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  1. Daniel
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. Thursday, 29 July 2021
Hello

I have a very strange behavior occurring on my setup Logic Pro X, Catalina 10.15, Yamaha Montage 8.

Setting up a track in Logic for MIDI, and one for Audio - all according to several instruction videos how to record the sound with MIDI in Logic.

When I do, the C#2 tone on the keyboard starts triggering and sounding everytime I click, on the R button in Logic, and when I play on the same key.. it doesnt sound until I release it as a "echo" !? When clicking around in the MIDI settings and checking and unchecking the MIDI ports - the same thing C#2 plays with sustain!?

Did anyone else have the same issue, help me out?

I have the latest firmware in Montage8, latest Steinberg USB drivers and everything is updated. I even re installed Logic Pro X - same thing!
Responses (11)
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
When this happens it is because you have a mistake in your Port 1 and Port 2 MIDI settings.

PORT 1 is used strictly for music performing (note-one, controllers, tempo, etc)
PORT 2 should be used exclusively for Remote Control Surface commands… this is where all the Keys, front panel buttons, sliders, and knobs, etc are re-tasked with commands to work the DAW REMOTE function. You can understand that remote commands use Keys to act as On/Off switches, while Knobs and Sliders can work to control continuous functions. If you are hearing musical tones when you press buttons or pressing keys on your QWERTY play notes on the synth it is a sure sign you are sending data on the wrong Port.
https://yamahasynth.com/images/logic3.jpg
When you set up your DAW, use Port 1 for music, (not Port 2)
Port 2 should be set for REMOTE CONTROL SURFACE commands using Mackie Control.
Port 3 (just FYI) is the 5-pin MIDI IN/OUT jacks on the back panel. (Allowing you to use the MONTAGE as a MIDI interface for an external device).

I have the latest firmware in Montage8, latest Steinberg USB drivers and everything is updated. I even re installed Logic Pro X - same thing!
Stop re-installing things.
There is no guarantee that “latest driver” is the correct one for your computer. Please take the time to ensure you have the correct driver for your OS.
Unless you have a new Mac running OS 11, the “latest” driver is NOT for you.

Get the *right* driver for your computer and it’s current Operating System.
Also there is no such thing as a “Steinberg USB driver” to be clear, you want the “Yamaha Steinberg USB Driver for OS X” if that is what you are running.
Unless you are running OS 11, the “latest” driver is NOT for you.

Please match driver with your OS.
Double Check your MIDI configuration.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 1
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Hello

Thanks for your detailed answer! But I get a little confused here so follow up questions here:

1.) Should I un-check the port 2, and 3 in Logic and in the Midi driver setup?

I am using Port one and have followed this video instruction in detail:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jghQGR1ts0E&ab_channel=KierDarby

And when It comes to drivers I have installed this one:
https://usa.yamaha.com/support/updates/yamaha_steinberg_usb_driver_v205_for_mac.html

I also tried another Montage (6) and the same problem occurd. But noticed that the even though I updated to the latest firmware on my Montage 8, the Montage 6 i tried from the music store have the version 3.51.1 but mine only got 3.51.0?

Here is a short video of the strange behavior:
https://youtu.be/uq9zUOQto9w
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 2
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
1.) Should I un-check the port 2, and 3 in Logic and in the Midi driver setup?

I am using Port one and have followed this video instruction in detail:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jghQGR1ts0E&ab_channel=KierDarby
Sorry, I’m not a Logic Pro user, so I can only tell you that Port 1 is the only Port that will address the MONTAGE Tone Generator. You may need to use Ports 2 and 3, it is a matter of *where* you allow them to communicate the data… so to be clear,… what I’m saying, when you configure a MIDI Track, every DAW allows you to choose *where* the input is coming from… make sure that “MONTAGE Port 1” is the Port used to send data IN to that MIDI Track.

I’m also saying when you setup the Remote Control configuration make sure you are using MACKIE CONTROL and that the MIDI In/Out is set to MONTAGE Port 2.

You only want use Port 2 for Remote Control Surface commands via Mackie Control protocol.

