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  1. seagreg
  2. Sherlock Holmes
  3. MONTAGE
  4. Wednesday, 23 October 2019
What if you like to load more then eight libraries. If you try to load the ninth library you will get “Library full”
With the eight libraries the memory of the MONTAGE looks like a Swiss cheese ? ( lots of holes )
Okay with the John Melas tools you’re able to to organise this Swiss cheese and fill the holes. That’s the good news. The bad news is that you will lose the library information.
That brings me back to my suggestion - from the last post - to add a field .....origin.
Responses (15)
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
In the meantime, you should spend your energy learning how to use the Search Engine in the instrument, you’ll realize that the ‘Swiss Cheese’ is all in your mind.

When viewing data in the Search engine or the Data Utility > Performance folder, you never see any empty spaces.
Data is listed according to how you set the search parameters. If you are searching for “Acoustic Piano” you can simply define a search through ‘All’ Acoustic Pianos; but you could refine the search to show only ‘Preset’ Acoustic Piano; you could even search for Performances with the letter ‘z’ in the name that are in a User Bank that are Acoustic Pianos.

No matter how you refine or narrow your search there are never any ‘holes’ shown. Your Swiss Cheese comment is curious - where are you seeing all the wholes?

A Library can hold 640 Performances. If you have a Library installed with just 16 Performances in it, you are making extremely poor use of the library (ROM).

There are a total of 5,120 Performances that can be stored in your Library area. (640 x 8 Libraries)
A user that does not learn to assemble their own Library data will, indeed be defeated when after installing 8 Libraries, they simply run out. If each Library they install has only 16 Performances in it, they will run out with only 128 total Performances installed.

A user that learns how the structure works, however, will realize there is no real benefit, beyond the separate search listing, to having just the 16 Bosendorfer Performances as the only thing in a Library. Or just the 16 Chick Corea Mark V Performances in a Library all by itself. Why leave 624 slots empty in each of those? You have weigh that against using the other locations you are leaving empty

It doesn’t take any kind of genius to realize to make more efficient use of the Library space would be to create composite Libraries.
Using only 16 out of 640, in a Library is not efficient use of the ROM area.
The only creativity it would take is coming up with a name for the combined Libraries. At the end of the day, you begin to realize, it is not that important. Your searches are more defined by the instrument “Main” and “Sub” Category headings, than they are by which Bank they are in.

A Power User of the System would realize that manipulating the Performances can be handled elegantly once you install all your data in ROM Libraries in a more or less 'permanent' layout. The key is to divide the data so that it can remain permanently in its place. Waveforms, Arpeggios and Performances are installed in the lowest numbered empty space, and cataloged internally. Once your Waveform data is installed in ROM, you can recall Performances via Bulk Dump. The custom Waveforms become the same as the Factory Waveforms... they have a permanent location - so the bulk data will refer to the correct location.

You can store a virtually unlimited number of Programs using a utility like MONTAGE CONNECT (which also integrates with the Cubase Media Bay/Sound Browser. Where you can rank, and customize the listings to suit your specific needs).

But in order to be on the power user level, you first must abandon the idea that there are *only* eight Libraries... especially if you are leaving them largely empty.

Even an intermediate user, one that does want to involve a computer at all, the reorganization of the data to make efficient use of the space is only logical. If eight is not enough — try looking at it from the perspective that you really don’t gain that much from keeping all the Bosendorfer Pianos in a whole 640 room mansion, when they all can fit one page.
Combining Libraries can be accomplished on board the instrument.
Combining libraries can be done with assistance of the highly recommended John Melas Tools.
There is no one situation that fits all users... everyone’s situation is different.

I deal with all types of scenarios, from studios and jingle writers, whose needs deal with having access to lots of choices - and detailed organization showing when, where, and for what, a sound was used. The ability to link the MONTAGE/MODX elegantly with the computer is key for this user.
I also deal with those who don’t even want to connect to a computer, because they don’t use one... and don’t have a usb cable.

I can’t afford to be judgmental on the situation, I have to solve the issue with the tools as given. Elegance is relative to the individual.
When doing it onboard ... Combining Libraries requires backing up all data... clearing the instrument.. and begin organization. It is not trivial, but then again you do it once properly and you will not need to do it again for quite a long time. Going over those Performances you are going to permanently install is a major project. Take the time to review the Main and SubCategory listing, customize the Performance name to suit your needs... ‘bozy’ is a commonly used abbreviation to include in Imperial Grand titles.

