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  1. Matthew
  2. MODX Series Synthesizers
  3. Sunday, 03 November 2019
I am having problems with modx creating multiple events on one strike when recording midi. It’s created a midi editing nightmare.

Example: I’ll record CFx Concert on multiple midi channels for each pet to get the entire performance. When I went back to edit a few missteps, I found that one strike had created 6 events in Cubase. I am at a loss. This has never happened to me before.

CFX Concert is not the only performance that has experienced this. There seems to be no rhyme or reason. Sometimes it’s only two events and I’ve seen as many as 8! And then sometimes it’s only one. And it doesn’t have to be a multi-Part Performance (blue). It can be a single part performance (green) and still do the same thing.

Midi Thru is on
Local control is off
Quick set up was set to midi record on DAW.
I’m using Cubase 9.5
I have not yet updated to 2.0.

I can provide more details if necessary. Hoping someone will have a quick answer of what I must be doing wrong.
Responses (16)
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
You can record the four Part “CFX Concert” to a single Cubase MIDI Track as follows:

Press [UTILITY] > touch “Settings” > “Advanced” > set the “MIDI I/O Mode” = Hybrid*
Set the Channel = 1

*Hybrid is a new feature added in version 2.00 — it is designed for exactly this purpose.

This will allow the four Parts of the “CFX Concert” to be addressed, In and Out, on a single MIDI Channel (Ch1), yet allow the remaining Parts to be addressed as Single Parts on the correspondingly numbered MIDI Channel.

Create a single MIDI Track in Cubase
Set the MIDI IN to MONTAGE Port 1
Set the MIDI OUT to MONTAGE Port 1
Set the Out Channel = 1

This allows the data to properly recorded and played back from a single MIDI Track.
Local Control = Off

If you now “merge” a new Part to Part 5, it will be addressed on MIDI Channel 5.

You say you are using Cubase 9.5 but do not mention which Cubase.
If you are using Cubase Pro 9.5 you have more options available to you. (Just FYI).
Let us know.

Extra Credit:
A Multi Part Performance will normally transmit on multiple MIDI Channels. This is likely different for most folks. Because you can build sounds using multiple Parts this situation may arise. The CFX Concert is an acoustic piano constructed from multiple Parts, 18 Oscillators total across those four Parts. A 9-way velocity switching piano in the main body of the instrument, an 8xway velocity switching piano in the upper, undampered region, and a Key Off sound. When MIDI I/O Mode is Multi, the instrument outputs four events for each note you play (one per channel)... Hybrid Mode allows a Multi Part instrument to use a single channel, a single stream of MIDI events, to document your communication with this instrument.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX Series Synthesizers
  3. # 1
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
That’s actually amazing news! I’ll update to 2.0 immediately.

Saying that, I’m concerned that doesn’t really fix my problem. Here’s a more detailed example.
1. I create a multi/gm performance
2. I add single part performances (green) to each part.
3. I create midi tracks in cubase PRO 9.5 (so I’m excited to hear about these additional features) with the corresponding channels assigned to each part in my multi performance.
4. I record on one track, one part.
5. I open up the key editor for said midi recording/data. I go to move an event that struck at the wrong moment (or whatever it might be) and discover that I have to delete multiple events stacked on top of one another. As if the key was struck multiple times simultaneously.

I’ll update to 2.0 and definitely implement what you discussed above. Because that’s freaking amazing!! But I’m not sure it really addresses this problem. But it might. Stay tuned.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX Series Synthesizers
  3. # 2
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I’m sure it does.

So how, if you’re using Multi/GM, are you using “CFX Concert”, you’ve lost me. But get back to us.
If you are now using Single Part programs in each slot, then there is no need to set the MIDI I/O Mode = Hybrid, you would leave it “Multi”.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX Series Synthesizers
  3. # 3
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I’m sorry for the confusion. Using CFX Concert was really the less effective example. The second example better illustrates my issue.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX Series Synthesizers
  3. # 4
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Please see the following tutorial article... Although written for the MONTAGE it should be on point for working with the MODX, as well.... let us know. Because you have a MODX — Be sure you look for the CUBASE Recording Template specifically for the MODX.

