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  1. Robert
  2. MONTAGE
  3. Monday, 23 September 2019
I tried the Hybrid mode together with Zone master. I think that maybe I don't fully understand though. Why don't they work at the same time? When I engage zone master, I cannot play from my external keyboard (no sound). When I disengage it, everything works. But then I have the same sound on both keyboards, which obviously I don't want. What goes wrong?
Responses (26)
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
We moved your post to it’s own thread, although the same topic, what you maybe be attempting is certainly different.

Why don’t they work at the same time? They don’t, Zone functions require that they are in charge of what get transmitted Out — that is, using the MONTAGE as a master keyboard controller. It overrides the I/O Modes Single and Hybrid (which are focused on allowing simple one channel controllers can play the Multi Part MONTAGE Performances via MIDI).

Tell us what you are trying to do. Are you communicating with a computer, is a DAW involved, are there hardware synths/modules involved, are there soft synths involved, are there other controllers involved... (each setup is a snowflake).

We’ll try to help you sort it out.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 1
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Bad Mister, thanks for your quick response. What I am trying to do is play the Montage piano (multi part) on the Montage keyboard. On my Nord I want to play let's say some strings and another instrument, coming from the Montage, as a split or layered. I'm using my Nord as an extra keyboard.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 2
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Bad Mister, thanks for your quick response. What I am trying to do is play the Montage piano (multi part) on the Montage keyboard. On my Nord I want to play let's say some strings and another instrument, coming from the Montage, as a split or layered. I'm using my Nord as an extra keyboard.
You are not using the MONTAGE as a MIDI Controller. Your description says you are transmitting from the Nord into the MONTAGE... the Nord is playing strings (?) layered or split with another MONTAGE sound (?) is that right?

How many Zones (MIDI Channels) does the Nord Transmit on?
Can it play its own Tone Generator and send Out on a different MIDI channel.

You will not be using the Zone function at all, the MONTAGE is not a controller in your description (if I’m reading it correctly).
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 3
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
That is right, all the sound will be coming from the Montage. The Nord transmits 2 channels if I use a split. but 1 should be enough if I can make different note ranges or layers on the Montage. As long as I can play my piano on the Montage at the same time.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 4
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
For me, it makes sense to use the hybrid function; create different parts as a layer or as splits all on the same midi channel and then play them from the Nord keyboard. But when I do that, I cannot play other parts on the Montage, or can I? I am obligated to engage Kbd Ctrl. I guess what I would like is the exact opposite: one Midi channel for the parts without Kbd Ctrl engaged.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 5
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Hybrid mode isn't what you were looking for to get this working. You were looking for reverse hybrid. Where the PARTs that had keyboard control OFF would somehow merge together into a single channel. This way you could have a multi-PART instrument in PARTs 9-16 controlled by an external master that your local Montage keyboard would not play (you wouldn't select any of these) and you could have another multi-PART instrument in PARTs 1-8 controlled by local keys.

Sticking a computer/tablet between to reroute the MIDI has always been an option and is really the best option despite the extra bulk and reliability concerns.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 6
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
FYI ... I was typing up my last response at the same time you were typing yours and didn't see your "I guess ..." until I had already hit "send".
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 7
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I was afraid that would be the conclusion. Doesn't anybody use the Montage as a live instrument anymore? Without the need for a laptop? I considered this to be the main improvement in version 3.0...
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 8
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Press releases read:
Improved MIDI capability with a hybrid MIDI mode makes integrating MONTAGE or MODX with MIDI gear even easier.


Thus far, the example given for how to use this feature is in the context of a DAW (use with a computer). And for that application, it makes sense. It would help to have a few practical examples given as a deeper dive to help users understand if hybrid mode offers any new MIDI configuration options which help interfacing with external single-zone keyboards. Generally that's the sort of gear users have been pushing for more MIDI routing options and are going to be initially looking at Hybrid MIDI I/O mode as something that helps (rightly or wrongly).
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 9
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I was afraid that would be the conclusion. Doesn't anybody use the Montage as a live instrument anymore? Without the need for a laptop? I considered this to be the main improvement in version 3.0...
I use it as a live instrument together with a MODX. I use an IPad connected to the Montage with Camelot. Works pretty well and I was using the IPad for the score sheets anyway. It was even connected via MIDI already because I use some button on the Montage for flipping pages.

Since I am a couple of thousand miles away from home I cannot try the new mode to see if it does everything I need. Will do that next week...
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 10
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I fail to see the use of so many possibilities for sending MIDI data, and none to receive it. I just want to use my Montage sounds, 2 keyboards, on stage without computer. A basic setup. What a disappointment.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 11
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Wouldn't it be great to have a basic feature like free allocation of midi channels? I wonder why nobody ever has thought about that before. Despite around 1000 requests.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 12
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
What a great idea, Robert!

