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  1. Gary
  2. MONTAGE
  3. Monday, 08 April 2019
I need to create a patch that is a single sustained note for a string part. I'd like to add it as a part to a performance.

I can see how use the key range to identify the one trigger note but I don't see any simple way to just make it hold for the duration. I can always reload the part to stop it or what might be best is to have it toggle. I.e., play the note and it sustains. Hit the key again and it stops. Hit the key again and it sustains.

What's the easiest way to do this with the Montage?
Responses (16)
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Hello Gary - that's an interesting question. I don't think it's possible without extensive programming. The Sustain bit can be done using the 'Release' of the ADSR envelope - not very satisfactorily though. But asking each key to optionally be a toggle switch is a whole new ball game. Maybe use the 'Mute' button instead of the key to turn it off? Presumably your Montage would be zones for the piece you're creating .. the snag would be having to un-mute and hit the key again to repeat ... I'll have a look when next on Montage ...
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 1
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
You can sustain forever (because you loop) - but cannot release forever in AWM2. FM-X can release (hold) forever - so this is generally easier to do with FM-X. Depending on your definition of "forever" (which cannot be in terms of years - maybe in terms of measures like 16 measures) - you can have an ARP virtually hold a note "forever". You can use latch-mode arps to turn off the hold by pressing the same key again.

If FM-X works for you - then FM-X "latched-like" performance is easier to do since it's easier, in my opinion, to control than ARPs when you're live at the gig. If AWM2 - then the release is probably not going to be sufficient for doing the same thing - so ARPs would be generally what you'd have to employ.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 2
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I need to create a patch that is a single sustained note for a string part. I'd like to add it as a part to a performance.

I can see how use the key range to identify the one trigger note but I don't see any simple way to just make it hold for the duration. I can always reload the part to stop it or what might be best is to have it toggle. I.e., play the note and it sustains. Hit the key again and it stops. Hit the key again and it sustains.

What's the easiest way to do this with the Montage?
It will depend a lot on what type of control/behavior you need over the “single sustained note for a string part”... an Arpeggiator can be used to trigger the note, hold the note, and if you set the Arpeggiator “Trigger Mode” = Toggle, this will even turn the note On and Off as you describe would “be best”... but...

It’s not really enough of a description (musically) ... do you need to hear the note Attack? Is the note simply suppose to sound like one long continuous note, or does retriggering it ruin the musical effect you’re going for. (Arps can be looped, but what about that loop point behavior?

If it needs to be just one long continuous note (with no audible retriggering), you might have to try building the sound using a drum kit envelope that can “hold” without loosing energy.

The trade-off in each would have to do with what type of thing you envision exactly. Are you describing just one Note (Pitch) that need be setup like this? Do you need to change the pitch of this sustained note at some point? How long, overall, does this “sustained note” need to be to pull off the illusion you’re trying to create?

Before we get into any details it would help to get a better idea of what you are envisioning.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 3
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
The way I do this:
I have a midi keyboard (with sustain pedal) assigned to (e.g.) part 9.
I press the secondary sustain pedal, hit the note on the secondary keyboard, and keep it on sounding until I release my sustain pedal.

Another option (depending on the rest of your configuration) turn off the sustain pedal for all parts, except the string part.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 4
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
J
I need to create a patch that is a single sustained note for a string part. I'd like to add it as a part to a performance.

I can see how use the key range to identify the one trigger note but I don't see any simple way to just make it hold for the duration. I can always reload the part to stop it or what might be best is to have it toggle. I.e., play the note and it sustains. Hit the key again and it stops. Hit the key again and it sustains.

What's the easiest way to do this with the Montage?
It will depend a lot on what type of control/behavior you need over the “single sustained note for a string part”... an Arpeggiator can be used to trigger the note, hold the note, and if you set the Arpeggiator “Trigger Mode” = Toggle, this will even turn the note On and Off as you describe would “be best”... but...

It’s not really enough of a description (musically) ... do you need to hear the note Attack? Is the note simply suppose to sound like one long continuous note, or does retriggering it ruin the musical effect you’re going for. (Arps can be looped, but what about that loop point behavior?

If it needs to be just one long continuous note (with no audible retriggering), you might have to try building the sound using a drum kit envelope that can “hold” without loosing energy.

The trade-off in each would have to do with what type of thing you envision exactly. Are you describing just one Note (Pitch) that need be setup like this? Do you need to change the pitch of this sustained note at some point? How long, overall, does this “sustained note” need to be to pull off the illusion you’re trying to create?

