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  1. Rod
  2. Sherlock Holmes The Voice
  3. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  4. Saturday, 29 December 2018
Having side-tracked myself into another exercise involving a 3rd party Library named 'Ultimate Analog', I wanted to convert ('import') 51 Pfs out of 573 for further work. I auditioned the lot and marked 51 as 'Favourite' thinking I could 'Import to User' but just select the 'Favourites' to be actually imported. But they're not so marked in the listing! How can I select just the 'Favourites' to be imported to User please? Or do I have to import the entire 573 Pf Library and audition them all over again? Neither is the 'Favourites' list itself included in the things that can be imported to User.

I also tried placing my selections in the 'Live Set' group - but can find no way of importing those to User either - indeed, no way of copying them to the User area at all. Is that possible? I realise that normally they would have come from the User area in the first place (or the pre-sets) - but I thought Yamaha would've thought that 3rd party stuff would be put there too. So is there a way to copy Live Sets to the User area?

Thanks!
Responses (11)
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I think you could go into Utilities and use the Content manager to save a copy of that Performance into your user area.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 1
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Sorry, I’m not familiar with any MONTAGE Library called Ultimate Analog containing 573 Performances.
Also it is not clear what exactly you are attempting to do with it.

Your question shows you are unclear on the purpose of the Favorite Category... it has nothing, whatever, to do with the Library Import feature. Favorite is a function of Category Search, not Library assembly.
Your question also shows you are unclear on the role of the Live Set... it has nothing, whatever, to do with the Library Import feature.
Live Set is a function of placing ‘shortcuts’ to your Performances... it is a set list. A LIVE SET is always dependent upon the Performances being in a specific location.

When you put a User Bank into a Library location by saving as .X7L and then installing it, the User Live Set becomes a Library Live Set... because it is guaranteed to find the Performances in the right locations. When you Library Import, the LIVE SET is not imported... if you think about it, of course it isn’t. Everything is moving to a different location. The Performances are imported to the current User Bank... the act of “importing” does not Overwrite anything.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 2
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Hello BM - 'Ultimate Analog' is a 3rd party Library that I downloaded from somewhere 2 years ago. It works perfectly on Montage, but so far as I know has nothing to do with Yamaha. I want to select 51 Pfs from the 573 on offer - to obtain that 51 I auditioned each of the 573, and marked them as 'Favourites' - which took a while. I very reasonably assumed that they would also be marked as Favourites when I came to 'Import to User' - but they are not. Yamaha provide the facility to select which Pfs are to actually be imported to User, which is a very useful feature - so I expected the 'Favourite' marker to have been included when importing the Library (or parts of it) to the User area, as indicators of those I had selected.

This is not the case, apparently, so I would suggest it be considered for the next update.

^The 'Live Set' attempt was in desperation. I did not expect it to work - it's more of an Arranger function that a Synthesiser function.

So, to return to my problem, you're confirming that I have to load the Ultimate Analog Library, then 'Import to User' the entire Library, then audition the whole thing again (it'll be easier this time), then delete the 522 I don't want cluttering up the User area. BUT - with the Library converted to User files, will the 'Favourire' markers show up when I come to delete the 522? Or will I have to make notes of the 51 names I actually want? Or perhaps you know a better way - that would not surprise me in the least! But at the same time, Montage has many flaws and could be this is one of them!
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 3
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I can probably find you a simpler way but you’ll need to describe the nature of the 573 Library... for example, here are my specific questions:
1) are custom sample Waveforms involved?
2) what type(s) of File(s) were provided? .X7U? .X7L? Both?

Let us know
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 4
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Having side-tracked myself into another exercise involving a 3rd party Library named 'Ultimate Analog', I wanted to convert ('import') 51 Pfs out of 573 for further work. I auditioned the lot and marked 51 as 'Favourite' thinking I could 'Import to User' but just select the 'Favourites' to be actually imported. But they're not so marked in the listing! How can I select just the 'Favourites' to be imported to User please? Or do I have to import the entire 573 Pf Library and audition them all over again? Neither is the 'Favourites' list itself included in the things that can be imported to User.

I also tried placing my selections in the 'Live Set' group - but can find no way of importing those to User either - indeed, no way of copying them to the User area at all. Is that possible? I realise that normally they would have come from the User area in the first place (or the pre-sets) - but I thought Yamaha would've thought that 3rd party stuff would be put there too. So is there a way to copy Live Sets to the User area?

Thanks!


