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  1. John
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. Saturday, 16 March 2019
Hello,
I’m deciding between the Montage and the Kronos and have a lot of questions pertaining to the general workflow and interconnection of the montage with Logic Pro X, Roland V drums and sending/ receiving files from Logic using montage connect. Here goes:
• I’ve seen a couple 3rd party conversion work arounds to import montage’s VST 3 files to Logic Pro X but can someone please describe the process as something simple or does it really entail 3rd party software conversion to import Montage recordings into Logic and vice versa?

• Is it possible to also upload a Logic recording (as a .wav or mp3 or similar) as a sequence or to the Montage as a backing track like Kronos can do?

• Is it possible to edit the Montage’s installed arpeggios to customize them to any great extent?

•Korg markets Kronos as being able to take midi data from an external source to generate arpeggios which is interesting but I cannot find any more info on this procss and if that includes using a V drum kit to set up the arp. I have a Roland V drum kit and I anticipate it would work well for me to program root arpeggios manually based on drum rhythms. I imagine connecting the v drums to the montage via midi would allow something similar but can someone please help me understand what that interface would be like and how I might use the v drum kit and the montage together.

Thanks very much.
Responses (5)
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
• I’ve seen a couple 3rd party conversion work arounds to import montage’s VST 3 files to Logic Pro X but can someone please describe the process as something simple or does it really entail 3rd party software conversion to import Montage recordings into Logic and vice versa?
I am not sure what 3rd party conversion workarounds you are referring to or why they would be necessary, the MONTAGE CONNECT utility works as an AU (Audio Units) for Logic Pro (since Logic is not VST3 compatible). Recordings made in the MONTAGE Song Recorder can be moved from the MONTAGE internal memory, literally, by drag n drop using the MONTAGE CONNECT utility. Your composition appears as a .mid icon in a SONG folder within MONTAGE CONNECT... you pick it up and drop it in your Favorite DAW, and it expands to separate MIDI TRACKS. Easy.

• Is it possible to also upload a Logic recording (as a .wav or mp3 or similar) as a sequence or to the Montage as a backing track like Kronos can do?
Sorry, I don’t know how Kronos does it, but you can import a .wav or aiff File (16-Bit Or 24-Bit) directly to MONTAGE where you can trigger it like any onboard Waveform. It can be loaded to any key or set of Keys and triggered like any audio in memory.

• Is it possible to edit the Montage’s installed arpeggios to customize them to any great extent?
The MONTAGE features eight simultaneous Arpeggiators with over 10,000 Arpeggio Phrases. These chord intelligent or fixed phrases are freely assignable to any Part and can be manipulated in real-time by Arp Play Effects — which alter the timing, duration, feel, and attitude of the phrases. Arpeggio data that is user created can be stored onboard... 256 User Arp Phrase can be stored in the User Bank times the 8 Libraries which also can hold 256 User Phrases each. Preset Arp Phrases can be recorded to your DAW, edited and reinstalled in the MONTAGE internal memory.

User Arp conversion can be done by simply loading or playing data to the built-in Song Recorder as MIDI data. Virtually any data can be converted to a MONTAGE Arp. Yamaha has reinvented the Arpeggiator as a musical tool over the last twenty years it has gone from a simple device to an extremely musical construction tool. Arpeggio Phrases extend beyond just Note flourishes, to include sophisticated Controller movements, and these have been expanded to its own power function called the Motion Sequencer... which is similar to the Note Arpeggiator, except for parameter changes rather than Note-On events. You can automate just about any parameter changes with Motion phrases. 8 Motion Sequences can be active simultaneously.

•Korg markets Kronos as being able to take midi data from an external source to generate arpeggios which is interesting but I cannot find any more info on this procss and if that includes using a V drum kit to set up the arp. I have a Roland V drum kit and I anticipate it would work well for me to program root arpeggios manually based on drum rhythms. I imagine connecting the v drums to the montage via midi would allow something similar but can someone please help me understand what that interface would be like and how I might use the v drum kit and the montage together.
Again, I cannot address anything about Korg, but you can find several articles that delve into the Arpeggiators here on YamahaSynth. You can use your electronic drum Kit to record and create your own custom Arpeggios. The Note data can be fed directly to the MONTAGE or you could record to your DAW (Edit the data, then import it into the MONTAGE where you can convert the data to User Arp phrases). You can use it as MIDI data in the Arpeggiators, or you can import you electronic drum playing as .wav.... convert it to MONTAGE Waveforms and utilize it within the architecture of the MONTAGE.

