration of the rotor and use the EQ to dial it in. Additionally, tweaking the Organ sound itself, adjusting leakage and choosing a different H model is important as well.

Everyone has their own opinion about the right organ/rotary speaker system sound. I'm pretty confident you have the tools inside YC to get there.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. YC61 Stage Keyboard
  3. # 1
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Thanks Blake...the fast speed on a Leslie is often called tremolo so that's why i referred to it as such. I've tried all the things you suggested other than running it in mono which I will try. You are 100% correct that everybody has an opinion about what Leslie sims sound more "authentic"...of course the Neo Vent is usually cited as the gold standard. I am used to the Nord sim which is very sanitized where the sim in the YC is definitely earthier. I've grown more used to it over the past few days...it's just when there are sympathetic half and double beats to that of the fast speed of the horn and they interact with certain mid frequencies that I get a little uncomfortable with it. Try it with some headphones on and I'm sure you'll hear it clearly.

Anyway, having a great time with all the other clever features Yamaha has put in the YC61. I've already been able to dial up some interesting Live Sets both functionally and sonically. I see there have been regular OS updates that have added voices to the CP series. Not to rush it...but I like forward to similar updates for the YC...especially tapping what seems like a lot of untapped potential for the FM engine.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. YC61 Stage Keyboard
  3. # 2
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Hi, I have a B with a 122 Lesile, it's a older setup,but its "The One".. Heres some downloaded info on TRUE Leslie 122 Speeds..On both settings, the treble horn rotates slightly faster than the bass woofer; about 50 revolutions per minute (rpm) for "chorale" and 400 rpm for "tremolo", compared to the woofer's 40 rpm and 340 rpm respectively.
You also have to take in consideration of what amp your using,Each amp sounds different so ,That is when you use the EQ on the right of your YC-61.. I fine tune the accel and decel of the horn and rotor..Never make them the same because a real Leslie's belts slip speeding up and down.. I'm still comparing My YC-61 to My Real Hammond setup.. Enjoy!!!
  1. more than a month ago
  2. YC61 Stage Keyboard
  3. # 3
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Hi Jim -
Thanks for the figures on the real 122 rotor speeds --
It's been a long time since I heard one 'in the flesh' so to speak. I used to work as a Hammond 'tech' back in the day (read 1970s !) and I well remember how every single Hammond/Leslie combination always sounded a bit different - even those of the same model combinations!
Depended on the room acoustics as well of course (most of my service calls were to domestic installations, rather than live concert ones) ... plus how well the belt tensions were adjusted etc.. etc...
I think the variable adjustments on the YC61 are a brilliant idea - although I do have to agree with you on the annoying 'half rate' beats you seem to get - especially on headphones.
Still - as you say - early days yet. There maybe a few more 'tweaks' to come over the next few months..
Yamaha certainly seem to have put a lot of thought into their 'earthier' rotary sims so far.....here's hoping they can go a bit further?...
  1. more than a month ago
  2. YC61 Stage Keyboard
  3. # 4
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I've had this board for a little over 2 weeks and I can say without a doubt it has the WORST rotary speaker sim I've ever heard. The stereo spread is almost non-existant, and very harsh on the right side. The attack is 3 to 4 decibels louder on the right than on left.
I actually just purchased an EHX 'Lester K' to give me a more proper rotary speaker sound. I'll be turning off the rotary speaker on the YC61.

Please, Yamaha ... fix this noisy beast and give it the kind of stereo spread you have on the Montage.
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Want to contributors to this thread to know there are two Jim's here. I'm the OP. The other Jim posted the Leslie speeds so credit where credit is due. I've tried to change my posting name but can't figure out how....so I will call myself Jim J in any posts for the time being. Appreciate others expressing their concerns with the Leslie sim and hopeful that Yamaha is willing and able to make some adjustments in an OS update.
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I'll admit I know very little about the workings of a real rotary speaker but how hard can it be? It's a speaker that rotates to cause a sound effect, correct? It's a swirling, growling, sound in motion.

Even if the sound effect isn't exactly same as a real rotary speaker it still sounds like a cool sound effect to me.

I'd have to have very detailed experiences with the real deal before I could speak to the nuance comparison of this simulator to the real system.

