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  1. AnotherScott
  2. The Voice
  3. MODX
  4. Tuesday, 02 October 2018
As discussed some posts down in the thread at https://yamahasynth.com/ask-a-question/performance-basics-and-the-live-set-ii I do a lot of left hand bass splits, but I thought it made more sense to start a new topic here than continue there. Here's the concern:

Obviously, once you dedicate a couple of octaves to bass, you can end up with fewer keys than you'd like for your RH sound, and so I've often wanted to do an octave shift on that RH sound on the fly, of course without affecting the LH bass sound (it's pitch or its key range). One of my few disappointments with the MOXF6 was that there was no way to do this (or if there was, I was unable to find it). So my question is, is there a way to do this on the MODX? I'm looking at the 76 anyway, which will help, but I'd still find it useful to be able to do this (as I've been able to do on some other boards).
Responses (15)
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
MODX has two buttons which can octave shift. These will shift the octave for the entire instrument - so both right hand and left hand are affected.

If you had 61 keys - then the difference between the highest octave shift + (up) and lowest octave shift - (down) should be 6 octaves (6x12 notes) = 72 notes. So between the highest and lowest setting with a MODX6 - you can get two different keyboards. You'd have to "spend" 4 PARTs to make this work and would be lots of gymnastics on the octave keys to manage. I wouldn't use this method.

Another method would be to use the parameter modulation feature of MODX. This is where you can set a controller as a SOURCE and one or more parameter as a DESTINATION. The screen is labeled "Mod/Control" where these assignments are made - although you can also use the [CONTROL ASSIGN] button to assign a controller you move to a parameter you have selected.

The parameter you want to target as the destination is the RH PART's note shift parameter. I would personally use a user curve with steps set at specific octaves and use the source controller as perhaps an assignable switch (to give one additional octave range) or use superknob as the source controller (moving an assignable knob) which allows for more than one octave range since you can say 1/3 of the travel of superknob is the lowest octave, the next 1/3 is the next octave, and next 1/3 is the last octave. Or even 4 ranges. Past 5 ranges, note shift becomes the incorrect parameter (+/-24 semi-tones gives you -2 oct, -1 oct, 0/no shift,+1 oct, +2 oct).

Scenes can set superknob, so you can setup scenes (if you want) to target a specific octave range of RH. Or, alternatively, superknob has two memory buttons on top of superknob which can move the superknob to two specific locations and those can be used to set any of two ranges for the upper/lower octave range switch.

Or you can use assignable switch 1 to add +12 semi-tones and assignable switch 2 to add +12 semi-tones. Turning on neither would be unison. either one of the switches would be 1 octave up. Both switches on would be 2 octaves up.

There are lots of options and routes to take for affecting the pitch of the right-hand.

A different take is that you could use scenes and mute. You could have PART 1 as LH bass, PART 2 as RH lead (low octave) PART 3 as RH lead (medium octave) and PART 4 as RH lead (high octave). Depending on how you want to shift the octave, scenes can mute 2 out of the 3 RH lead PARTs (2-4). Each of the PARTs 2-4 would be duplicates of each other with exception of the note shift value. This approach could have been used on MOXF - you would have had to deal with the PART/VOICE volume knobs or use the mute buttons. Overall, not as easy to manage as utilizing the one-touch scene buttons.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX
  3. # 1
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
MODX has two buttons which can octave shift. These will shift the octave for the entire instrument - so both right hand and left hand are affected.
Right, so that's obviously a no-go, same as it is on the MOXF.

If you had 61 keys - then the difference between the highest octave shift + (up) and lowest octave shift - (down) should be 6 octaves (6x12 notes) = 72 notes. So between the highest and lowest setting with a MODX6 - you can get two different keyboards. You'd have to "spend" 4 PARTs to make this work and would be lots of gymnastics on the octave keys to manage.
Right, plus (picking up from our conversation in that earlier thread), the left hand needs to continuously play bass, no pauses or glitches, so this wouldn't work from that respect. But interesting thinking outside the box!

Another method would be to use the parameter modulation feature of MODX. This is where you can set a controller as a SOURCE and one or more parameter as a DESTINATION. The screen is labeled "Mod/Control" where these assignments are made - although you can also use the [CONTROL ASSIGN] button to assign a controller you move to a parameter you have selected...The parameter you want to target as the destination is the RH PART's note shift parameter. I would personally use a user curve with steps set at specific octaves and use the source controller as perhaps an assignable switch (to give one additional octave range).
Now we're talking! Yes, the Note Shift parameter is the logical target, I did not know that you could create a "user curve with steps" and assign it to a switch, it sounds like that might have even worked with the MOXF. So then I could set up a Performance such that Assignable Switch 1 would perform a "Note Shift -12" operation on just a single part of the Performance, and Assignable Switch 2 would similarly perform a "Note Shift +12"... I think this would do what I need perfectly!

or use superknob as the source controller (moving an assignable knob) which allows for more than one octave range since you can say 1/3 of the travel of superknob is the lowest octave, the next 1/3 is the next octave, and next 1/3 is the last octave.
That sounds very workable as well, but if I have the choice of either approach, I think I'd like to leave the superknob free for other uses.