Free allocation of midi channels!

Then I can finally use the Montage 6 in my live-setup (without computers or ipads)!

It's about time after 3 years...
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 13
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Have you guys tried the Hybrid mode yet? Try it first
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 14
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Hi C,

I think the Hybrid MIDI I/O is not the solution here, unfortunately.

Say I want to use the Montage 6 on top of a Nord Stage 2.

I want to play 'CFX & DX7 & Strings' (say part 1-5 of the Montage 6) on the keyboard of the Nord Stage 2.
And I want to play a split of 'Organ' (from the Nord) and a layer 'Brass and Strings' (say part 6-7 of the Montage 6) on the Montage.

So
Montage 6: | Organ / Brass & Strings |
Nord Stage: | CFX & DX7 & Strings | (sounds from the Montage 6)

How can I do that without a computer or iPad?


(The Nord can send on two midi channels at once)

(On my old Motif XF I just set the midi receive channels of part 1-5 on the same channel and I was still be able to make splits and layers on the Motif XF)
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 15
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I was afraid that would be the conclusion. Doesn't anybody use the Montage as a live instrument anymore? Without the need for a laptop? I considered this to be the main improvement in version 3.0...


I am totally astonished as to why they chose not to implement freely assignable midi receive channels. It seems ridiculous. Maybe it is just not the way the designers intend the device to be used.

On the plus side, the new Roland Fantom seems to have freely assignable midi receive. P43 in the manual: https://static.roland.com/assets/media/pdf/FANTOM-6_7_8_reference_eng01_W.pdf. So thats something ;)
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 16
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Hi Andreas,

It's nice to know that the Roland Fantom can do this (like almost any other synth/workstation).

I am totally astonished as to why they chose not to implement freely assignable midi receive channels. It seems ridiculous. Maybe it is just not the way the designers intend the device to be used.

To me it seems ridiculous if the designers intend not to use the Yamaha Montage with other keyboards in a live set-up without a computer or iPad.

So again, please, fix this issue!
Thank you very much x
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 17
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Maybe in v3.1?
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 18
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Does Hybrid Mode relegate parts 1 -8 to a single receive channel and retain the hard coded channels 9 -16? Is there any documentation on hybrid mode?

Thanks
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 19
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Does Hybrid Mode relegate parts 1 -8 to a single receive channel and retain the hard coded channels 9 -16? Is there any documentation on hybrid mode?
Not exactly. MIDI I/O Mode = Hybrid takes all Parts actively linked by the KBD CTRL Function and allows you address them on a Single selected MIDI Channel, and whenever you are playing (in communication) with any of these “linked” Parts you will be transmitting on that selected MIDI Channel.

All non-linked Parts Transmit and Receive on their correspondingly number Channel.

If you set HYBRID and choose Channel 12, all KBD CTRL Parts will respond to MIDI Channel 12. If you are playing the MONTAGE keys and any one of those “linked” sounds is selected or the upper [COMMON] button is lit, (for example, you've just pressed the HOME button) all of the linked KBD CTRL sounds are capable of responding. This is the same as when playing most any Factory Performance. You are playing them all - so you bring in by Super Knob, some are under control of Arps, some only sound when press an AsSw, etc... but they are “linked” to be one entity.

If you have the other Part slots filled with other Single Part programs, (each the equivalent of a Motif XF) because they are not linked, they are selectable and playable individually.

If you have 2-Parts “linked” by KBD CTRL, then Parts 3-16 are available as individually selectable synths. This means you can address them via MIDI by transmitting on their Channel.
If you have 3-Parts “linked” by KBD CTRL, then Parts 4-16 are available as individual synths and are playable via MIDI.

If you set the Hybrid Channel to a Channel already occupied by a non-linked Part you will receive an error in the form of an exclamation mark in front of that Channel. For example, if you want to play “CFX Concert” from an external weighted controller - Parts 1, 2, 3 and 4 are linked by KBD CTRL, setting the Hybrid Channel to 12 would mean they receive/transmit on 12. If a Part already occupies the selected channel, !12 will appear, signifying it will be overridden by the “CFX Concert” now occupying Channel 12

The MONTAGE is normally in Multi (MIDI I/O Mode) this allows multiple channel transmit and multiple channel receive.
It also supports the Zone Master Function.

Activating a Zone on any of the 16 Parts of a Performance will automatically override (defeat) MIDI I/O Modes Single and Hybrid.
When Zone is Enabled, the settings you make for that Performance override Hybrid Mode, override Single Mode.
By definition, Zone Control means Multi.

Articles will start to populate the LEARN section shortly...
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 20
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