MONTAGE and Cubase Pro 9 Workflow
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX Series Synthesizers
  3. # 5
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Be sure you look for the CUBASE Recording Template specifically for the MODX [/url]


Where do I get this Yamaha MODX Template?
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX Series Synthesizers
  3. # 6
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Where do I get this Yamaha MODX Template?
What version of Cubase are you running?
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX Series Synthesizers
  3. # 7
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Cubase Pro 10 :)
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX Series Synthesizers
  3. # 8
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
It should be installed... go to NEW PROJECT... > you’re taken to the Steinberg Hub > on the right side of the screen “Projects” > under RECORDING you’ll find the Templates.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX Series Synthesizers
  3. # 9
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I am so sorry, was not looking at the right place..the template is indeed very help, thank you again for you patience and prompt responses Bad Mister for newbies like me :)
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX Series Synthesizers
  3. # 10
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Oklay. I've downloaded the new update which is amazing.
I also followed your instructions to open the project with the modx template, which is also great. And it fixed my problem. So thank you thank you!!

Saying that, I still have the same problem from a normal template or not. For instance, I opened up an empty project. Added one midi track. Set that to a corresponding channel to any number of parts in a random multi performance, and voila!! Same problem. Now I know I can just move and continue to simple start with the MODX template. But there will inevitably come a moment when I can't do that. Like if I'm adding to an already existing project. So I really want to solve this problem but it 'seems' it's not a MODX problem but some setting in Cubase. Can you think of any setting that I might have that would cause multiple events on one strike while recording midi? It's just bizarre.

Thanks for your help.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX Series Synthesizers
  3. # 11
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I can understand coming from a different paradigm that how MODX is operating seems "bizarre". At some point, you will internalize how MODX is accomplishing multi-PART sounds - why this would have been a choice to do - and this will all seem second nature.

When I read your results - I don't see anything unusual here. It's all just "business as usual" as far as what you're doing and what the results are.

Sticking with single-PART sounds is possible - I suppose. However, it's important to develop some workflow to deal with multi-PART sounds in order to cover that base.

It's important to get past the point of thinking there's something odd about multiple events for a single strike. This is sort of similar to the phases of grief. Acceptance. It's good to know - to really know - what's going on here so you can accept that this is how MODX works. It's been explained - but it doesn't hurt to have a few sources and really grapple with it until the lightbulb goes off.

The architecture of MODX sampled sounds (aka AWM2) is made up of oscillators called elements. There's more to it than that - but that's enough for where I'm going. At most each PART can have 8 elements. Now each element can either be programmed to respond together (so all 8 in a single PART are sounding/triggered at once by a single key) or there can be some programming to make only some of the elements sound at once - while at other times a different set of elements will sound. Some of these choices for making elements sound are: if you're playing legato or not (connected notes), if the A.SW1 button is ON, if the A.SW2 button is ON, if you're playing in a certain range of keys, if you're playing at certain velocities, if your letting go of a key vs. striking the key. With all of these options for making an element sound - you can appreciate that a single "sound" (simulated instrument, "patch" by older lingo) can run out of resources quickly with only 8 elements. After all - you may want some elements to sound with a variety of the previously listed choices for making them sound.

You will no doubt find exceptions - but any "single" instrument/sound which "wants" to use more than 8 elements MUST use more than 1 PART to construct this sound. This is ONE way that multi-PART sounds come in. I'm just going to stick with that "flavor" of construction - because the other major category of flavor is the old Motif way: multiple PARTs which are comprised of single-PARTs (like a bass in PART 1, organ in PART 2, and drums in PART 3). This is different because it's not representing one "instrument"/sound - but adding multiple sounds together to form a compound sound ("band", "performance" ).

So we've invented a world here where you must have (at least) two PARTs for a single sound. Because this sound is complex enough to need all of those elements. More than 8. Note that the reasonable limit for the largest multi-PART sound would be 8 PARTs. Since that's all you can control at once with the local keyboard. So 2-8 PARTs is the theoretical range for "size" of multi-PART sounds. Again - "sound" meaning it's replicating one "instrument" and not a collection of them (because that's the only construction I'm focused on).

