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  1. Raymund
  2. MODX
  3. Thursday, 26 December 2019
Hi everyone, first of all a wonderful Xmas.

Now you are sitting doing nothing under the ?, maybe you can as well help me out with the following ?.

I want to play my MODX 7 from the MODX keyboard itself, but also from my Roland A88 master keyboard. Limitation of the Roland A88: it can only send at 2 midi channels simultaneously. If want to layer more than 2 MODX parts playing from the Roland, I have to select "single mode" or 'hybrid mode" from the Utility menu on the MODX (together with Keyboard Control buttons in the performance).
This is a good solution, BUT the major downside is, that in that case, I can only play one part simultaneously from the MODX keyboard?. At least, as far as I know and tried.

My goal is: playing 3 ore more parts from each keyboard (MODX and Roland A88) at the same time.

Any ideas?from external keyboard and MODX keyboard

Hi everyone, first of all a wonderful Xmas.

Now you are sitting doing nothing under the ?, maybe you can as well help me out with the following ?.

I want to play my MODX 7 from the MODX keyboard itself, but also from my Roland A88 master keyboard. Limitation of the Roland A88: it can only send at 2 midi channels simultaneously. If want to layer more than 2 MODX parts playing from the Roland, I have to select "single mode" or 'hybrid mode" from the Utility menu on the MODX (together with Keyboard Control buttons in the performance).
This is a good solution, BUT the major downside is, that in that case, I can only play one part simultaneously from the MODX keyboard?. At least, as far as I know and tried.

My goal is: playing 3 ore more parts from each keyboard (MODX and Roland A88) at the same time.

Any ideas?
Responses (7)
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
If you change the request from “Part” to “instrument” then learning to program is the solution. You give us no information about the sounds you want, just that you wish to change fundamental definitions and concepts of how your products work. Assuming that you’ve considered programming the instruments you want within the definitions and rules of your hardware and ruled it out, you are left with the following choices...

A car moves on wheels, just because you want it to fly doesn’t change the fundamental definition of the car.

Solutions: if you want your external controller to play more MODX Parts than it has Zones to transmit, then you should contact the manufacturer of that product and request more Zones. If it transmitted on three Zones, you then could play three Parts on the MODX via MIDI, it doesn’t (it is the ‘car’ in this analogy).

As you know, a MODX Performance can have 16 Parts, you can program as many of the first 8 Parts to sound from a single Keyboard (KBD Control).
if you want to play three Parts using the MODX keys, you have many, many, many examples of this among your 2195 MODX Factory Performances — so we don’t need to cover that or how that happens. I view your question as “How do I get my two zone MIDI controller to have a third zone?”

It is possible you can use a third party application like Camelot Pro, to help your situation:
Camelot Pro

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  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX
  3. # 1
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Hi Bad Mister,

I think we do not understand each other correctly. Maybe because I used the word MODX keyboard, where I meant 'keybed".

You mention:
"Solutions: if you want your external controller to play more MODX Parts than it has Zones to transmit, then you should contact the manufacturer of that product and request more Zones'

But that is not the problem I have. I can use upto 8 parts from my master keyboard, no problem, and I do not need extra zones on that master keyboard. Just use hybrid mode
The problem however is that I don't know how to play layered parts on the MODX keybed at the same time. The MODX keybed only allows me to play a single part.
From a DAW I could play multiple / layered parts, but not from the MODX keybed.
At least, that is how far I came until now. Did I miss something there?

Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to change concepts or want to let cars to fly ?.

I know Camelot, it indeed could solve the issue but for now I would rather not use this for multiple reasons.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX
  3. # 2
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
The problem however is that I don't know how to play layered parts on the MODX keybed at the same time. The MODX keybed only allows me to play a single part.
The MODX automatically plays up to eight layered Parts at the same time, it is your external controller that can only play a limited number of Parts!

I completely understood you.

MIDI I/O Mode = Hybrid is designed so that when using the MODX with a DAW, you can transmit Out on a single MIDI channel. This helps with documenting instruments that are created using multiple Parts (like CFX Concert, or Seattle Sections).

MIDI I/O Mode = Single can be used by external controllers that only transmit on one channel.

What you need is for your external controller to transmit on 3 channels, simultaneously.

My goal is: playing 3 ore more parts from each keyboard (MODX and Roland A88) at the same time.
The MODX can do its part, it can be used to play 3 or more Parts from its keyboard, to be clear, it is the other keyboard that cannot trigger 3 or more sounds on the MODX... to do so it would need to have at least three or more zone capability!

Forgive me for looking at this from the MODX point-of-view. You are telling me that by co-opting Hybrid Mode to make up for the number of Parts your external keyboard is going to control, you now want the MODX to be the airplane. For the MODX to fly, it uses its own system!

If you were to ask “What kind of controller should I buy to accomplish “My goal”?”, and I read your stated goal, I would recommend getting an external keyboard controller that is capable of transmitting on three or more Zones simultaneously. I hope that is clear.