How far off can Yamaha actually be to mimicking this swirling sound in motion? They've dabbled with this on prior boards and then built this organ from the ground up based on wisdom of the past & their technology. If they can make it better they will since this is an organ focused board. That's it primary function plus I'm betting the organ section & other areas get expanded eventually. Just a hunch of mine that the best might be yet to come.
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Not sure why the rotary speaker sim on the YC-61 is so different than on the Montage/MODX. This one is off-balanced, shrill and has about a 45-degree stereo spread. On the Montage/MODX, the speaker is wonderful, swirly, centered, rich, vibrant and you can go from 0-degrees (effectively mono) all the way out to a glorious 180-degree spread.
When you’re playing this live, it sounds like there’s one old, creaky Leslie clone on the right side of the stage with a bad rotor or something.
I can’t figure out why Yamaha felt the need to reinvent the wheel here when they already had a great rotary speaker effect. Listen to this one against any other competitor keyboard or stereo pedal, and you’ll hear it plane.
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Considering they had it exactly right on the Montage is strange. If it ain't broke don't fix it. I assume you updated the OS on the YC61 and it's still problematic. The good news is that they can revert back to the Montage version unless there's something about the architecture that prevents it. It should be the opposite in that the organ focused YC stage keyboard should out perform the synth Montage in the area of Organ by default.
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Yes, I updated to the latest OS the second day I had it.
Don't get me wrong - lot's to love about the YC61. It's just that damn rotary speaker sim befuddles me!
FWIW, I've owned some version of each of Yamaha's top-tier keyboards since the 90's, except for the older CP70's and the Genos. I even had a DX7 back in the 80's! And yes, I do kick myself from time to time for letting it go when "newer, better" keyboards started coming out :s
I currently have a Clavinova, MotifXS, MODX8 (wanted the Montage 8 but it's too dang heavy for my age!) and got this YC61 as soon as it was available. Yamaha never disappointed me before this, and now it's only the rotary speaker. I have a Roland VR730 that has a much better rotary speaker sim than the YC61.
I do hope they get that improved in a future update - and SOON!
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
For those who are still exploring, among the YC effects is one called "Simple Rotary" (#13 of 32). Just listened to some demos of the MODX rotary and to me it sounds pretty similar to the sim they have on there. It's a little choppy but if you take the depth down it is useable IMO...at least until we (hopefully) get an update of the primary one. Other than that it's not adjustable of course...but at least you can clearly hear the speakers spinning on fast without all the artifacts.
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Just speculating about the rotary effect - even though the Montage/MODX rotary effect is some improvement over the original launch version - the rotary speaker emulation on Montage/MODX (as good as it may be) is still not generally as highly regarded as other more dedicated products on the market.

Given that this feedback exists - and even Yamaha partners/consultants have shared their less-than-favorable thoughts about the emulation (in Montage/MODX) - what better way to gain market research on attempts to improve the emulation than on a product that is more organ focused? Even if Yamaha misses the mark - I think it's great that they continue to develop new sounds/effects in an attempt to improve upon the past.

That said, I do tend to agree that improvements should try to be adders and not replacements. Even though there was honest feedback of Montage/MODX's rotary speaker having some issues in the realism department - your ears do start to get accustomed to sounds. Even changing an initial impression from underwhelmed to favoring a sound. So a good approach would be to "bury" the Montage/MODX rotary speaker effect somewhere and offer up the "new and improved" version as default to maximize potential for feedback. While still providing a parachute back to legacy.

Sitting on the other side of the fence - I'd love to see some of the work on YC migrate over to YC's siblings.

Love seeing true organists putting this instrument through the paces.
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I became my YC61 today. I bought it especially for Oran sound. I had a Korg CX3, a Hammond XK3, a Nord C2D, a Nord Stage etc. My first oppinion today is: oh, it is not so bad as you tell it here in the forum.
The Leslie on my Montage was so bad, that I did it never use on stage. I uses a Uhl Organ with the HX3 engine.

OK, now I have a YC61 because it is less than 8 kg!!! For lower manual i will take my CP 73 (teribble Organ sound) and play the sounds from the CY61.
In the next weeks I will compare the sound with my really thing, a hammond A102 from USA (1962) with an original Leslie. And I think there is much you can adjust in th menu. After this tests I have a real comparison if the sound is near to the original.
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Hi this is Jim #1..AKA YamahaJim.. I own a MODX7 and a YC-61 and IS NOT the same Leslie effect as on the MODX.. It has 1/2 the Settings.. Why???? You can get a Much better Rotary speaker out of the MODX.. I also have a "B with a 122 Leslie" which neither can compare, But I really hope they look into all these complaints..The Leslie Effect on the YC-61 is Seriously a Let down!!!. It Kicks a$$ every where else, so Yamaha,STEP UP and FIX THIS!!!! I'm Counting on You!!! Thanks..
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I certainly don't have real organ expertise. I turned off my speakers & went to the headphones to get a more intimate sense of the rotary. It does seem to wobble within a tight field side to side. Seems to only partially shift off center and back again. I have no other boards to compare it to but I used to own the Montage and Genos which I didn't test to this degree.I wonder if more organ adjustments can be added to the menu such as the spread of the rotary effect within the sound field. Doesn't this also depend on the speaker position & placement of the real organ within its environment or proximity to walls & other barriers etc.? I did switch my YC sound to mono and it got worse or far less defined.

I set the speed to (top to bottom in the menu) 50.5; 41.1;499.6;300.3 which seems to smooth out the transition between fast and slow.
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