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  1. Rainer
  2. Sherlock Holmes The Voice
  3. MONTAGE
  4. Thursday, 31 October 2019
Hello to all,

is it posible to use the arrow keys to navigate through the Pattern Sequencer?
and looks it like the Motif XF Pattern Sequencer?

For me as a blind user it will be helpful to know that.
If not it needs new skills for the workflow.
I do not find any shortcuts in the manual and the discription from Bad Mister.
Thanks for any help
Rainer
Responses (8)
Blake
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Hi Ranier,

Yes, you can navigate the Pattern Sequencer with the arrow keys. When in edit mode you can use the arrow keys to change different parameters within each page, but you have to use the touch screen to get to each editing level (overview, track, song, etc.). The good thing is those are all over on the far right of the screen and can be accessed since they are always in the same place. I have actually worked with people with varying degrees of visual impairment and they found it manageable.

Does this help? Let us know!
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 1
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
@ Ranier,

I have been thinking about your questions for a few days. The last couple of days I have retried using the Pattern Sequencer, for my own benefit, and with you (and others similarly afflicted) in the back of my mind.

A few things concern me for sighted users, that compound if you can't see what's going on and (more importantly) what's going wrong. It is far too easy to do the wrong things when working with the Pattern Sequencer.

In some ways you have an enormous benefit. You're likely only selecting parts and their values via the buttons, dials and sliders, not the touchscreen. Even before reading your question I was coming to thinking that avoiding use of the touchscreen to select and edit the states of parts was wise. I think, for sanity, the touchscreen should be avoided in Pattern Sequencer usage, as it causes a lot of unwanted switching and state changing.

Yet I haven't found a reliable and consistent way to move up and down through the modes of using the Pattern Sequencer without some use of the touchscreen, and referencing it to be sure what state it is in, and what level of Performance editing I'm currently in. This doesn't work smoothly even with a combination of touchscreen and button usage. There's something wrong about the navigation I haven't quite yet put my finger on.

It wasn't designed in a good way. It is as though the programmers are new to the touch and screen paradigms, and weren't provided with any kind of guidance, and definitely no governance.

Due to the finicky manner in which the Pattern Sequencer operates in a modal yet undisciplined manner, and the fact that nobody from Yamaha, nor the youtube community, has yet managed to outline its functionality, operation and paradigms, and despite having no familiarity with the Motif XF Pattern Sequencer, I think it's wise to consider this thing a bit of a misstep by Yamaha. And experiment with it accordingly.

It seems rushed, at the very least. And poorly conceived.

With the concurrent MIDI abilities of the Parts of a Performance from the Yamaha Montage and MODX, there might be interesting choices for hardware based sequencing and control. I don't know much about these other forms of sequencing, but am about to begin investigating because none of the PC/Mac DAW options have gelled with my composing daughter, and the Pattern Sequencer is a brutal exercise in frustration and flailing.

If I come across something that works well, I'll let you know.

In the meantime, I can offer little other than "good luck", because battling the nuances of the Pattern Sequencer hasn't been fun, for me. I kind of get it, now, so if you have any other questions I'll try to be more helpful.

Is there a way I can type terminology words (with highlighting or quotes or similar) so that they are obvious to you as use of terminology rather than merely words in a sentence?

I ask because communicating about using Montage and MODX requires significant use of their terminology, in the contexts of their paradigms and processes. And this is true for everyone, so if there's a way to make clear which is phrasing and wording versus terminology and labels, it will likely work for everyone to use that means of differentiation.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 2
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
You could [b]bold[/b] them. Or [u]underline[/u]

Addressing your assessment for non-impaired-sighted users:

For me, the general usage of the Pattern Seq is similar to the rest of the features - so I see nothing especially bad about its use relative to other features. I wasn't wanting/needing any form of sequencer - but it's good that it's there for others as I would like the product to be successful which helps "fund" the development of other features I am more prone to use (or future spins of related keyboards). What I can use is some rudimentary editing of the user ARPs after I record a rough draft. This is what I used in the past - lining up note-to-note timing, gate timing, evening out the velocity. That's easy to do. I'm not going to be constructing songs although that sort of use is there.