In this world, we have to have a way for our piano keys to play such a thing. Things get a bit dicey here - but there are currently 3 modes of MODX operation. Multi-channel MIDI mode, Single-channel MIDI mode, and Hybrid MIDI mode. Single and Hybrid modes, with respect to any multi-PART sound, "emulates" how legacy equipment dealt with piano keys playing all of those individual PARTs. Each PART is placed on the same MIDI channel - so you would just see one MIDI stream on one channel - one set of note on and note off events - and this is what you expect from previous experience.

... however - neither of these modes are the chosen default for MODX when you reset it to factory defaults. The default mode is Multi-channel mode. And this is because this mode is more flexible in all respects. Single and hybrid modes have some serious handicaps when using MODX as a master controller. I won't get into that - and this may not matter for your usage. I mention this because it informs why multi-channel mode is the default. Less restrictions and more features that work. Yes, new - meaning somewhat of a learning curve - but probably worth the effort to learn to deal with for situations which call for multi-channel mode.

ALL OF BELOW DEALS WITH MULTI-CHANNEL MIDI MODE

When multi-channel mode is enabled - those multi-PART sounds (lets say 2 PARTs) can only be played by your piano keys at one time if all the PARTs have keyboard control turned ON. Assuming you haven't -selected- a PART that has keyboard control turned OFF, each and every PART with Keyboard Control = ON is going to send MIDI note on/off messages out the MIDI channel corresponding with the PART number. So, in our example with 2 PARTs (PART 1 and PART 2) - with no PARTs selected (or PART1 or PART 2 selected, just not PARTs 3-16 selected) when you strike a key - PART 1 will send note on/off messages corresponding to your piano key strikes and lifts on MIDI channel 1 and also PART 2 will send note on/off messages corresponding with your piano key strikes and lifts on MIDI channel 2. They'll likely look identical with exception of the MIDI channel number. Looks like duplicates - but really they are necessary so that if these streams are sent back to MODX - then both PART 1 and PART 2 will do what they're supposed to do.

Note: this business about identifying which PART is selected - and if that PART has keyboard control ON or OFF is an area of study if you don't have this internalized yet)

You can think of it like certain instruments/sounds are multi-track -- and really it's appropriate to send the same note on/off messages to each track of this instrument because that matches exactly what would happen if you were playing the piano keys to control this instrument. You don't have to send the same MIDI stream to a multi-PART sound. But there is not one sound (as I defined above - the kind of thing I'm focused on here) that "works" like that in the presets.

--- alternate universe time: It would probably make more "sense" to you if say a piano sound - one of the "complex" piano sounds - that takes up 4 PARTs to make that one sound would just squeeze into one single MIDI receive and transmit channel. If you could say PARTs 1-4 (this piano sound) should all share MIDI channel 1. And say you had an organ sound that took 2 PARTs and that PARTs 5-6 (this organ sound) would all share MIDI receive and transmit channel 2. That'd fit in with your previous expectations. Then when you play piano keys - the MIDI streams would be one channel worth of note on/off for every sound. Multi-PART sounds would have one stream and - even though comprised of multiple PARTs - would somehow have all of the PARTs respond to receiving a single MIDI channel worth of messages from an external DAW/controller. However, that is not what MODX does. You cannot assign MIDI receive channels when in multi-channel mode. There's no moving that rock.

So instead (back to Earth from the alternate universe) - the paradigm is that multi-PART sounds are split into multiple MIDI channels.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX Series Synthesizers
  3. # 12
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Also, I think templates and shortcuts are OK either as training wheels or as accelerators - but you would also benefit from constructing a project without any templates. To understand what's going on by doing it the hard / slow way in order to gain an appreciation for what's being automated and why. Templates may not serve every situation and it would be difficult to recognize this or what to do if you're not familiar with how to setup everything without the templates.