If you have installed Library data, and it’s something you’ll never use, you have to ask yourself, ‘why did I install it?’

If you are power user level, we highly recommend the John Melas Waveform Editor and Total Librarian Tools... and/or Cubase Media Bay.
If you are a gigging/intermediate user at home, and have access to a computer but don’t want to purchase any additional tools, you can use MONTAGE CONNECT and Cubase Media bay.
If you are a gigging/hobbyist at home and don’t use a computer, at all. You can, with just the on board features, manage and combine data.

The most elegant is using a computer - managing all data there and creating a MONTAGE compatible file that you can load. It’s faster, you have tons of memory to quickly copy and move data.
Naturally, expect to work harder and longer with just the memory on board the instrument. You will need to clear the instrument, and construct each Library, one at a time. Clearing the instrument as you build each. Finally, your last step is then installing them one after the other.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 1
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
A Library can hold 640 Performances. If you have a Library installed with just 16 Performances in it, you are making extremely poor use of the library (ROM).

A user that does not learn to assemble their own Library will, indeed be defeated when after installing 8 Libraries, they simply run out. If each Library they install has only 16 Performances in it they run out with only 128 total Performances installed.

A user that learns how the structure works, however, will realize there is no real benefit, beyond the separate search listing, to having just the 16 Bosendorfer Performances as the only thing in a Library. Or just the 16 Chick Corea Mark V Performances in a Library all by itself. Why leave 624 slots empty in each of those? You have weigh that against using the other locations you are leaving empty

I wish my biggest hurdle was having only 8 library slots...I'm having trouble getting past 5 libraries. My problem is that the libraries I like are mostly pianos or larger ones, so I struggle to find enough waveform space from the 1.75 GB available to fit all the libraries that I want to keep long term, and not have to remove & reload them.

I've actually been combining smaller libraries via Library Import into the User area. Any piano/large libraries, I leave in the library area, keeping track of the order in which they are loaded (including the LSB number). Then I create new Performances in the User area that point to these larger libraries (except for all the smaller libraries that I 'Library Import' their key Performances & Waveforms into the User area).

I wish I could just fit my 4 main 'keepers'; the Imperial Bosendorfer, Synthogy American Grand, my newly created 'Bechstein Piano' (via SampleRobot), and my newly created 'Synthogy Ivory C7 piano' libraries on the Montage at the same time, but the Synthogy Ivory C7 piano library is 750MB and that is as small as I could make it...It started out with nearly 2GB in size when I tried 8 velocity layers, but I have cut it back to 5 layers and 2 step notes, plus I cut back each note to the shortest length, with none longer than 21 seconds. So since that is my prefered piano, I will have to leave the Bechstein Piano (550MB) off the Montage.

Never hurts to ask...Is there any way to compress these new SampleRobot created piano libraries?
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 2
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I wish I could just fit my 4 main 'keepers'; the Imperial Bosendorfer, Synthogy American Grand, my newly created 'Bechstein Piano' (via SampleRobot), and my newly created 'Synthogy Ivory C7 piano' libraries on the Montage at the same time, but the Synthogy Ivory C7 piano library is 750MB and that is as small as I could make it...It started out with nearly 2GB in size when I tried 8 velocity layers, but I have cut it back to 5 layers and 2 step notes, plus I cut back each note to the shortest length, with none longer than 21 seconds. So since that is my prefered piano, I will have to leave the Bechstein Piano (550MB) off the Montage.

Never hurts to ask...Is there any way to compress these new SampleRobot created piano libraries?


The solution to double (and almost triple for piano sounds) exists and is the WXC Yamaha’s proprietary sample compression format. Montage is able to read and use this format: the problem is that Yamaha refuses to make it available to users who have such a SUB-UTILIZED synth.
We make our voices heard by voting on the ideascale proposal
References
  1. https://yamahasynth.ideascale.com/a/dtd/Lossless-audio-compression-double-the-user-Flash-sampling-time/208088-45978?comment=true#idea-tab-comments
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 3
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
The solution to double (and almost triple for piano sounds) exists and is the WXC Yamaha’s proprietary sample compression format. Montage is able to read and use this format: the problem is that Yamaha refuses to make it available to users who have such a SUB-UTILIZED synth.
We make our voices heard by voting on the ideascale proposal