I just finished to reorganize the libraries in my Montage, merging like 2-3 of them into 1, just selecting the favourite performances and the waveforms that they need to work, and I can tell you that the simplest way is to create a backup file of the Montage and then open it into John Melas Waveform Editor.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 5
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Hello Manuel, and thank you. I did wonder about the JM tools, which I'm sure can be useful in many circumstances, but for my purposes (as a sound producer) the Montage itself is better and faster for most things, Maybe not this time! We'll see ,,,

Hello BM! Regarding your questions, there are no custom waveforms involved. With 'Ultimate Analog' loaded, the Waveform Library is empty. Neither does the Library have an extension - together with ''Roland Jupiter' and 'DX7' Libraries. But all 3 load and work and save fine on the Montage.

I have been working on the problem again, but have got no further. Other than to expand my original 51 selections to 65! As the selections (Favorites) did not appear in the 'Import to User' listing I had to import all 573. Lo and behold, all my selections (Favorites) appeared again! Why on Earth are they not marked in the 'Import to User' listing? Anyway, I also found they were all listed twice in the 'Favorites' file. So I deleted the 'Ultimate Analog' Library from Montage, and sure enough my selections were only listed once in the 'Favorites' file. So if I then deleted the Ultimate Analog from the User area I'd lose the 'Favorites' as well, So that idea is no good.

So I thought I'd save the 'Favorites' file as a Library to USB, then I could delete the User area and bring them back. Can't do that as 'Favorites does not appear in the 'Save' function listing. Another dead end. So I tried writing down all the numbers of my selections, within pages for ease. Waste of time, as 'Category Search' pages come in 16 Pfs to the page - but the 'Utility' pages come in 12 Pfs to the page.

So I've had a wildly frustrating afternoon! All I want to do is experiment with producing new sounds by mixing sounds from the 'Ultimate Analog' collection - without having to trawl through 36 pages of unassigned sounds at every step! 4 pages is bad enough! I'm hoping you can suggest a solution! I guess the 'Favorites' only point to the original library and don't include waveforms etc:, so is there any way out?
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 6
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I just finished to reorganize the libraries in my Montage, merging like 2-3 of them into 1, just selecting the favourite performances and the waveforms that they need to work, and I can tell you that the simplest way is to create a backup file of the Montage and then open it into John Melas Waveform Editor.
@Manuel, Absolutely! Once you’ve used the Melas Waveform Editor you can’t imagine any other method of manipulating your data.

However, for those who have not gotten this extremely useful software, or who don’t have access to any of the computer-based utilities, managing data on board the instrument is still a possibility.
I think those who wind up having issues don’t really “get” the difference between the User (RAM) and Library (ROM) locations.... or the differences between managing internal data versus data in the files. And there is no expectation that this should be immediately apparent. But it works the way it does for a reason.

@Rod
A workflow where a file’s data has been placed into a ROM Library... might be to first: play through the Performances and either marking those you like as Favorite, or immediately moving the ones you like to the User Bank. Either way the goal is to get the “keepers” into the User Bank. Now or later.

I find it important to “know” the following facts so that you can proceed with confidence.
_ Data that has been placed in a Library already has a File. You have that file. It is either in a .X7L or a legacy .X0A, .X3A, .X6A File... you are in no danger of losing this dat unless you misplace the File.
_ Data currently in your User Bank either was loaded from an existing file, or is newly created/imported data. Therefore, you should always create a User File after an editing session if new “keeper” data was generated. If you created nothing new, then relax, you have a means to get back this User Bank.

Learning to use the [UTILITY] > “Settings” > “System” > “Initialize User Data” function, with confidence, when getting ready to build a library, is an essential. Most people I speak to who have issue with the memory system, I find it stems from their unwillingness to overwrite the current User Bank (the fear of losing data they worked on). Which if you don’t “get over” you can’t proceed with confidence.

Hello BM! Regarding your questions, there are no custom waveforms involved. With 'Ultimate Analog' loaded, the Waveform Library is empty.
Forgive me, but if you are referring to the [UTILITY] > “Contents” > “Data Utility” > “Waveform” Folder... this folder would NOT give you any indication about Waveform data in your ROM Library. This folder indicates Waveforms currently in the USER RAM Waveform Bank.

In order to see the Waveform List of a Library you would do the following...
press [CATEGORY SEARCH]
Touch “Init” > “Init Normal (AWM2)” > [ENTER]
From the HOME screen
Press [EDIT]
Press [Part Select 1]
Touch “Elem1” > “Osc/Tune”
Touch the box with Waveform Name

A pop-in menu appears with “Category Search”
You can now search the MONTAGE Waveform List’s (Waveform Search is amber)
Set the “Bank” = the name of the Library you wish search
If the field appears empty, then and only then can you conclude whether the Library you installed to a Flash ROM Library location contains any Waveform data.