Not saying to drop templates this second - it may still be appropriate to use them as training wheels. Only that there may be value in a multi-prong attack here.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX Series Synthesizers
  3. # 13
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Jason that was pretty awesome! Thanks for taking the time there. I think I'm heading in the right direction of how the MODX works. And this was very helpful. You are absolutely right that I need to be able to build my own setups from scratch. This is why I've continued on here after the Multi-Channel template fixed my problem. Because even though it fixed it, when I was building my own projects, I was still experiencing the same problem. So, I'm gonna take what you gave me here and see if I can't tear into things a little deeper and solve my own problem. If I hit a brick wall, I'll reach back out. Probably with a video link to show you exactly what is going, just to make sure y'all aren't' misunderstanding my quandary.

Thanks again!!
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX Series Synthesizers
  3. # 14
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
When you setup what you call a “normal template” does that mean you did not use the preset template?
What you need to know is the following:

A Cubase MIDI Track, by itself will record any and all incoming MIDI CHANNELS.
When you setup a MIDI Track the channel # setting is for MIDI Output ONLY. If you recorded a four PART Performance, which uses MIDI channels 1, 2, 3, and 4, coming In to Cubase and you then force them all back Out on channel 1 — you have a problem!

Yes that channel selection on the Midi Track is MIDI OUT. If you create one MIDI Track you need to set the channel to ANY.
ANY = each incoming channel will be thru’d back Out on the channel it arrived on.

Many folks forget that every MIDI event includes a Channel. And it only takes one MIDI Track to record all 16 Midi channels. If you press a single key on, middle “C” at a velocity of 100, on channel 1 — the message sent in hexadecimal is: 90 3C 64
9 = Note On
0 = Channel 1
3C = middle “C”, note 60
64 = velocity 100
The MONTAGE/MODX will send that same message on each linked KBD CTRL Part except that the second byte will increment to represent the Channel: 91 3C 64 for channel 2, 92 3C 64 for channel 3, and 93 3C 64 for channel 4
Cubase will re-channelized the data on the way Out from a Track... placing all four events on the same Out Channel.... unless you do one of the two following things:

1) set that MIDI track’s channel Out to “Any” — Record to a single MIDI Track
2) setup the INPUT TRANSFORMER — Record each Part to its own MIDI Track

“Any” allows the data to exit on the channel it came in on. You would DISSOLVE PARTS to split the data to separate tracks for editing... you only need separate Tracks to make it easier to look at and edit.
The ”Input Transformer” as setup by the “MODX Multi Channel Recording” Template... restricts the MIDI Channel Input to one Channel per Track and sets the corresponding MIDI Channel Out. One for each MODX Part. Neat and clean!

When you want to record a 4 Part MODX Performance you would *select* and arm a correspondingly numbered Track for each Part.
By setting the Super Knob and Scene button to send Sysex, you can capture their direct movement and engagement on their own dedicated Sysex Track. So if you intend to record Super Knob or Scene changes you can activate that track along with the 4 music Tracks.

The INPUT TRANSFORMER is key to dividing the MIDI data on the way into Cubase. Each Part you are controlling has its own discreet path to its own Track, and that Track speaks just to its own Part. Learning to set that up is a skill worth spending the 10 minutes to learn (or modify the Template to your needs). It make Cubase Pro an advantage when you are capable of transmitting from your Synthesizer on multiple MIDI Channels simultaneously.

Extra Credit
Multiple Channel transmitting allows the MONTAGE/MODX to place real-time Arpeggiators (there are 8 available simultaneously) at your disposal, each generating data on its own discreet channel/track. You can easily understand this while when playing a Performance that includes drums, how you might need that data on a separate MIDI Channel and Track. And obviously if controlling a guitar Arp and a bass Arp, how they would benefit from a discreet communication bus for their data. But also when performing an instrument sound with tons of different articulation gestures, you may want to record these to separate Tracks for detailing.

Highly recommended: master Single Part Recording before branching out to Multi Part Recording. Guaranteed you have done single Part recording previously... but Multi Part recording isn’t likely new to you. Respect the differences, particularly how to keep the data discreet.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX Series Synthesizers
  3. # 15
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
... with non-Pro versions of Cubase I would use public-domain (free) plugins to rechannel MIDI data so Pro was not necessarily needed to gain an input-transformer type functionality. Just adding that plugins may also be a choice for rerouting the MIDI channels within Cubase.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX Series Synthesizers
  3. # 16
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