Or you can use assignable switch 1 to add +12 semi-tones and assignable switch 2 to add +12 semi-tones. Turning on neither would be unison. either one of the switches would be 1 octave up. Both switches on would be 2 octaves up.
Yes, this is a variation of what we're discussing a couple of paragraphs up, except I want up and down, rather than up and more up. But this is still the same approach, right? I mean you're still talking about assigning a Note Shift "user curve with steps" to a switch? Or were you talking about yet another way to do it here? Because this is indeed the result I want, and the question would then be what is the easiest way to get there.

A different take...You could have PART 1 as LH bass, PART 2 as RH lead (low octave) PART 3 as RH lead (medium octave) and PART 4 as RH lead (high octave)...Each of the PARTs 2-4 would be duplicates of each other with exception of the note shift value. This approach could have been used on MOXF - you would have had to deal with the PART/VOICE volume knobs or use the mute buttons.
If I understand what you're suggesting, this actually would not have worked on the MOXF in the scenario I described, where I also have to be able to change the Voice of the RH sound on the fly, without having the LH bass glitch (remember, much more limited seamless sound switching there). I did this on the MOXF by performing in "Edit" mode where I used the 16 buttons to select from 16 different RH sounds on the fly, while letting the LHB continue uninterrupted. But if I used the octave-switching scheme you're talking about, I would no longer be able to simply change RH from strings to brass with a single button (which works because, in Edit mode, I can leave it so that I'm always set up to instantly invoke the Part 2 sound)... I would have to cursor around and hit buttons to change the Part 2, Part 3, and Part 4 sounds every time I wanted to change RH sound, and that doesn't work when you have only 1 beat to make the change! But anyway, thanks for all the thoughts. It sounds like I will indeed be able to do what I want on the MODX, and in fact it might well have been do-able on the MOXF as well!
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX
  3. # 2
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Yes, this is a variation of what we're discussing a couple of paragraphs up, except I want up and down, rather than up and more up. But this is still the same approach, right? I mean you're still talking about assigning a Note Shift "user curve with steps" to a switch? Or were you talking about yet another way to do it here? Because this is indeed the result I want, and the question would then be what is the easiest way to get there.


You'll get more accustomed to how this all works when setting up your own programming. Up and Up is the same as Up and Down if you look at it from the right angle. If one button goes up by +12 and the other button goes up by +12 - then any one button is the middle, both buttons off are down (from the middle) and both on are up (from the middle). Just start with an offset (meaning programmed value in your Performance) starting at Noteshift = -12. If you really wanted up and down you can program that too. It's all the same. Just a difference in how you relate to the buttons. Whatever makes sense to you.

If I understand what you're suggesting, this actually would not have worked on the MOXF in the scenario I described, where I also have to be able to change the Voice of the RH sound on the fly, without having the LH bass glitch (remember, much more limited seamless sound switching there).


I was only talking about moving octaves of the RH - not switching between RH sounds. You can move octaves around on MOXF using this technique. Switching RH sounds is a different story.

Even with the broad suggestions given - there are implementation variations you, the programmer, can decide which provide many choices. What you're wanting to do is not limited by the keyboard.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX
  3. # 3
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Yes, this is a variation of what we're discussing a couple of paragraphs up, except I want up and down, rather than up and more up. But this is still the same approach, right? I mean you're still talking about assigning a Note Shift "user curve with steps" to a switch? Or were you talking about yet another way to do it here? Because this is indeed the result I want, and the question would then be what is the easiest way to get there.
You'll get more accustomed to how this all works when setting up your own programming. Up and Up is the same as Up and Down if you look at it from the right angle.
Yes, I understood that one is a simple variation of the other. My question wasn't about up-and-down-ness but about whether you were still talking about "assigning a Note Shift 'user curve with steps' to a switch" as you were in a very similar scenario described earlier in your post, or if you were actually talking about yet another way to assign the 12-semitone note shifts to those buttons. Not that it matters if there's more than one way, I only need one way... it's just that, if there is more than one way, I'd want to use the easiest way. ;-) Bottom line, the question is: What is the easiest way to assign buttons 1 and 2 to be "up and down 12-semitone shifts" for only part 2 of a performance. If anyone can give me some semblance of a step-by-step that would be great!