You may also want to verify if there are any custom Arpeggio data included in the Library. A ROM Library would install Arp phrases into memory. These would be found by conduction an Arpeggio Category Search with the Bank set to your Library’s Name.

If, you find that there are no Library Waveforms and no Library Arpeggios are included, then you can do the following...
From the HOME screen:
Double click the [CATEGORY SEARCH] button
This selects your 51 “Favorites”
You can transfer these to the User Bank (as mentioned previously... you can, after auditioning, simply press [STORE], this will place a copy of the file in the USER Bank.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 7
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Hello BM - all kinds of useful stuff there - I'll check the waveforms the right way to see if 'Ultimate Analog' has any. And the double click trick! That's handy! And I should have known the 'Store' method anyway. Meanwhile I've solved my own problem by simply using the 'Favorites' as a User Bank (I say that because changes made stay changed, whereas they don't in a Library). Having produced a new Pf I 'Store' it in the User Bank. Job done. That told me I can 'Store' the 'Favorites' in the same way. (I'm learning to spell 'Favorites' the short way!). So a great deal of progress made after several days of self-inflicted frustration! I'll come back later with the waveform gen - I'm currently away ... may 2019 bring you continued success and contentment (and a raise - tell Yamaha your clients say you deserve a raise ... )
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 8
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Hello again BM - I'm back in my 'Musicube' and have checked the ROM for waveforms with 'Ultimate Analog' as instructed, and have found 38 listed. Must they all be present in that one Library? Or can there be others? I ask because 8 of the entries are all 'Group 1' whatever that may mean, and 17 more are various types of 'Bozy' waveforms, which I believe are associated with the Bosendorfer Imperial Grand. It is obviously possible that they were indeed used in the 'Ultimate Analog' collection, just seems a little unlikely. At the end of the day, it is easier and much faster than what I wanted to do - Montage still has many tricks up its sleeve ...
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 9
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Let’s try this one more time, please read carefully:

In order to see the Waveform List of a Library you would do the following...
press [CATEGORY SEARCH]
Touch “Init” > “Init Normal (AWM2)” > [ENTER]
From the HOME screen
Press [EDIT]
Press [Part Select 1]
Touch “Elem1” > “Osc/Tune”
Touch the box with Waveform Name

A pop-in menu appears with “Category Search”
You can now search the MONTAGE Waveform List’s (Waveform Search is amber)
Set the “Bank” = the name of the Library you wish search
(Underlined for emphasis)

When using Category Search, by setting the Bank you refine the search to JUST that particular Bank. This is a fundamental you must command with confidence. This is how you know exactly what you are looking at... each Flash installed Library wears the name of the File you used to load it to that location.

The Bosendorfer Waveforms will be the only Waveforms showing if you set the Waveform Category Search “Bank” = Bosendorfer.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 10
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Hello BM - yes, that's exactly what I did. To be sure, I did it all again exactly as you specified, and got exactly the same result. However - I have 3 versions of 'Ultimate Analog' - the original download with 573 Pfs - then 'UA1' which is derived directly (and only) from the original, partly assigned and a little shorter at 568 Pfs, and finally a 'UA2' which is a further refined version of 'UA1'. Both 'UA1' and 'UA2' have the same 38 waveforms showing up in the Waveform Category Search (ROM) when selected.

I then re-loaded from the USB the original 'Ultimate Analog' as downloaded, and checked that, and things got interesting! All my 'Favorites' markers had disappeared - which is probably normal - but this time the Waveform Category Search (using the procedure exactly as you specified) came up empty. I did it all again but this time selecting 'User' Bank, which contained only the 'Imported to User' original 'Ultimate Analog' Library, and it came up with the same result - zero in the Waveform Category Search.

Also. when I loaded from the USB, I selected the 'Ultimate Analog' Library from the USB listing (where it had no extension) and it re-appeared as a single box - but with an .X7L extension. Touched that and it loaded normally. It must have done that before - but I wasn't paying attention!

So how and where the 38 maverick Waveforms came from, I have no idea. In the early days I had few clues as to what I was actually doing on Montage, so it is quite possible that I did some impossible thing that added them, unknown to me. Yamaha engineers could spend years trying to figure out what I did! Back in my manufacturing days, we found the best way to test anything was to give it to the customers - they'd break it in a dozen different ways within a week ...

Thank you for your patience, but this time I really did get it right - but earlier tinkering produced the wrong result, I fancy ...
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 11
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