Before we get into any details it would help to get a better idea of what you are envisioning.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 5
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
What I need is a single string note that once hit sustains. If it is a dedicated part of a performance I’d envision taking a string part e.g., background strings, editing it to work the way I want. Have that single note played and it holds. When I want it to fade out I turn the volume on that part down. I’d save the edits to say background strings as background strings sustained as a new part. Since it is always the same note I’d just make sure for that patch that is the only note on the keyboard that can be played. When I want it to stop During the song I turn the volume down on that part or mute.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 6
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Here is what you need to know: we’ll let you choose the sound you want... use this as a general guide...
You can create the sound that plays endlessly by using a Drum Kit Part. Drum Kit Keys can be independently programmed and their envelope can be set to sound endlessly.

Each Key, C0~C6, in a Drum Kit, is autonomous. This means you could place any Waveform you choose on any of its Keys. It could be a synth wave or an orchestral string wave. Each Key has its own Level, Pan, Amplitude Envelope Generator, Filter, etc., etc.

By setting the “Amplitude” (AEG) so that “Decay 2 Time” = “Hold” for the Key containing your selected Waveform.
And setting the Key in question to “Receive Note Off” = “Off”, and “Assign Mode” = “Single”

Once that Note is triggered it will remain sounding forever.
You can assign a controller to fade it out... You might want to assign the output level of that Part to the Ribbon, or MW or Assign Knob whichever controller you prefer. The Ribbon set to “Hold” can be set so that as you swipe Right (toward keys) the sound gets louder, and as you swipe Left it reduces the level. Or a Knob or Slider can be used.
Or you could assign an adjacent Key to the same Alternate Group... only one Key in each Alternate Group can sound at a time. By programming a Key with Volume = 0 in the same Alternate Group, you can use this “silent” Key to stop the ‘forever’ Waveform.

To assign a Controller move the cursor to highlight the Part Volume
Press [CONTROL ASSIGN]
Touch the Controller you wish to use to control the Volume.
If the Slider is okay, nothing need be programmed the Part Slider default to controlling the Part Volume of the corresponding Part when you are in Performance Control.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 7
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Hi Bad Mister, I tried this just out of interest. Haven´t really ever done anything with drum parts yet. Ok, so I add a drum init part to my performance and I want to assign one sound to a single key, like described above. Now...how do I turn off all the rest of the keys? They are all on by default. Going thru every single key of the board and turning it off one after the other is no fun at all, to say the least. it´s the kind of thing one might give up in frustration.
But if I want one key of a part to trigger a sustained sound that stays on while I keep playing the other parts, then all the other keys of that drum part need to be silent. Can this really only be achieved by turning each single key wav off? I can´t think of another way... Maybe better not use a drum part then?
Also, what do you mean by "Alternate Group"?
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 8
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
If you want to turn off the keys - do this the conventional way you would a normal AWM2 or normal FM-X part. Use note range. From the [PERFORMANCE] (HOME) screen, your drum PART will show a note range labeled "range". You can touch this area - there is a low and high range. You can select the range by using piano key presses. The range can be a single note if you want. Alternatively, you can [EDIT] the PART then go to "Common" and the left-side menu tabs "Part Settings" -> "General" and change the "Note Limit" range. Different places to edit the same parameter.

As far as this "alternate group" stuff - the reference manual labels what the GUI calls "group" as "alternate group".

Source: reference manual A0 page 127
Group (Alternate Group)
=====================
Set the Alternate Group to which the key is assigned. The Parts to which the same number is assigned
here cannot sound simultaneously. This setting helps to reproduce the sounds of a real drum kit, in which
some drum sounds cannot physically be played simultaneously, such as open and closed hi-hats.
Settings: off, 1 – 127


For a drum part, go to the "Osc/Tune" menu (press "Drum Key" blue button first if you do not see this menu as it does not show in "Common" mode). From "Osc/Tune" - you'll see "Group" which can be "Off" (drum key is not participating in a group) or any number from 1 to 127. If two different keys are assigned to the same group number - then these two keys will be part of the same group.

You can get your bearings by recalling the factory preset "Real Drums Kit". Edit the drum PART, press the blue "Drum Key" button, then touch the "Drum Key" parameter just above the blue button (it should have a MIDI note like C1 or other note). Now you can spin the DATA DIAL while watching the "Group" parameter for something other than "Off". What you'll find is that this preset Performance has two groups. The high-hat is in group 1. All of the high-hat (HH) sounds are assigned to this group 1. What this does is make any key that's a HH sound stop the other HH sounds first then play the sound assigned the HH drum key you pressed. There's a second group (group 2) which are a few triangle drum keys.