Lossless audio compression to double the User Memory
https://yamahasynth.ideascale.com/a/dtd/Lossless-audio-compression-double-the-user-Flash-sampling-time/208088-45978

I have just up-voted your 'awesome' idea above, which is now my most sought after wish on ideascale for the Montage, and likely the easiest one for Yamaha to implement/provide, as it wouldn't require much new programming, if any, to give/sell us a utility that allows us to convert .WAV files to .WXC format. I would hope that the idea of Yamaha providing their synth owners the option to double their User memory, would be near the top of most people's list of wants! So everyone reading this, please "Up Vote" the idea above!! ;)
I also think it would be in Yamaha's best interest to give this to their customers (or sell for a reasonable price), as it would make their synths much more attractive & definitely increase their sales with potential buyers/existing owners knowing that you can double the number of User memory that they list for the Montage/MODX...

Previous to your idea, my #1 wish was to have Yamaha expand the number of PARTs that could be under KBD CTRL from 8 to either 12 or 16 ... See my idea on yamahasynth.ideascale.com below & please 'Up Vote' it if you like this idea! ;)

Expand KBD CTRL from 8 to 12 or 16 parts on the Montage/MODX
https://yamahasynth.ideascale.com/a/dtd/Expand-KBD-CTRL-to-16-parts-on-the-Montage-MODX/223218-45978
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 4
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
The solution to double (and almost triple for piano sounds) exists and is the WXC Yamaha’s proprietary sample compression format. Montage is able to read and use this format: the problem is that Yamaha refuses to make it available to users who have such a SUB-UTILIZED synth.
We make our voices heard by voting on the ideascale proposal


Lossless audio compression to double the User Memory
https://yamahasynth.ideascale.com/a/dtd/Lossless-audio-compression-double-the-user-Flash-sampling-time/208088-45978


I have just up-voted your 'awesome' idea above, which is now my most sought after wish on ideascale for the Montage, and likely the easiest one for Yamaha to implement/provide, as it wouldn't require much new programming, if any, to give/sell us a utility that allows us to convert .WAV files to .WXC format. I would hope that the idea of Yamaha providing their synth owners the option to double their User memory, would be near the top of most people's list of wants! So everyone reading this, please "Up Vote" the idea above!! ;)
I also think it would be in Yamaha's best interest to give this to their customers (or sell for a reasonable price), as it would make their synths much more attractive & definitely increase their sales with potential buyers/existing owners knowing that you can double the number of User memory that they list for the Montage/MODX...

Previous to your idea, my #1 wish was to have Yamaha expand the number of PARTs that could be under KBD CTRL from 8 to either 12 or 16 ... See my idea on yamahasynth.ideascale.com below & please 'Up Vote' it if you like this idea! ;)

Expand KBD CTRL from 8 to 12 or 16 parts on the Montage/MODX
https://yamahasynth.ideascale.com/a/dtd/Expand-KBD-CTRL-to-16-parts-on-the-Montage-MODX/223218-45978
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 5
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Lossless audio compression to double the User Memory
https://yamahasynth.ideascale.com/a/dtd/Lossless-audio-compression-double-the-user-Flash-sampling-time/208088-45978

I have just up-voted your 'awesome' idea above, which is now my most sought after wish on ideascale for the Montage, and likely the easiest one for Yamaha to implement/provide, as it wouldn't require much new programming, if any, to give/sell us a utility that allows us to convert .WAV files to .WXC format. I would hope that the idea of Yamaha providing their synth owners the option to double their User memory, would be near the top of most people's list of wants! So everyone reading this, please "Up Vote" the idea above!! ;)
I also think it would be in Yamaha's best interest to give this to their customers (or sell for a reasonable price), as it would make their synths much more attractive & definitely increase their sales with potential buyers/existing owners knowing that you can double the number of User memory that they list for the Montage/MODX...


Thanks for the vote :D :-) We hope for a "massive" participation :) to the idea and that above all Yamaha satisfies such a basic request :o
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 6
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Thanks for the vote :-) We hope for a "massive" participation :-) to the idea and that above all Yamaha satisfies such a basic request

No problem!
I didn't realize this was a possibility to increase User Memory via compression, as opposed to via increasing the physical User memory. Alternatively, it's too bad there isn't a way for Yamaha to program the Montage/MODX OS to convert or somehow use the compression algorithm on the .WAV file based Libraries to compress them the same automatically... Maybe it would be good to add this as an additional potential option to your idea, if it's a possibility to do..!?