If you connect the V Drum Audio Outputs to MONTAGE A/D In, it can become a building block with the MONTAGE’s Motion Control Synthesis Engine. Not only can MONTAGE detect tempo from audio input, but by running the audio through the MONTAGE engine, the V Drum can occupy a KBD CTRL Part (Zone). It will have its own Dual Insertion Effects, it’s own Sends to the Reverb and Variation Effects, it’s own EQ, Volume, Pan, etc. and because you can use a MONTAGE Zone/Part to Control it, you can morph it in and out of your Performances as if it were an internal sound. While this is uncharted territory, we receive reports of many innovative uses of the A/D IN possibilities concerning external synths, e.drums, guitars, etc., etc. The audio output of the drums can be used as a “modifier” within the Synthesis Engine... you can use its signal to trigger the Vocoder, you can send it to the Envelope Follower.... each drum hit could be used to modify the output level of a Modulator in an FM-X Modulator:Carrier stack... the result would be like opening the filter — you get the FM sound to animate to the rhythms. Of course, anything can be made to “follow” the “envelope” created by the rhythmic hits... so you could apply it to actually opening a filter, or to any of scores and scores of destinations.

Extra Credit: Additional Reading
Arpeggio Making 101
Mastering MONTAGE: The 4-Track Arpeggio
MONTAGifying Motif: Free Fall (Guitar Arp Study)
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 1
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Is it possible to edit the Montage’s installed arpeggios to customize them to any great extent?


You cannot edit the preset arpeggios. You can create your own, but the interface is severely lacking, in my opinion. Also, the chord recognition feature does not really work for user created arpeggios, see this thread for reference:
https://www.yamahasynth.com/ask-a-question/question-about-recognition-of-inverted-chords-in-arp
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 2
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
The process for editing preset arpeggios, if this is really something you want to do, would be to play the arpeggio and record the output to MIDI then edit this MIDI data in a DAW like Cubase (free with Montage). It is true that you cannot modify the presets since they are read-only but you can make a "copy" of the ARP and edit this by doing some legwork.

Chord recognition "not really working" is a matter of interpretation. You can see the chords not recognized were inverted triads that have specific intervals. These inversions would generally be ambiguous even by a human if no root context was given. The chord intelligence is advertised to work a certain way and Montage does meet this. If you want a specific inversion of a specific chord spelling - then the chord intelligence may not do what you wanted (a specific interpretation) - and this is what is referenced here that may not "really work" if that's absolutely what you want. The thread has more specific detail. The chord interpreted by Montage is not wrong - it follows a convention which, itself, is correct. But ambiguous arrangements of notes have several possible chord spellings and it seems, in this case, Yamaha's algorithm assumes a more "colorful" chord than another possible interpretation - this is where your genre may not match - but chord intelligence is fixed to one set of rules.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 3
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Jason is right, "not really working" needs some context. The chord recognition is not really working for my purpose.

My purpose is detection of a second inversion major triad in a user arp. That does not work.

I was also considering the Korg Kronos, but ended up getting the Montage. Mainly because it seems more modern. It looks better and it has a more modern UI. However, there are some design decisions Yamaha has made about the Montage that I don't like. The Montage seems to favour convention over configuration. That is a really powerful design pattern that gets you places fast. But if you want to go somewhere that convention does not allow, you are in trouble if there is no override option. And that is often the case for Montage.

For instance, Montage is 16 part multitimbral, and each part will transmit and receive on a predefined MIDI channel. Part 1 on channel 1, part 2 on channel 2, etc. That is smart. It removes confusion. But some times you might need to have part 1 on channel 9 or something. You can't do that with Montage. You need an external MIDI translator for that.

Another thing is the chord recognition thing. The convention is that a second inversion major triad is detected as a 6 chord. If you don't want that, then it's just too bad. There is no option to change the default behaviour. For me, this means that I have to use a laptop on stage to do that job instead.

Then there is the Montage Connect utility. It will allow you to download MIDI files recorded on the Montage to your computer, but it does not allow you to send a MIDI file/clip from you computer to the Montage. To do that, you either need to use a USB stick, or actually record the midi into the Montage. That's not about convention over configuration, it just odd.

The Montage functions as a 32 in 6 out USB audio interface. Each of the 16 parts can be routed to a stereo digital input to the computer. (The parts are actually freely assignable to USB inputs, so here there is no convention.) You can then record the audio, or add effects and send it back out through the montage outputs (which I like to do). But, if you want to send part 1 to the computer for adding effects and part 2 straight to the main outputs, you are out of luck. You have to send all parts to the computer and back again. You can't selectively enable direct monitoring of parts. Again, why not?

The rest works quite well for me. But I think those points are relevant when considering Kronos vs Montage.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 4
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Yes, why the power of a USB port is not more effectively used for data transfer in both directions provides an annoyance. BTW: USB version 4 is on the horizon with first specs coming out. Maybe we'll start to see USB 3 out of future Yamaha synths for faster transfer times and better PC integration.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 5
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