Taking a look at how this works - experimenting with turning the groups assigned to "Off" then seeing what happens - and trying your own groups will help orient you.

... and some history - in the SY77, an early sample-based synth circa late 80s, there was a parameter called "Alternate" which was either OFF or ON. Any keys where "Alternate" was OFF would play "conventionally" where the sounds would overlap. One key and the next key can have sounds simultaneously playing. Any key(s) with "alternate" ON would be considered part of a group that could only alternate between playing one at a time. "Alternate" as in taking turns. Pretty much all synths, arrangers, and samplers (SU series) since then have adopted the "Alternate group" lingo. Montage has it mentioned in the docs - but GUI drops "Alternate" and labels it simply as "Group".
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 9
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
thank you Jason, I wan´t thinking about the range... of course. so easy! that drum part got me all confused.... I´m kind of wondering why all the keys turned on in the drum init part, all of them having the same wav. I find this rather confusing. if you want to build your own drum kit from scratch with an empty init performance, why isn´t it empty... well, I´ll make my own empty one then, by turning absolutely each key off tediously. but I just don´t want to hear any sound on any other key of my drum part than the keys that I have assigned wavs to.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 10
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
It'd difficult to come up with a reasonable "init". For AWM2 - I'm not entirely sure that a velocity-insensitive setting was best since hardly anyone will want to start with no velocity sensitivity. But "you" (Yamaha firmware team in this instance) have to pick something.

For drums - Yamaha can't know what samples you want to use - so they have everything turned on and the same sample. This is mostly reasonable as generally I do not think most would have a drum kit with only 1 or 2 keys used. If you want to have a drum Performance that has everything removed the way you would prefer - you'll need to do this work once then save it off to keep in your bag of tricks. Some of this would be easier using (paid for) offline tools since editor cut/paste options are available. It'd be great to see a Yamaha (free) editor for Montage that lets you do some of this easier. I'm not sure that's in the cards.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 11
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I usually don’t comment on these type of discussions except to say... whatever the “Init” is someone will complain, period. It really depends on what YOU are doing when you discover it.

If you leave all the keys of the Kit with the Element Switch = Off, you get requests saying “I wonder why I need to turn On each Switch, they should all default to On.... I mean, after all, doesn’t Yamaha know I’m building a Kit shouldn’t they all be On?”

If they are all turned On, in the Init setup then others would complain that “while they are all On, how come they all default to the same Drum, a snare?” Why does the Init Normal default to a piano and not orchestral strings? Why does the Init FM-X default to a Sine Wave? Why are the Init Envelopes an “organ” envelope?

If this stumps you, perhaps you should not be programming your own DrumKit or Normal sound “from scratch”.

You might consider selecting a Kit that contains some of the components you desire and changing the others to something you do desire.
Leave the current Init “from scratch” programming to those who are not looking for that shortcut. For those placing Audio clips or Looped wav Files On the Keys. DrumKits can be used for other purposes, as well.

Perhaps the “Init” does not serve you... that’s Okay. Please recognize that it might (just might) serve someone else in what they are doing. Even if you don’t know what that might be... but recognize that an Init is a default starting point... take a look at it... agree/disagree with the selections, and then move forward. You might want to start with the GM Kit... as your Init Drum Kit... this way you change just the Keys you wish, and the others will be as programmed for GM mapping.
You can create your own Init status Programs. Keep them marked as “Favorite”, or keep them in MONTAGE CONNECT for instant recall.

If you need help in how to create your own Inits, we’d be happy to help you. ((Or you can sit around and wait for a (free) Editor... lol)) ... not recommended.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 12
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
100% agreement. High fives and all that jazz.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 13
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
yes, it doesn´t really matter, but if you compare it with an FMx init: only carrier 1 is turned on. Or an AMW init, only 1 element is turned on. If you want more you need to turn things on, not off. with a drum init, it´s kind of the opposite. but I can indeed make my own init template. it´s no big deal... I was just wondering.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 14
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
The apparent lack of a consistent approach is worth reviewing. Even appreciating that each section is a "snowflake" (different) - not sure that the general approach of how many active "pieces" (elements, carriers, drum keys) there are in the init needs to lack commonality. It's reasonable feedback.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 15
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
it´s no big deal...
Agreed!
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 16
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