Plus, secondary to promoting 'Up Voting' of your idea, I'm always looking for an opportunity to plug/promote my "Expand KBD CTRL from 8 to (12 or 16) PARTs on the Montage/MODX" idea & hopefully have more people 'Up Vote' it as well! <wink><wink> :D
https://yamahasynth.ideascale.com/a/dtd/Expand-KBD-CTRL-to-16-parts-on-the-Montage-MODX/223218-45978
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 7
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Darryl, I have already voted on your idea :D
The fact that there is the possibility of compressing in the WXC lossless format, is given by the American Grand Synthogy library which is not a Yamaha library, but from a partner company.:D
References
  1. https://eu.yamahamusicsoft.com/synth/american-grand-13
  2. https://synthogy.com/index.php/products/licensed-partners/synthogy-american-grand
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 8
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I don't understand why the Montage isn't like the Tyros in that USB drives can be accessed and used directly by the keyboard - the memory is thus expandable at will, more so as the Tyros has two USB ports - although that's easily provided on Montage by using a powered hub. There is probably some involved technical reason why it isn't so, but to me it would have been a design requirement right at the start.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 9
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
There are several things Yamaha could do to provide us with this compression functionality for waveforms in Libraries; however when I think about it probably the easiest one for Yamaha to do is provide this functionality to SampleRobot Montage Ed, and allow us to export compressed waveforms to libraries after sampling!
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 10
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Not sure how the content provider lobby is going to react to this. Exclusive rights to compression has been an ace up the sleeve of the at-cost content providers for generations.

Yamaha hasn't yet, to my knowledge, provided content providers (much less customers) a software method or Yamaha-managed service to convert incompatible waveform due to currently unsupported encodings (i.e. Inspiration In A Flash and others) to a new waveform type that is supported by Montage/MODX.

When I first read the original post I was thinking that one would likely run out of sample memory, as Darryl has already chimed in, before having to worry about a lack of slots to put Performances. I can see the argument for having more "folders" to place your content in if that's how you want to work. But that's not available to you - so you need to rely on something other than the "folder" itself (Library Slot) to provide the organization for you. You could create your own indexing system so the first (or last, or ...) 3 characters identify something about the Performance in the library - and use that as your "folder" name. So if you want to organize all of the Library electric pianos together - even if they were spread out among all 8 Library slots - you could start the name with "!E My Perf". Where "!E" is unique and means, to you, electric piano inside a library. "!E" is 3 characters because I'd put a space after it if at the beginning or a space before it if at the end. You can find all of these related by searching for "!E". That may be a lot of work renaming all the library Performances - but it's a way. There's probably similar ideas you could come up with to be able to "flag" for quick search related content within the library area.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 11
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
https://yamahasynth.ideascale.com/a/dtd/Lossless-audio-compression-double-the-user-Flash-sampling-time/208088-45978
from 16 to 34 in one day :)
thanks and hopefully sooner or later they will allow us to use the lossless codec :D
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 12
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Supporting better compression would be a good step, but the memory arrangement of the banks should be improved too. Having them be of locked size blocks rather than of variable length and allowing as many as the user wants is something that needs justification as it creates a usability compromise that's quite extreme.

Is there some problem with memory transfer in the Montage that would prevent insert/remove functionality from a single array wherein the banks were simply indices or addresses? Or does the ROM have limited writes?
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 13
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Supporting better compression would be a good step, but the memory arrangement of the banks should be improved too

I believe that the memory organization of the Montage is intelligent and efficient thanks to the distinction between user Bank and Library Banks (reading only). In addition, the fact that each performance is autonomous is a further facilitation of the exchange of libraries and sounds. With WXC lossless compression you would have more multisamples and I think it might be interesting to double the number of libraries from 8 to 16 ... or maybe 32 :D
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 14
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Bad Mister, is there an official position of Yamaha regarding the possibility of releasing the LOSSLESS WXC codec to users (perhaps in Sample Robot) so as to allow doubling or more of the sampling times with the same space occupied? thanks :D
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 15
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