I have not watched this video, and can’t say if it is correct. I have linked two videos below from the LEARN (TECH TALK) area. Blake (who knows the MONTAGE as well as anyone on the planet), takes you through the MONTAGE/Logic Pro setup (worth your time).

I am 100% confident when I tell you the issue you are having is due to incorrect MIDI Port configuration in your computer/DAW. It is an easy fix, and an important setting to have correct.

When incorrect you get exactly what you are experiencing! Messages meant for an entirely different purpose winding up where they do not belong.

And when It comes to drivers I have installed this one:
https://usa.yamaha.com/support/updates/yamaha_steinberg_usb_driver_v205_for_mac.html
That’s correct.

FYI -Apple has changed chips - Their latest computers come with OS 11 (even with computer operating systems, the increment of a whole number signifies a major change in how it operates). The latest Macs have a different chipset, running Big Sur and requires a different version driver.

You have the correct driver!

I also tried another Montage (6) and the same problem occurd. But noticed that the even though I updated to the latest firmware on my Montage 8, the Montage 6 i tried from the music store have the version 3.51.1 but mine only got 3.51.0?
The same problem occurred (which is GOOD NEWS, actually) because the issue is not with the MONTAGEs, but your MIDI configuration in Logic Pro which you repeated. If it suddenly worked for one, and not the other THEN you’d have a big problem. Consistency here is good. This is not a complicated fix, but desperately needs to be correctly made in order for MIDI messages to travel between devices.

Midi messages that should be isolated and alone (on Port 1) in triggering your MONTAGE Tone Generator, are not… the likely culprit is you have messages being sent where they do not belong. Again, Port 2 should be used exclusively for messages to and from the MONTAGE for Remote Control purposes.

Once you straighten out your MIDI Port configuration in Logic Pro, the issue will be fixed for both the MONTAGE 8 and the MONTAGE 6 you tried.

The MONTAGE firmware version is indicated by three significant sets of numbers. the first, “3”, represents a major essential change to operations, the second set, “.51” is an important improvement or bug fix, while the last digit “.x” indicates a non-essential change (they may have corrected the placement of a character or something minor in the screen - it will not impact basic behavior or operations, whatsoever). These last changes are so small, while the newest MONTAGE’s coming from the factory may have this minor change, but it is not important enough to warrant a separate Firmware Updater to be distributed. If/when they get ten of these small changes they issue a firmware updater…

Must See — Primer on DAW Connection — Yamaha Synthesizer Product Specialist, Blake Angelos, goes through the important/essential setup details for Pro Tools, Ableton, Logic Pro
Link — Tech Talk DAW MONTAGE Integration

Setting up Logic Pro - Mackie Control - MONTAGE Port 2
https://yamahasynth.com/learn/montage/montage-daw-remote-setup-in-logic-pro-soundsandgear-synthbits
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 3
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Thanks again for your detailed response!

I am not using Mackie controls at all, so that shouldn't be the issue.

To clarify, the "other" Montage 6 that we tested was in the music store - not on my setup. And the exact same issue occurred. So it's not only on "my" computer/setup.

And again, I am using port 1 as I should as you pointed out, one external MIDI track and one Audio track as in the manual and the instructional video.

So sorry to say, I am stuck.. and have tried it all now. I have consulted with several hard-core MIDI/ Logic / Yamaha guys now and no one has any more ideas. :-(

Anyone else have any ideas?
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 4
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Under [UTILITY] "Settings" -> "Midi I/O" do you have "Local Control" turned off? It should be off.

This is common
https://support.apple.com/guide/logicpro/input-filter-settings-lgcp94b70f34/10.5/mac/10.14.6

Instrument Without MIDI Thru Function pop-up menu: The instrument selected here does not pass events through the computer when the instrument is assigned to the selected track. Normally, you would set the No Output instrument here (chosen by default).

