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  1. terry
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. Tuesday, 12 March 2019
I'm trying to make a performance that hast 3 parts, 1 piano 2 strings and 3 organ and have no foot controller volume for piano but have foot ctrl 1 volume for strings and foot ctrl 2 volume for organ and no matter what I try I just can't seem to get this right, I'm missing something here
Responses (25)
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I know something isn't working - but have no idea what you're observing that isn't functioning as intended. It would help if you outlined what's going wrong.

For presets the FC1 and FC2 have "default" settings. These defaults (conventions) do not have to be respected in your custom user or library Performance. FC1 is used for expression and FC2 is used to control super knob. This can be undone on a Performance-by-Performance basis. From [PERFORMANCE] (HOME), touch the Performance name - then touch "Edit" - then choose "Control" -> "Control Number". Then Change FC1 from 11 to something else outside of a standard CC and FC2 to something other than Superknob (again, outside of standard CC). Standard CCs would be anything Montage currently responds to - which are mostly low numbers and a few of the highs. 76-85 should be "safe". By removing the "convention" associations, your PARTs can use FC1 and FC2 as controller sources to offset Part volumes without the FC1/FC2 also mucking with Superknob or Expression.

I'm just taking a shot in the dark with the above. Going on a generic "something is broken" gives me very little to work with.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 1
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I can achieve what I'm trying to do by turning off the vol/exp on the piano, then using FT Ctrl 1 set to 11 on the strings ,then setting the third part to control the organ by using the super knob for volume and controlling the super knob with FT Ctrl 2 and it will work like that but I should be able to control the volume of the organ part by the FT Ctrl 2 {set to 11} without involving the super knob but when I try that then foot 2 just does the same thing as foot 1 both pedals just take the volume for the strings and organ up and down ,it should be separate though ,strings on one and organ on the other, it was easier to do this kind on stuff on the motif's
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 2
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Take 11 and superknob off (global Performance settings previously discussed). You do not have to involve super knob - to NOT involve superknob was the original guidance. Use CC76-85 (take your pick of one) and then (under each PART) setup the "Mod/Control"-> "Control Assign" source as FC1 or FC2 depending and destination as Part Volume. Bipolar curve so it adds and subtracts. This will not involve superknob at all.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 3
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
See the following MONTAGE CONNECT .X7B File Attachment: (zipped: Unzip and open with MONTAGE CONNECT. This will bulk this to your instrument's Edit Buffer).

Acoustic Piano fulltime
Strings FC1
Organ FC2

The Part 1 (piano) Volume is set by the Part 1 Volume Fader. Parts 2 (strings) and 3 (organ) have their Volume under the control of FC1 (cc3), and FC2 (cc4), respectively, such that Part Volume, 0-127, is determined by the physical position of the associated Foot Controller.
FtCtrl1.png
CC3 and CC4 are used because they do not have a fixed function -- meaning you can determine what parameter they are going to control. The Fader position for Parts 2 and 3, in this case, have no influence on the output. Foot Controllers will default to maximum (127) when a program is initially recalled.
Prt2Vol.png

Prt3Vol.png
Attachments (4)
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 4
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Thanks guys for all of this info, I was able to get it together by assigning FT 1&2 to 3 & 4 , I would really like to load in the file Bad Mister sent but my yamaha connect is working on my computer my os is 10.9 and my montage is 2.5 , can you please load this 2FC7s performance onto soundmondo then I can retrieve it from there , soundmondo is at least working for me, thanks
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 5
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Posted on Soundmondo now...
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 6
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I just got it in my montage and it's perfect, I can start using this as a template, thanks
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 7
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
is there a way to save this lay out ? which puts the organ elements on the faders ,everytime I try to save it ,it reverts back to the parts 1-8 20190313_180422.jpg
Attachments (1)
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 8
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I'm not sure about the screen display - but you can set the default mode for the sliders for their operation.

From [PERFORMANCE] (HOME), press the "Motion Control" -> "Overview" tab. The "Control Function" is displaying and can set the mode of the sliders. You can also get here by pressing [SHIFT] + [PERFORMANCE]

From the new features document:
Control Function
===============
Switches among Performance Control, Part Control, and Element/Operator Control.
Settings: Performance Control, Part Control, Elem/Op Control
NOTE You can now store Control function operations as Performance data.
NOTE Element/Operator Control can also be selected by simultaneously holding down the [SHIFT] button and using the [PART CONTROL]
buttons.

 When “Element/Operator Control” is selected
The Number A [1] – [16], Number B [1] – [8], and the Number C [1] – [8] buttons function the same as when “Part Control” is
selected.