You have other options, but they involve learning to program within the Motion Control Synthesis Engine. A single Part on the MODX can easily function as two instrument sounds... a single Part has eight oscillators, what you choose to do with them is up to you.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX
  3. # 3
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Ok. Get your point.

But, let's leave out the Master Keyboard. Suppose I use it the way it is designed : play a DAW connected to the Modx, with the Modx in hybrid mode. Channel 1 of the DAW drives two parts of the MODX for CFX concert. The DAW controls via channel 3 to 6 part 3 to 6 for other single part voices and drums that are added to the performance.
With hybrid mode that would work fine as I understand.

But, suppose I am on stage and want to play along with the DAW tracks on the MODX keybed. Playing along with a voice that consists of 2 parts # 7 and #8 in the same performance. How would I do that? Or would you consider this as 'misuse' of the hybrid mode?
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX
  3. # 4
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
But, let's leave out the Master Keyboard. Suppose I use it the way it is designed : play a DAW connected to the Modx, with the Modx in hybrid mode. Channel 1 of the DAW drives two parts of the MODX for CFX concert. The DAW controls via channel 3 to 6 part 3 to 6 for other single part voices and drums that are added to the performance.
With hybrid mode that would work fine as I understand.
Except that “CFX Concert” is four Parts... if you play this Performance in MIDI I/O Mode = Multi, you are transmitting on four MIDI Channels.

But, suppose I am on stage and want to play along with the DAW tracks on the MODX keybed. Playing along with a voice that consists of 2 parts # 7 and #8 in the same performance. How would I do that? Or would you consider this as 'misuse' of the hybrid mode?
That should not be a problem; if you are using the DAW as a playback device, that changes everything. (Unless are you doing a recording session while on stage?)

When playing a Performance like “CFX Concert” the MODX transmits four streams of data (Multi) or just one stream of data (Hybrid). When recording to a DAW you would use HYBRID — this makes it easier to manage and edit. During your recording session, you would use Hybrid Mode to Record, Edit, and Playback... However, once you finalize your MIDI edits (on the single stream)... You would copy the edited Track to three other Tracks... Set each of the Tracks to Output on a separate Channel.

This way all Parts that are playing back from the DAW are addressed by their own Track. This leaves the Hybrid Mode for use for your on stage functions.

Additionally, PARTs of a MODX Performance can easily be EXCHANGED. There is no reason to keep the “CFX Concert” in PARTs 1-4 if all it is doing is playing back... Leaving the “CFX Concert” in PARTs 1-4, is a luxury. I would reserve PARTs 1-8 as first choice for sounds that I’m going to interact with “live” (from either keyboard, the MODX keys or the external controller’s keys).

The eight SCENE buttons allow you to select any combination of the KBD CTRL available Parts when using the MODX standalone, however, the introduction of the DAW means you can work with Local Control Off on the keyboards, and do the re-routing with active tracks in Cubase.

A DAW can turn your only transmits on two zones into a multi channel controller.
If you setup and *activate* three MIDI Tracks in Cubase set to receive MIDI In from that external MIDI controller, and set the MIDI Out to any three MIDI channels, your controller can trigger the correspondingly numbered three Parts of the MODX. If you setup three tracks with MIDI Out 6, 7, and 8 you can trigger PARTs 6, 7 and 8. No Hybrid Mode is necessary.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX
  3. # 5
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Hi Bad Mister,

Thank you very much for your detailed answer. I now understand with what purpose hybrid and single mode were designed and how to use it.

Regards Raymund
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX
  3. # 6
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
... you may be cleared up - but reading the thread I'm concerned perhaps others may be led astray depending on what pieces they choose to adopt as fact.

If want to layer more than 2 MODX parts playing from the Roland, I have to select "single mode" or 'hybrid mode" from the Utility menu on the MODX (together with Keyboard Control buttons in the performance).
This is a good solution, BUT the major downside is, that in that case, I can only play one part simultaneously from the MODX keyboard?


Note that using single or hybrid mode does not change how the local MODX keybed interacts with PARTs. It does change what MIDI channels are sent out from MODX - and it does change how MODX responds to external MIDI channels. But using Single Channel or Hybrid mode (vs Multi Channel) does not change or otherwise limit how local keys are able to interact with each PART.

In all modes - Multi Channel (the default), Single Channel, or Hybrid mode - the local MODX piano keys (keybed) will trigger all PARTs with Keyboard Control = ON. And all of these PARTs will follow rules of Note Limits (ranges) and Velocity Limits for each PART in order to determine if the piano key you press, at the velocity you press, is "seen" by each PART or not. In all 3 modes you can have up to 8 PARTs with keyboard control=ON and therefore 8 simultaneous PARTs maximum triggered by the MODX piano keys. All 3 modes. No difference.

The differences come in when you look at the MIDI transmitted from MODX (multiple channels or single channel) and, in the case of hybrid, how PARTs with keyboard control=OFF can interact with external MIDI input (and only on the channel matching the PART number of the corresponding PART with keyboard control=OFF). None of this has any impact on the relationship between local MODX piano keys and MODX PARTs.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX
  3. # 7
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