If your master keyboard doesn’t have a Local Off setting, you can use this feature to avoid unwanted note doubling when recording


... you shouldn't have to change the MIDI Through function on Logic. I'm quoting this to show that industry standard expects "Local Control" is set to OFF on the keyboard device.

https://www.yamahasynth.com/images/MontageScuba/MIDI_Practices/MIDI_IO.png
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 5
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Yes, the Local Control on the keyboard settings is "OFF" and has been from the start - as this is something I did know :-)
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 6
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I am not using Mackie controls at all, so that shouldn't be the issue.
That does not mean that it is set properly. You could not be using it but that does not mean it is not causing a problem. You don’t have to be using it for it to not be setup correctly. See my meaning? Double check, all your MIDI configuration. What you are looking for is how messages are being merged to Port 1.

To clarify, the "other" Montage 6 that we tested was in the music store - not on my setup. And the exact same issue occurred. So it's not only on "my" computer/setup.
The thing that was the same in both cases, was you. So the configuration is wrong in both instances - you consistently setup the MIDI ports improperly. It is definitely not your computer (I don’t have enough info to say it’s the computer) … it is the MIDI configuration you are setting up… that is still my belief. Once you get the correct MIDI configuration, the weirdness will stop.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 7
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Maybe it sounds like I am a newbie, but I have actually worked with DAWs for more than 23 years so I know a little. ;)

I have gone thru every MIDI setting there is both in the DAW and in Logic Pro X.

Also, one of the guys that have checked my setup has been a teacher on Logic Pro
Not saying we could have missed something - but 2 pros on Logic and DAWs have checked the config now together with your input here and still, no one has found the solution.

And, you are wrong about "...the same in both cases - "was you" ;-)

In the music store, I didn't touch the computer - the Logic Pro/Keyboard guy in the store set it up.. not me - I just watched :-)
So two different people, different computers, different soundcards, different models on mac
The only thing that was the same was the keyboard system (Montage), MaxOSX version, and the Logic Pro version.

Anyway, I have checked everything regards to the input both from this forum and other very skilled people in the area - and still haven't found the problem causing the issue.

But I won't give up, just will keep on checking, asking, and trying until I find the solution.

I have also made a support ticket to Yamaha Music Support with the question, it will be interesting to see what the answer will be.

So, keep on hitting me with new ideas - I am thankful for all input on this until it's solved.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 8
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
The thing that was the same in both cases, was you. So the configuration is wrong in both instances - you consistently setup the MIDI ports improperly.


Easy, there.

Until Yamaha masters plug and play, let's remember that getting a Yamaha keyboard and ANY computer to happily behave itself over MIDI is more difficult than connecting printers and printer drivers.

It is definitely not your computer (I don’t have enough info to say it’s the computer) … it is the MIDI configuration you are setting up… that is still my belief. Once you get the correct MIDI configuration, the weirdness will stop.


Here's the real problem, above in bold. MIDI and Yamaha connections are ethereal, and require religious faith that they can and will work.

Look to the west whilst scratching your left ear, place an unopened beer next to the sustain cable port, and pray to the digits that bits and Bytes find love.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 9
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
So to end this thread - now have solved it my self ;)

I reinstalled the whole MacBook Pro, totally erased the harddrive, and reinstalled OSX, Logic, Yamaha Steinberg USB drivers. Hooked it up with my Allen & Heath SQ-6 mixer as an Audio engine.

Did the exact same setup with Montage, MIDI, Audio (I did it all by the book, and correct from the beginning)!

And VOALA - it works perfectly! :-)

Thanks, everyone though trying to help me figure this out.

Yamaha support - no help.. 15 days have gone since I filed the support ticket - not a sign or response since then. BAD!
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 10
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
So to end this thread - now have solved it my self ;)

I reinstalled the whole MacBook Pro, totally erased the harddrive, and reinstalled OSX, Logic, Yamaha Steinberg USB drivers. Hooked it up with my Allen & Heath SQ-6 mixer as an Audio engine.

Did the exact same setup with Montage, MIDI, Audio (I did it all by the book, and correct from the beginning)!

And VOALA - it works perfectly! :-)

Thanks, everyone though trying to help me figure this out.

Yamaha support - no help.. 15 days have gone since I filed the support ticket - not a sign or response since then. BAD!
Glad to hear that you figured it out. And I’m particularly glad it was not the MONTAGE (Yamaha), after all.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 11
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