When “Element/Operator Control” is selected and the PART [COMMON] button is ON, the Control Sliders 1 – 8 control the levels
of the Elements/Operators of Part 1.

NOTE Element/Operator Control is useful for playing Performances, for example, that contain single Organ Parts, because controlling the
volume of Elements in the Live Set display changes the harmonics of the Organ sound, just as with an actual organ.


Remember to [STORE] your Performance after making a change.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 9
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
That worked and it put it in the window, thanks
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 10
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
ok new problem, I created a performance: part 1 piano, part 6 organ, I'm able to play the organ from another keyboard transmitting midi out channel 6, so everything is working except when I play the montage I'm hearing the piano and organ and I just want to hear the piano when playing the montage and only hear the organ when I'm playing the other controller , it's like I need to turn the local off of just part 6 the organ , there has to be a way to achieve this I'm just not sure how
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 11
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
ok I figured it out, tif you turn the Kbd Ctrl green button that will kill the local for that part but it also kills the volume pedal for that part as well , any ideas?
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 12
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Does the phrase KBD CTRL make sense to you?

Translated it is “Keyboard Control” when active (green) you can control that Part with the local MONTAGE) Keys. Is that not clear? When deactivated, you must either *select* that Part directly or you can control it by transmitting IN on Ch6.

If you are triggering Part 6 from an external keyboard, it naturally follows that pressing its keys, moving its Knobs, it’s Sliders, it’s Wheels and pedals will be a part of that keyboard’s Control. Bet if you Bend the PB Wheel on that external keyboard Part 6 Pitch Bends... so it will be when you send in Volume messages IN on MIDI CHANNEL 6... (or if you directly select Part 6 on the MONTAGE).

Do you have a Foot Control Pedal you can plug into that external controller?
The pedal should be considered a function of the keyboard actually acting as *controller* of that Part.
Sending IN cc7 or cc11 on Channel 6 will Control the Volume of Part 6 while the internal KBD CTRL is deactivated.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 13
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
it's clear now, thanks
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 14
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
still working on my piano,string ,organ performances , and I concluded a have to make part one the organ so the elements will come up in the window and or ready to be controlled by the sliders, drawbar functions basically, it seems that I'm losing polyphony when using the sustain pedal so I have this problem when the parts are 1. organ 2. strings 3. piano but if I exchange 1 and 3 then I don't have this problem but I don't have the drawbar accessibility since the organ isn't part one , I posted the performance on soundmondo under my name terry drake performance Balad Piano/Str/B3 so please check it out and let me know if there's a way to fix this
also on the performance 2FC7s that bad mister made for me to solve my foot controller problems which did work I'm noticing know that when I engage the sustain pedal the strings go up a little in volume or something happens ,how do I stop that from happening?
I still can't get montage connect going and yes the usb button is set to on, the montage firmware is 2.50 ,I can boot up my mac in 10.9.5 or 10.11.6 ,I tried connect 1.03 and 1.05 and it's showing off line no matter what I try ,any ideas on that?
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 15
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
The connect version needs to match your firmware version. Older connect versions are not compatible with newer firmware versions. I don't have the breakdown of version compatibility - but there is such a thing. I cannot really help specifically with Mac - but the general uninstall/reinstall dance is probably similar. You could always have conflicting hardware/software. Others have noticed uninstalling something has broken the chains of bondage for getting the system to work. This is too varied of a set of possibilities to be any less vague.

Reordering the PARTs does place different PARTs in different priority slots in terms of polyphony. How the note-stealing decisions are made are set by which PART slot the elements/operators are living in. That you get a different result when you reorder the PARTs is expected. A drawbar organ is about the "worst" offender of polyphony stealing since it stacks so many oscillators on top of each other - all firing at the same time - and a bunch are silenced but still running. This is because you can hold down notes - not strike any more - and turn up/down the elements and hear them come in and not. So there are a lot of elements that fire off simultaneously. Normally, a better behaving - or less "wasteful" type PART would only have one element sounding at a time. If you strike the key harder - it sounds a different element - but just one at a time. Not all 8 at the same time.

If you steal polyphony away from an organ - it's probably going to still have elements left over to play sounds. Since there are so many elements that could be silenced and still have a cohesive sound (although maybe a different tonal color). If you have a PART that is playing only one element - if you steal from it - you're going to hear it like a sore thumb that's loud.

There's not a way to fix the fact that organs are expensive in terms of polyphony. Unfortunately, you can't assign sliders as controller sources - since one way out would be to have some of the organ come from samples - and some from FM-X. Then you could assign a set of sliders to target a different PART that's FM-X which doesn't take away polyphony from AWM2 (it has its own set). That's not to say you're out of luck.