I was only talking about moving octaves of the RH - not switching between RH sounds. You can move octaves around on MOXF using this technique. Switching RH sounds is a different story.
Right, that's what I was saying, that alternate approach wouldn't work in my particular MOXF context of *also* needing to switch RH sounds on the fly. This whole topic was a continuation of our discussion in that earlier thread, which I moved here into its own thread at your suggestion, but yeah, I did not repeat some of that detail here, so that context was missing unless you referenced/remembered the earlier thread. I was just bringing that context back. :-) Thanks again for your help!
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX
  3. # 4
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Yes, I understood that one is a simple variation of the other. My question wasn't about up-and-down-ness but about whether you were still talking about "assigning a Note Shift 'user curve with steps' to a switch" as you were in a very similar scenario described earlier in your post, or if you were actually talking about yet another way to assign the 12-semitone note shifts to those buttons. Not that it matters if there's more than one way, I only need one way... it's just that, if there is more than one way, I'd want to use the easiest way. ;-) Bottom line, the question is: What is the easiest way to assign buttons 1 and 2 to be "up and down 12-semitone shifts" for only part 2 of a performance. If anyone can give me some semblance of a step-by-step that would be great!


I'm not sure you caught what I threw. "Up" and "Up" as I described IS "Up" and "Down". It's because of the initial programmed offset - which is an important concept to grasp.

I'll just run through the whole thing and maybe you'll see what I mean. I really don't think it's altogether necessary (to trace through) -- your own exploration will eventually make the light-bulb go off. That said, I'll do it anyhow.

Lets pretend you want two buttons to control the octave and you want to be able to have 3 different states - a) Non-shifted (original octave), b) Down-shifted (note shift = -12 semi-tones), c) Up-Shifted (note shift = +12 semi-tones).

PART 1 is going to be your bass, in this example. We ignore this -- not a part of the octave shifting.

PART 2 is your RH piano sound. Lets give it a name "CFX Stage".

When you go into PART 2 and start editing the parameters, first change the actual "Note Shift" parameter to -12.

Now your entire RH is shifted down by an octave. When you CHANGED the parameter - this is not considered an offset. It's changing the default programmed value to be an octave lower than the original preset.

Next -- I'm going to gloss over the details -- you would program the A.SW1 to OFFSET the programmed parameter by +12 semi-tones and also program A.SW2 to OFFSET the programmed parameter by +12 semi-tones.

Once you do this, the octaves of your RH will match the following:

A.SW1 AND A.SW2 OFF = Shift RH DOWN by 1 octave (relative to the original preset - because we changed the programmed value and have no offset)
A.SW1 OFF, A. SW2 ON = Zero RH Shift (relative to the original preset - we programmed this new version to be -12, but our A.SW2 OFFSETS by +12 so we're back where we started)
A.SW1 ON, A.SW2 OFF = same as previous - Zero RH Shift - for the same reasons
A.SW1 ON, A.SW2 ON = Shift RH UP by 1 octave (relative to original preset - because we changed the programmed value to -12, and then add +12 from A.SW1 and another +12 from A.SW2)

This, hopefully, helps illuminate how my original description does get you up and down (and zero shift) using two buttons.

There are other ways to do this - you CAN set a button to -12 and another to +12. Maybe this makes more sense to you. However, understanding the relationship between programmed values (parameter values you decide to change) vs. offsets (adding or subtracting) is important to a more well-rounded understanding of the programming task.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX
  3. # 5
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Yes, I understood that one is a simple variation of the other. My question wasn't about up-and-down-ness but about whether you were still talking about "assigning a Note Shift 'user curve with steps' to a switch" as you were in a very similar scenario described earlier in your post, or if you were actually talking about yet another way to assign the 12-semitone note shifts to those buttons. Not that it matters if there's more than one way, I only need one way... it's just that, if there is more than one way, I'd want to use the easiest way. ;-) Bottom line, the question is: What is the easiest way to assign buttons 1 and 2 to be "up and down 12-semitone shifts" for only part 2 of a performance. If anyone can give me some semblance of a step-by-step that would be great!
I'm not sure you caught what I threw. "Up" and "Up" as I described IS "Up" and "Down". It's because of the initial programmed offset - which is an important concept to grasp.

I understand the difference between programmed vs. offset values, no problem there. What I don't understand is why you would program in a -12 shift and then program in a relative +12 for switch 1 and another relative +12 for switch 2, instead of simply programming in a -12 for switch 1 and a +12 for switch 2? You seem to be adding another step for no reason. Also, I think the lights make more sense if no-light equals true pitch, upper-light (switch 1) equals octave-up, and lower-light (switch 2) equals octave down, which I think is what you get with the more direct (fewer step) programming as well. (And if I'm getting it all right, both lights on would also be true pitch.) Maybe you added the step because you prefer the other light arrangement?

