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  1. Tony
  2. Sherlock Holmes
  3. MOTIF RACK XS
  4. Thursday, 01 December 2016
Hello Again!

I've had an FW16e in the back of my Motif Rack XS for a while, and have decided to set aside the next couple of weeks to working on getting it implemented. My primary objectives are:

Have more assignable outputs so I can provide a more detailed feed to the FOH mixer.


Okay, so I only have one, but the truth is I really don't know what else this might give me! :)

I followed almost all the steps outlined in this topic.

When I say almost, I mean that I don't have Cubase, and at least in my limited knowledge it didn't seem to be necessary for my goal.

So, I've installed the Steinberg FW Driver ver. 1.7.5, XS Extension ver. 1.6.1, and I am running ver. 1.6.6 of the XS Rack Editor.

For hardware, I am using an old Presonus FireStudio 2626. I have a short 6-pin IEEE cable going from the FW16e to the Rack XS, and another going from the FW16e to the Presonus. The Main Outs of the Presonus are plugged into my speakers. BTW, Presonus' Universal Control is installed as well.

If I go to the Configure Speakers section of AudioMidi Setup, clicking the Test buttons generates a test tone to the speakers, but at the moment I cannot get output from the Rack XS.

On the Yamaha Steinberg FW icon within System Preferences (Mac Control Panel), I have three tabs. The General tab is set to 44.1kHz, Word Clock Master is set to MOTIF-RACK XS, and Clock Source is set to Internal. On the MOTIF-RACK XS tab, it shows Firmware Version IEEE1394 V1.08. Lastly, on the About tab it shows Ver. 1.7.5.

Here's the Audio Midi Setup screens:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ae8nhovguw36e0u/Audio%20MIDI%20Setup.tiff?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/r8obvjz89ldgnad/AudioMidiSetup.tiff?dl=0

Let me know if there is anything else you need!

Seriously Grateful,
Tony Gardner
Responses (4)
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I've had an FW16e in the back of my Motif Rack XS for a while, and have decided to set aside the next couple of weeks to working on getting it implemented. My primary objectives are:

Have more assignable outputs so I can provide a more detailed feed to the FOH mixer.
Hi Tony,
I'm sorry to inform you but the FW16E delivers multiple audio outputs to a computer (only) - for the purpose of recording only. That is the designed intent. It will not, repeat, not help you reach your primary objective. The FW driver (Yamaha Steinberg FW driver) is designed to allow the FW16E to send audio from a Motif-Rack XS, Motif XS and/or Motif XF to a computer. Allowing each device to communicate audio OUT via 16 audio buses per device. It additionally handles MIDI communication with the computer. But only between each device and the computer. Recording being the goal.

We will limit our explanation here to just the Rack XS. The FW16E installed in the Rack XS allows it to be both an audio and MIDI interface to the computer. It establishes a peer-to-peer relationship with the computer. It cannot communicate with your PreSonus device via FW, sorry, it does not work like that. So I'm afraid your primary goal is not going to be supported by the FW16E

I could tell you the long (hard) story of how Yamaha attempted to establish such an industry-wide standard for audio/MIDI communication beginning back in 1996 with the mLAN protocol, but being so far in front of the technology curve we were unsuccessful in establishing true networking between audio devices regardless of manufacturer (only Kurzweil, Korg and a few other companies, oddly enough PreSonus was one, adopted the protocol with any products. And even then not all came to market). But let's not go back there.

Long story shortened, the concept lives on in the one-to-one relationship between tone generator and computer. This one-to-one (peer-to-peer) Setup allows you to record audio and MIDI via the Rack XS to a computer DAW capable of running an ASIO driver. The goal is audio/MIDI recording to computer DAW.

What you can do concerning your goal:
Connect the Motif-Rack XS to your mixer via the analog outputs. The Rack XS gives you the Main stereo L&R plus two assignable outputs, via 1/4" cables.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MOTIF RACK XS
  3. # 1
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Thanks for the straight up answer, Phil. Please don't worry about it -- I'm very happy to go back to USB via SM2. At least it works!

BTW, I've also been busy soldering my own connector wires to fully exploit the assignable outputs. I route all outputs through a Whirlwind pcDIq (quad stereo DI), then run an eight channel snake to my Presonus StudioLive 16.4.2. mixer.

At first, I made a simple 1/4" to RCA mono and got a decent mono feed. Then I tried a splitter, but that didn't give me much benefit, so I tried using a TRS to dual RCA insert cable, and that gave me twice as many sends to the mixer just by panning hard left or right on any given voice.

Here's a slightly more advanced multi with six mono and one stereo voice:
1. Drums (panned left). Output to Drums -> stereo left on pcDIq Channel 1 -> StudioLive Channel 1
2. Percussion (panned right). Output to Drums -> stereo right on pcDIq Channel 1 -> StudioLive Channel 2
3. Bass (panned left). Output to asL -> stereo left on pcDIq Channel 2 -> StudioLive Channel 3
4. Synth Pad (panned right). Output to asL -> stereo right on pcDIq Channel 2 -> StudioLive Channel 4
5. Trumpet (panned left) -> Output to asR -> stereo left on pcDIq Channel 3 -> StudioLive Channel 5 [Voice is Set to MIDI Channel 5 for 2nd keyboard]
6. Sax (panned right). Output to asR -> stereo right on pcDIq Channel 3 -> StudioLive Channel 6 [Voice is Set to MIDI Channel 5 for 2nd keyboard]
7/8. Piano (stereo). Output to L&R -> full stereo on pcDIq Channel 4 -> StudioLive Channel 7/8

This method pretty much allows me to send sufficient voice separation to the sound man for FOH mixing.

Anybody wanna buy a used FW16e? :)
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MOTIF RACK XS
  3. # 2
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Hey Everyone.

I just wanted to apologize for my last post. In truth, I didn't test out panning on the Assignable outs. So far, regardless of which cable I use, since asL and asR are MONO, I'm not really able to PAN to two different channels on my mixer.

Of course, if anyone has actually pulled off getting more than three outs to a mixer, please let me know!

For now, I will plan to use MIDI to adjust each part's level. To accomplish this feat, I had to turn off the "Layer Parts 1-4" option, and program my MIDI Solutions Router to send messages coming from channel 1 to all the other channels. It sounds a little crazy, but so far, it appears to be working.

Tony
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MOTIF RACK XS
  3. # 3
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Hey Everyone.

Just a quick "note" to let you know that I didn't use a hardware based MIDI method to control volume levels via CC#7 on each channel. With the MIDI Solutions Router, I was limited to 10 parameters. I tried getting the iPad Multi Editor app working, but so far can't get it to connect (separate post). I even went ahead and bought an iConnectMIDI4+, but it arrived two days before the show, and I couldn't get it work right out of the box, so I went with another solution which I thought was pretty darn cool.

Okay, so imagine that I've got my MacBook Pro running the Rack XS Editor sitting on top of the Motif Rack XS at my right hand, and my FOH sound guy is working the mixing board. I gave him my Windows laptop running Chrome Remote Desktop so he could connect to my MacBook Pro (also running Chrome Remote Desktop), and now we're both interacting with the Rack XS Editor simultaneously! He really liked that solution because he could also tweak the EQ. If we made changes during soundcheck that we wanted to keep for the show, I hit "Store" on the Motif Rack XS, so it was good to go come showtime.

I think for the future, I REALLY want to try using the FW16e again. Of course, I would have to route everything through my DAW, but since it has assignable outputs, it should be possible to use my DAW as a "bridge" to get to the Presonus StudioLive 16.4.2.

Cheers,
Tony G.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MOTIF RACK XS
  3. # 4
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