Does your preferred organ sound ever have any of the sliders always all the way down? And never, for that slider, raising it? If so, you could turn that element OFF instead of having it muted with the slider. This would make the organ less polyphony hungry. Each element you turn off gains you that times the number of notes you mash polyphony. Maybe you can't do this.

Back to the FM-X deal. You could have your assignable knobs set to an FM-X set of drawbars so instead of using sliders - you use assignable knobs. Say you turn off 4 elements of the organ - but still want those frequency ranges - so you use an FM-X organ for those 4 drawbars and use 4 assignable knobs above where the sliders would have been for the AWM2 organ. Sort of strange to control - but still do-able. Scenes would help turning on both the AWM2 and FM-X organs together. Say you only have 4 different preset sounds you like your organ to sound like (think the inverted keys on the lower end of a Hammond tonewheel). You could dedicate 4 scenes for those 4 presets and never touch sliders or assignable knobs.

The root of this is to arrive at turning off elements of an organ PART that uses all 8 elements (normally) all of the time. And if you are to replace this with anything, replace it with an FM-X that uses its own pool.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 16
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Piano actually uses a Sustain pedal. It is, in fact, designed to mimic the behavior when used on this type of sound.
Strings do not actually have Sustain pedals. Their behavior to applying the pedal is to latch (remain) at the AEG Level reached at the time the pedal is engaged.
Organs do not have Sustain pedals. The behavior here is to remain at maximum Level throughout.

Any expectation of instrument behavior should be understood via understanding the stages of the Amplitude Envelope Generator... which describes attack, decay sustain and release. All acoustic percussive sounds will die out eventually. The vibration is started by hammering, striking, or plucking the Oscillating musical device. The sound will ultimately die out as gravity and air friction work against the vibration. The Sustain pedal on the piano does not literally sustain the piano strings, it simply prevents the felt dampers from muting the strings before they stop sounding (but rest asurded they would eventually stop oscillating.A percussive sound will always be defined by an envelope where DECAY 2 LEVEL = 0

The envelope is described by Time and Level parameters. “How much” Time it takes to reach the next Level point which determines “how loud”.
The Sustain pedal actually causes the sound to latch at DECAY 2 LEVEL... If, as on strings, this is not typically 0, the strings will sustain at whatever segment they have reached when the pedal is engaged. If, as on organs, where the Level stays at maximum as long as the key is engaged, Sustain will literally be Sustain!

You should defeat the Sustain pedal completely for the Organ.
You should adjust the String’s AEG to behave as you require. Typically, since bowed strings behave entirely different from plucked strings, you need to understand that bowed strings can continue endlessly. They do not fade out due to gravity or friction with the air... they can continue as long as the bow is applying downward pressure and movement. Bowed and blown instrument envelopes would typically feature a Decay 2 Level where as long as the key is held the sound continues. This allows you as keyboard player to control with Note duration the length of each sound.

If you would rather the bowed Strings behave like a Percussion instrument (like the piano) set the AEG so that it mimics the behavior of a piano (Decay 2 Level = 0).

I posted an edited version of your data — with the AEG settings for the String pad, as described... its on Soundmondo...
https://soundmondo.yamahasynth.com/voices/36381
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 17
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
thanks to both of you guys and you fixed my performance and I appreciate it and I can use that as a template, just one more thing I still find puzzling on the 2FC7s patch you posted for me, when you engage the sustain pedal the strings go up in volume at least 2 db , can you check your original I just did cause I wanted to make sure I hadn't altered it by accident, I'm just curious why it does that and how to stop it from doing that, although that could be done in tempo with your foot for another style of music as an effect but not for what I'm doing at the moment , thanks terry
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 18
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
or it's the filter that the sustain pedal is engaging which made me think the strings went up in volume on the 2FC7s performance but if I set the decay 2 to zero and turn off the sustain pedal for that part then it won't do it but I'd like to know how or why it was doing it or I'm just missing something you've probably already told me
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 19
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I don't know what sustain would do to increase the volume of a PART if you turned off sustain for that PART. Much like you would do for the organ.

Sustain is not a source controller for offsetting parameters - so, for example, you couldn't program "if sustain pressed, increase volume by +30". Sustain, while engaged and if recognized by the PART, will cause the notes to continue to sustain even if you press a different note. You will end up with simultaneous notes overlapping and this overlapping would be additive in both the frequency and amplitude (loudness). You seem to be describing something different, so I'm not sure what may be going on.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 20
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