Next -- I'm going to gloss over the details -- you would program the A.SW1 to OFFSET the programmed parameter by +12 semi-tones
That's actually the detail I could most use. ;-) I've never done that kind of thing before.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX
  3. # 6
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
How the lights work and how you elect to solve the problem is arbitrary. Once you understand the basics - you can slightly modify to fit your light-to-pitch-shift mapping. I added the extra step to force thinking about the concept of using the initial programmed offset as part of the solution.

In order to accomplish -12, you would use a bi-polar curve which allows for subtraction instead of uni-polar. Curves setup as uni-polar and are slightly easier to deal with when constructing user step curves rather than dealing with bi-polar as a first round.

Selecting the method I did was to serve both walking you through uni-polar-only setup and also, more importantly, to be able to demonstrate how setting the initial programmed value as part of the solution is a useful technique. Not setting the initial value is easier to think about - but teaching I strive to set examples which go against the easy case. Sometimes only knowing the easy case sets up a false limitation in the mind of a user. You can elect to program this, ultimately, as straight forward/simple as you choose. Others will tend to take the KISS approach - which is valid too. So I leave it to others or existing documentation to cover those approaches.

As far as glossing - you would:

http://faq.yamaha.com/us/en/article/musical-instruments/keyboards/synthesizers/montage/11002/9484/

Only using part of this as a reference - it's about changing the programmed value - not assigning to a controller for offset.

You could follow the FAQ to set the initial programmed value (if doing this method). Then, while the "Note Shift" parameter is still selected, press the [CONTROL ASSIGN] button which should be illuminated. On the next screen press either the A.SW1 or A.SW2 button. This will automatically setup a curve and ratio for you which will likely be incorrect. You could change this to a user curve (from the standard curve), set it to a step curve (not linear), and change only the first and last ranges (input =0 range and input=127 range). When I say =X range I mean the range which includes this number (0 on the far-left or 127 on the far-right). The input values in the middle do not matter since a switch is only going to be either 0 or 127 and nothing between. I would set the input=0 range to an output of 0 and the input=127 range to an output of 12. Doing this for both buttons sets up the configuration previously outlined.

There's a tutorial you should likely go through which should apply to MODX just as well as it does to Montage. It's the "Mastering Montage" series. There are several different articles referencing controller assign curves which should be studied. https://www.yamahasynth.com/montage-category/super-knob-unipolar

After you do the assign, your screen will be similar to this (from the article):
https://www.yamahasynth.com/images/Motif_XF/Miscellaneous/InsAlfospd.png

Your "Source" will be the A.SW1 or A.SW2 (assignable switch) and your "Destination" will be for note shift/pitch.

You should have pressed "Standard" curve and modified this to a user curve. This is not entirely necessary - there are standard curve types you can use which will work. User curves are easy to deal with since you have full control over exactly what the values are. Pitch needs exact values. Other parameters like cutoff/resonance/etc. do not need exact values.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX
  3. # 7
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
@Jason
I wouldn’t recommend this particular method of real time control over the change of Octave issue here. First, it is not precise tuning, as I’ll explain, and the sound will necessarily be degraded a bit because of the way the pitch change works with this assignment.

This is not always necessarily a bad thing but I feel that it would be in this particular, bread&butter, Split Bass application.

When you set “NOTE SHIFT”, or any parameter, as the target parameter for real time control you should not assume that the resolution of the control values that are applied (offset) match the parameter's own units. When offsetting a parameter often the units of measure are not the same units. If you selected an EQ Gain parameter, the values of the offset are not necessarily going to be in dB increments. You are (wrongly) assuming when you target "Note Shift" as the target that the unit value of control change will be semitones. Upon close inspection, they are obviously not.

What happens is when “Note Shift” is the target parameter via [Control Assign] you are given continuous control over the resulting pitch, in a similar fashion to how Pitch Bend works. When the sound is a sample this is always handled by speeding up or slowing down the playback of the audio. This causes “munchkinization” or "chipmunking" of the resulting sound, and it certainly degrades more, the farther it is stretched.

If you proceed with that method, you will be pitch bending the notes, whatever distance, and then attempting to play it while in the pitch bent position. Not the optimum quality sound will result (it's physics). You’ll notice that +/-12 Ratio units is NOT octave. The offset values are certainly not in semitones (and really there is no expectation they should, even if it would be convenient for this to be a useful suggestion, but not for Lead right hand sounds in this application)... it’s like holding the Pitch Bend Wheel, offset by an Octave, and then attempting to play with it in that condition. You are 'stretching' the sample then playing it while detuned.