That doesn't mean much for those who use it differently - but it's now easier overall to clean up user arps for me without having to break out the computer.

I haven't tried using buttons for this - but there are a handful of operations that cannot be done with buttons as it is. So I would think the touchscreen is needed for a few things Rainer currently does on Montage.

In the open Youtube world - I suppose your (and my) lack of posting a video is as much of a reason there's not one there as Yamaha's or some keyboard influencer's.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 3
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
You could [b]bold[/b] them. Or [u]underline[/u]



I'm well aware of the different means of formatting text.

I'm specifically asking Rainer about textual means of differentiating terminology from normal usage of normal words because there are likely ways that are best suited to the means by which text is read or otherwise made available to blind people. These means were probably designed to retain context, maximise throughput and flow, and provide the best information digestion, retention and referencing. These are probably solved problems, that I know nothing about.

Given some insight into that info on how blind people are best provided hierarchy in text, it's then possible for sighted folks to also benefit from those means of textual differentiation. And this is likely easier than coming up with yet another legend for yet another hierarchical textual presentation "system" that's as ad hoc as the next.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 4
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Hello Blake,

thank You for the answer.

I'm wondering that the Shift functions with the two Button rows on the right are not working in Pattern Mode. In other menus they work fine. So it is easy for me to jump into the submenus etc.

I will have a look over the navigation in the next few days.

I asked this thing because You can not bring up any User Arp from PC or MAC as a blind user through the Yamaha Connect app/plugin. This thing is not accessible. So I need the Pattern sequencer for programming my own Arps for using whem in my own Performaces.

For sure it is easier to use a DAW like Reaper or Logic Pro X to program MIDI-files but it is not posible for me to send it into the Montage as a User Arp.
That's the point why I need the Pattern sequencer.

Rainer
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 5
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Hello Andrew and Jason,

In my message before I tell You why I need the Pattern sequencer.

So it needs skills to understand the navigation through all parameters and switchings through the menus and submenus.
And I will work to make discriptions for making the displays accessible for blind and visually impaired users.

It is good to know there the cursor is focus on by starting a mode. How many rows with how many parameters are on the display and how to navigate from one to another.
And here some problems will start in the Montage/MoDX I think.
Sometimes if You switch between some modes on a display the view of the display is changing. An now You have one mor parameter or one less.
and that is difficult to manage. In earlier machines it was easier to know there You are and the manuals are better in explaining how it works. In these days they are mor complicated discripted. And You must read often two or three Manuals at the same time to understand how it works.
Here it will be a good idea to have a speech engine in the machine it can help to use all this things the same as a sighted person can do.
The Genos has some of that features rudimentally but the MOntage/MoDX do not have this feature.

So we need a good discription for having an acceptable work flow.

Rainer
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 6
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
@Rainer

I was surprised to learn that the [SHIFT] + Number A [1]-[16] buttons were not working in the Pattern Sequencer screen. I just tested this and found that the buttons are working fine for the Pattern Sequencer. That said - there are items you may need to navigate that do not have access through any of the menus. There are other "job" functions that may fit this category (that are not accessed through menus, but rather buttons or wormholes) - but you may not be interested in using those as much as the Pattern Jobs.

To access the pattern job menus, you can:

1) Press the "Play" button in the transport section of buttons to the left of the touch screen.
2) Press the right arrow button once
3) Press the down arrow button once
4) Press the [ENTER] button

Now you're in the "Pattern" (Job) screen where you can edit various features of the current pattern. You can use the [SHIFT] + Number A [1-8] to switch between the menu tabs once here.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 7
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Hello Jason,

thank You for this answer about using the Shift functions.

I will check it out today. And thank You for the navigating thing.

Rainer
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 8
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