There are applications where the "munchkinizing" in the sound is acceptable (it is not necessarily a bad thing... when applied to sound effects, or in the creation of sound effects, or when general Pitch tuning is required - as with percussive noises - it actually helps turning the sound of a crash cymbal into a massive gong. But if attempting to then play an Equal Temperament music phrase, you may find it less than sonically satisfying.

@Scott
This is why, in this instance, I would recommend the following method(s). The first is where I’m using two instances of the right hand sound, one low, the other high. Setup so you switch between them with the Super Knob. This has previously been mentioned -here are the details:


See/hear the attached MODX CONNECT .X8B and MONTAGE CONNECT .X7B File examples
Unzip the appropriate File to your computer desktop, (I made separate Example files for MODX and MONTAGE) open the File with MODX CONNECT / MONTAGE CONNECT. This will bulk the example data to your MODX/MONTAGE edit buffer... Do one at a time. You can store them if you wish, or just explore them and when you move away they will disappear (overwriting nothing). There are some advanced programming things going on here - if they seem like 'alien technology' not to worry, take your time. Navigation is pretty much the same on both units so if you are a MONTAGE person, you should be able to find all the appropriate screens.


Method 1: Super Knob “Bass and SKnob”
Using the [KNOB POSITION 1] and [KNOB POSITION 2] buttons, which can recall Super Knob position, to switch between the octaves. In this instance we are going to actually Note Shift the Part which when applied directly is an offset, where the key-on info is *shifted* in semitone units, rather than speeding up/slowing down audio playback (Pitch Bend method).
MODX_Sknb.png
Part 1 - Acoustic Bass C-2~B2 (I play a Montage 7 so I set the lowest note for the Bass at E0)
Part 2 - S700 for Montage C3~G8 Note Shift = -12
Part 3 - S700 for Montage C3~G8 Note Shift = +0
(You can change the split points as you desire and as best fits your keyboard’s length)
DSNAP_28.png
“Part Volume” of the Piano Parts has been reassigned to the Super Knob position.
Within the Control Set (shown below I'm using a SQUARE Curve to define activity) you can see how Part 2 is ‘in’ for the first half of the Knob movement (Left-to-Right: left side of the graphic is minimum, right side is Super Knob at maximum), and Part 3 is reverse ‘in’ for the second half of the Knob movement.
fig2.png
Press [EDIT] > [PART SELECT] > select Part 2 > touch the “Auto Select” box to activate (green) > turn the Super Knob
To quick view PART 3 simply [PART SELECT] > select Part 3
fig3.png


How to balance the instrument sounds
I have set the Part Volume for each Piano Part at 0 (Fader)... I’m using the Control Set “RATIO” setting (+24) to set the basic start (mix) volume for the piano Parts. If I need to boost the volume, the Fader will 'add' volume to the stored value.

The “POLARITY” is Uni - means the change is in one direction and back to the original value.
The "RATIO" determines my minimum or 'start value'. To increase volume while performing, the Part Faders can add (offset) the 'start value'.

If RATIO were set to +0, while the Fader is set to 0, there would be no output. (Using a Ratio value is how you can set a minimum output other than zero output)
So I balance the various right hand instruments using their relative Ratio values. It determines the minimum level. The Fader will change the volume in one direction and back as you raise and lower it. In this instance it does not return the volume to ‘no output’, it returns it to the minimum, which I set with the Ratio parameter. (There are many ways to setup this volume offset... there is no one way to work...)

Above and on either side of the Super Knob are the [KNOB POSITION 1] and [KNOB POSITION 2] buttons which can be used to store, for instant recall, the positions of the Super Knob. The default is minimum and maximum, respectively. Perfect for our Octave jump.

EXTRA CREDIT:
Using this method you could add two more right hand sounds,

Parts 4-5 Synth Lead - "Wind Synth", and 6-7 - Jazz Guitar "American Garage",
and just for fun: you can have a Drum Kit in Part 8 (if you’re on a solo gig) I stored the Performance with the Main Arp On/Off in the Off position*. Use the ARP SELECT

Part 4-5 Low/high Synth Lead
Part 6-7 Low/high Jazz Gtr
*Part 8 Drum Kit (in waiting; to activate - switch the main ARP ON/OFF = ON)
On the MODX from the HOME screen, touch "Motion Control" > "Arpeggio" use the screen ARP SELECT button to switch Arp phrases.
On the MONTAGE use the right front panel [ARP SELECT 1-8] to switch Arp phrases.

Scene 1 Bass/Piano
Scene 2 Bass/Synth Lead - Setup to respond in a similar fashion to the Piano
Scene 3 Bass/Jazz Gtr - Setup to respond in a similar fashion to the Piano

Scene buttons are recalling MUTE status - so that each recalls a different right hand lead sound - Acoustic bass is unaffected.


Alternate Method "Bass and AsSw"
The above method does use the Super Knob’s ability to morph conditions, by switching the active Part. There are other method to do this depending on the depth of programming you wish to use. The above method works like a “switch” - the change is abrupt which should be fine because in the poster’s situation, the left hand is likely walking that bass line while the right hand reaches up and makes the Octave shift and Scene changes. An FC7 pedal could be used to ‘flip’ the octave, if you prefer.

As we are fond of saying, “there is no one way to work...” so here’s another quick idea:
BassAsSw.png
You could transition between Low and High Octave Parts using the “sonically invisible” XA CONTROL. With XA CONTROL you can define when, under what conditions, an AWM2 Element, will sound. Among the methods of applying this feature are the [AsSw1]/[AsSw2] buttons. Unfortunately, they are inconveniently to the left side of the occupied (bass walking) left hand, this will require a momentary Foot Switch (FC5-Type) which can be used to activate one of the AsSwitches and switch between the Parts. A real benefit here is you can switch octaves while keeping both hands on the keys at all times... requires an FC5-Type (TS) momentary Foot Switch plugged into the Assignable Foot Switch Jack.

[UTILITY] > “Settings” > “MIDI I/O” > Set the FS ASSIGN = 86, by setting this to the same CC number for the AsSw1, the FS will activate the [AsSw1].
FS_cc86.png
Notice the pedal is “momentary" - means it works like a Sustain Pedal, you engage it to activate and you hold it to continue. The [AsSw1] button, however, I set to “latch” to give the most flexibility... if you want to hold the Octave position simply tap the Button; if you want the momentary response use the pedal.

Scene 1
Here, I’ve got the Acoustic Bass split with the same two “S700 Piano” Parts... to show how it can be setup and done. The one in Part 2 has its Elements set to play whenever both Assign Switches are Off, the second in Part 3 plays whenever [AsSw1] is activated.

Scene 2
The Acoustic Bass is split with an edited Vibraphone Part. Notice this is a Single Part. Yes, Octave shifts can be done within the Part itself, provided you have enough Elements. Here Elements 1 and 2 are tuned down the Octave and set to play when both Assign Switches are Off, the normal tuned Elements 3 and 4 are set to play when Assign Switch 1 is On.

Scene 3
A different Jazz Gtr sound, this time showing the reverse Octave switch. The high Octave is normally selected and the Octave down is selected when the AsSw1 is engaged.
Attachments (8)
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX
  3. # 8
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Thanks for all that! Not having a MODX (yet), some of the particulars are hard for me to grasp (no hands-on experience and no way for me to try anything myself to see and understand), but it is still very helpful.

Part 1 - Acoustic Bass C-2~B2 (I play a Montage 7 so I set the lowest note for the Bass at E0)
Part 2 - S700 for Montage C3~G8 Note Shift = -12
Part 3 - S700 for Montage C3~G8 Note Shift = +0
...
Above and on either side of the Super Knob are the [KNOB POSITION 1] and [KNOB POSITION 2] buttons which can be used to store the positions of the Super Knob. The default is minimum and maximum, respectively. Perfect for our Octave jump.

Using this method you could add two more right hand sounds,
I would want to add
Part 4 - S700 for Montage C3~G8 Note Shift = +12
if it could work such that spinning the superknob to the left would be octave down, and spinning it to the right would be octave up. Could this work, or is the superknob limited to 2 states rather than 3 for this kind of thing?

I would try to avoid adding any more parts beyond 4 regardless, so as not to interfere wth seamless transitions.

The above method works like a “switch” - the change is abrupt which should be fine because in the poster’s situation, the left hand is likely walking that bass line while the right hand reaches up and makes the Octave shift and Scene changes.
Yes, I could live with an abrupt transition, since it would be used as you describe. The only "gotcha" would be if I were using the sustain pedal to hold the sound while my right hand when up to turn the superknob to the octave-shifted position, since it sounds like that sustained sound would cut off. Not ideal, but okay.

Alternate Method
...
here’s another quick idea:
You could transition between Low and High Octave Parts using the “sonically invisible” XA CONTROL. With XA CONTROL you can define when, under what conditions, an AWM2 Element, will sound. Among the methods of applying this feature are the [AsSw1]/[AsSw2] buttons.Unfortunately, they are inconveniently to the left side of the occupied (bass walking) left hand
That button location for this doesn't bother me (though your idea of using the buttons for "sticky" octave changes and a foot switch for a temporary one is pretty cool).

Scene 1
Here, I’ve got the Acoustic Bass split with the same two “S700 Piano” Parts... to show how it can be setup and done. The one in Part 2 has its Elements set to play whenever both Assign Switches are Off, the second in Part 3 plays whenever [AsSw1] is activated.
Unless you're running out of scenes, it sounds like it might be easier to just make these two separate scenes (parts 1+2, parts 1+3) rather than a single scene (which switches between parts 2 and 3 by using XA to turn elements on and off), if I understand what you're doing correctly.

In fact, I think another alternate method could be to have bass in Part 1, S700 Piano in parts 2, 3, and 4 at true pitch, octave up, and octave down respectively, and then use the Scene buttons to switch between "parts 1+2" (bass+piano), "parts 1+3" (bass+octave higher piano) and "parts 1+4" (bass+octave down piano), would that work?

But am I correct that there is no way to do:
[AsSw1] - NoteShift +12 applied to Part 2
[AsSw2] - NoteShift -12 applied to Part 2
which is really the ideal functionality I'm looking for (since it would not use up a third or fourth part, and would not use up scenes, plus might even work on my MOXF until I get a MODX!)
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX
  3. # 9
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I would want to add
Part 4 - S700 for Montage C3~G8 Note Shift = +12
if it could work such that spinning the superknob to the left would be octave down, and spinning it to the right would be octave up. Could this work, or is the superknob limited to 2 states rather than 3 for this kind of thing?

I would try to avoid adding any more parts beyond 4 regardless, so as not to interfere wth seamless transitions.
I thought you already had one...MODX.... because it’s a great real world situation and question! Even without having one, you can see that there are multiple ways to approach most setup requirements. (And when yours arrives you already have a couple Performances to try out)!

But exactly because you don’t want to interfere with seamless transitions is why you would add more than 4 Parts. One take away should be, you can seamless move between instruments in the same Performance. Yes, You can move between one four Part Performance and another four Part Performance...that’s what SSS is... but when you merge multiple instruments into a Performance seamless transitions can be done within the one Performance.

Say you put your Favorite 10 or 12 instrument sounds in one Performance you could seamlessly switch between any and all of them.
Now you couldn’t switch between this 12 Part Performance and the next 12 Part Performance, but you wouldn’t need to change Performances (as often).

Unless you're running out of scenes, it sounds like it might be easier to just make these two separate scenes (parts 1+2, parts 1+3) rather than a single scene (which switches between parts 2 and 3 by using XA to turn elements on and off), if I understand what you're doing correctly. (BTW, it looks like you intended to put some pictures in this section that didn't make it.)
The Scene buttons can be used to switch between right hand Parts by manipulating either the Part’s Mute status or the Part Volume...

I was under the impression that the left hand would be occupied walking the bass line, and the right hand would be free to make changes... in a real world scenario where you are playing a walking bass, the Scene buttons are in a rather awkward place to reach.

The AsSwitches being even worse, which is why I programmed the Foot Switch to manipulate the AsSw1... of these setups, I personally find the XA CONTROL with the FS the most intuitive to work while playing. First, because your hands do not leave the keyboard, and it’s glitch proof because XA CONTROL never interrupts a currently sounding note.

In fact, I think another alternate method could be to have bass in Part 1, S700 Piano in parts 2, 3, and 4 at true pitch, octave up, and octave down respectively, and then use the Scene buttons to switch between "parts 1+2" (bass+piano), "parts 1+3" (bass+octave higher piano) and "parts 1+4" (bass+octave down piano), would that work?
Yes it would... absolutely, as long as reaching for this buttons does not present a problem...logistically speaking.

But am I correct that there is no way to do:
[AsSw1] - NoteShift +12 applied to Part 2
[AsSw2] - NoteShift -12 applied to Part 2
which is really the ideal functionality I'm looking for (since it would not use up a third or fourth part, and would not use up scenes, plus might even work on my MOXF until I get a MODX!)
The reason for my post was to explain why that would not work... you are correct.
It is not that it isn’t a way to change the pitch, it’s just far too general a method of changing the pitch for your specific use case... which, If I understood correctly, was involving a Left hand walking a bass sound, while the Right hand switches to several different lead sounds.

So keeping the bass as Part 1, I offered several different Right hand alternatives in the same Performance. One shows of using two Parts per instrument, the other demonstrates how, as with the Vibraphone Part and Gtr Part.... you can have that octave switch within the Single Part.

If you need a three Octave shift ...You could certainly let ‘necessity be the mother of invention’ to configure the SuperKnob movement into thirds... where each region would isolate just one Right hand sound. 7-10, 10-2, 2-5 o’clock. Same theory, just use three Parts for the Right hand instrument so that you have -12, +0, then +12... this would be most logical so that you don’t wind up with a two Octave jump some where. Totally doable.

I think you can tell there are many ways to approach most things... but don’t get hung up on SSS, that is but one way to transition between sounds. Hope that helps.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX
  3. # 10
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
But say you put you Favorite 10 or 12 instrument sounds in one Performance you could seamlessly switch between any and all of them.
Now you couldn’t switch between this 12 Part Performance and the next 12 Part Performance, but you wouldn’t need to.
Good tip. I'll have to experiment between the approaches, i.e. creating 12 separate "bass+something" performances, vs. creating a single Performance that has the bass sound and 12 different RH sounds to switch among. I hadn't thought about switching sounds within a single performance like that, I imagine there will be pros and cons to each approach. Off-hand, the main advantage I see of switching to completely different performances is that--without using up part-space that might otherwise be available for other instrument combinations--it makes more parts available for each individual RH instrument (whether for the octave-switching we've been talking about; or sounds that include an additional layer; or sounds that simply require more than one part just for the one sound).

I was under the impression that the left hand would be occupied walking the bass line, and the right hand would be free to make changes... in a real world scenario where you are playing a walking bass, the Scene buttons are in a rather awkward place to reach...The AsSwitches being even worse
Your impression is correct. I guess I won't know until I actually start doing it, but in general, I'm not bothered by occasionally needing to cross hands to get to a control.

I personally find the XA CONTROL with the FS the most intuitive to work while playing. First because your hands do not leave the keyboard, and it’s glitch proof because XA CONTROL never interrupts a currently sounding note.
That sounds good, I expect to give that a shot!

The reason for my post was to explain why that would not work... you are correct.
It is not that it isn’t a way to change the pitch, it’s just too general a method of changing the pitch for your specific use case... which, If I understood correctly, was involving a Left hand walking a bass sound, while the Right hand switches to several different lead sounds.
Yes, you understood the scenario perfectly. And yeah, I got why the other approach wouldn't work, you explained that very well. I just didn't want to rule out the possibility of yet some other approach, since there always seems to be "one more way" you can do something. ;-)

Thanks again!
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX
  3. # 11
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Having plugged in my keyboard - it is true that although you press [CONTROL ASSIGN] while "Note Shift" is highlighted - the destination does not end up being "note shift" - it ends up being something else entirely "Pitch". Pitch is not Note Shift. Which makes it more difficult to keep straight over time. Unlike other parameters which tend to offset the actual value selected when [CONTROL ASSIGN] is lit - this one does something different.

Note Shift does alter the pitch as you want - without stretching the samples. However, as a destination this modulation destination, through an act of "slight of hand", does end up stretching the sample which is not preferred.

It would be nice if "note shift" actually was a destination. Similarly, it would be nice if the Zone Octave and Zone Transpose could be destinations as well.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX
  3. # 12
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
One take away should be, you can seamless move between instruments in the same Performance. Yes, You can move between one four Part Performance and another four Part Performance...that’s what SSS is... but when you merge multiple instruments into a Performance seamless transitions can be done within the one Performance.

Say you put your Favorite 10 or 12 instrument sounds in one Performance you could seamlessly switch between any and all of them.
Now you couldn’t switch between this 12 Part Performance and the next 12 Part Performance, but you wouldn’t need to change Performances (as often).

I see I can seamlessly switch between sounds within one Performance by selecting its Part from the Performance screen. But this is a LH bass scenario, so I want my bass (part 1) to keep playing, while I freely choose from among 10+ right hand sounds on the fly. Selecting the parts is an easy way to change my RH sound, but my part 1 (LHB) disappears. What am I missing? Maybe some KBD CTRL setting?
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX
  3. # 13
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Any PARTs from 9-16 cannot sound at the same time as any other PART. They're restricted to sounding only when selected which forces all other PARTs OFF. There's not a way to change this. With two (or more) simultaneous sounds played with local piano keys - you can only have access to 8 PARTs at a time (and only within the range of 1-8), not 12 PARTs at a time.

The reason why the above statement applies is more fully covered in the "Keyboard Control" rules discussion.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX
  3. # 14
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Any PARTs from 9-16 cannot sound at the same time as any other PART. They're restricted to sounding only when selected which forces all other PARTs OFF. There's not a way to change this. With two (or more) simultaneous sounds played with local piano keys - you can only have access to 8 PARTs at a time (and only within the range of 1-8), not 12 PARTs at a time.

Ah, yes. In a different context, I knew that. ;-) So I guess I've found the one-in-a-million Phil error! So within a single Performance (assuming I don't want to do element-level editing to create compound sounds within a single Part), I am limited to 7 LH bass splits (bass sound plus choice of 7 RH Parts for the total of 8), those different combinations selectable either by switching the active parts, or setting up Scenes, the former having the advantage of RH sounds not cutting out when you switch from one to the other (and there are probably other pros and cons to the two approaches). Getting back to the thought that started this thread, 7 available RH Parts goes more quickly if you're using up multiple Parts to make a single sound available in multiple octaves. But these are still clearly useful techniques.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX
  3. # 15
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