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  1. Manuel
  2. Sherlock Holmes The Voice
  3. MONTAGE
  4. Wednesday, 21 December 2016
Hello,

when you play your Montage do you use internal FX or external FX like pedals and plug-in?
How do you rate Montage FX?
Responses (9)
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
External effects for me are too much bloat (too much to carry). However, even some Montage demos have shown that an enhanced external rotary speaker simulator can improve the organ sound - so there is a tutorial using one of those. No doubt a pedal board will give more control over the tone color - but the internal effects have all of the "primary color" bases covered.

Myself, I get by using the built-in effects. I've recently added an expression pedal which gives another control "surface" for invoking the wah effect, doing swells, etc.

I guess external effects can also give you more direct control since external effects can have lots of buttons to press and knobs to turn that would otherwise be somewhat buried if used directly on Montage.

Like a guitar player - you can choose everything from a wire direct from your guitar to an amplified speaker - or have a monster pedal board with effects duplicated insertion/post/stereo/etc. The field is wide open and can be tailored to fit your expression needs. Unlike the guitar, there's already an arsenal of stock effects built in.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 1
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Thank you for your reply, I'll check them when my Montage will arrive the next month...
I have already a H9 Max so I will do a Yamaha FX vs Eventide FX :D
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 2
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Hello Manuel - I am ploughing through the Montage Effects library - Insertion, System, and Master - with considerable assistance from BM and Jason - and so far I find them disappointing. I have little use for 'odd' effects, being traditional, and am happy with the 'traditional' effects like Reverb, Chorus, Tremolo, Delay and Echo. Perhaps a little Phaser. But so far, the depth of effect on Montage seems lacking, and I have not been able to produce any 'outrageous' results. That could simply be my lack of understanding of the Montage architecture, but my thoughts are turning to an external effects unit - my ancient ART FXR may be pressed back into service. If it still works!

You will find your Montage fascinating! It is frustrating, wonderful, annoying, delightful, disappointing, staggering, frivolous, and awesome all at the same time or in no particular order. It talks to you. It is mysterious and elusive. It's not just a machine.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 3
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I do not find the effects to lack in depth - either in selection or in ability to turn the effects up to a more-than-obvious level. My main "gripe" with effects has been in the limitations in terms of where they can be inserted. For example, the reverbs have an extensive list at the performance (global) level - and a very scaled down selection at the PART level. You'll get "feedback" that having all of the reverb types at the part level "doesn't make sense" (or match reality) since instruments are contained in a single room with one reverb characteristic - so it "makes most sense" to apply reverb to the final output "stage" to match the room characteristics of the virtual musicians (your parts). Where I take exception to this perspective is if I want to make a performance with multiple guitars. Each of my virtual guitarists wants to have his own effects pedals, amps - which invoke different reverbs and an array of other effects - which are different between my acoustic player and the electric player and the distorted lead player. That said, there are still lots of effects to select even at the part level.

When you "pull up" an effect - notice there are presets. You can change the preset to a different type for most. Sometimes there are two categories of presets (a preset "matrix";). If you want to really "juice up" the effect - change the dry/wet level so D=W or D<W## (make the signal equal dry to wet, or more wet than dry).

Yes, there are "novelty" effects (there are some great uses for these even for bread-and-butter applications) - but everything you asked for is available at the PART level. Meaning every PART can have its own two effects. Although reverb and variation are global (you "dial in" an amount of reverb or variation - fyi: variation in previous generations was called "chorus" - for each part, but the same reverb/variation type is provided for all parts). Even every PART has a selection (although limited) of reverbs that can be one of the two insertion effects.

At the PART level:

Reverb - Check (yes) - 5 types - lots of presets per type (not repeating this last note below)
Chorus - Check - 5 types
Tremelo - Check - 3 types
Delay - Check - 9 types
Echo - Check - 5 types (Delay types that have "echo" as parameters - actually are 9 delay types total)
Phaser - Check - 5 types
... there are other "bread and butter" effects such as:
Distortion - Actually Amp Simulation (not necessarily distortion) - 12 types
Example: Distortion type Amp Simulator 1 has a preset "J-Clean", which I would imagine would be a clean Jazz Chorus. There are lots of other "not distortion" amp simulation presets.
Compressor - 3 types
Flanger - 5 types
Wah - 3 types
Ring modulator - 2 types
... list is not complete. I found "Early Reflection" to be a useful alternate reverb type

I would actually invite you to look at the data list since it does list the preset names. Taking a look at page 155, for example, I see under "Misc" effects that "Stereophonic Optimizer" has presets named "Acoustic Piano", "Drum", "EP Tremelo", "Organ", and "Sax" - which is an interesting list of presets. Of course something like this is obviously going to depend on L&R speakers (STEREOphonic). Rather than pick out an extremely useful effect - I'm just pointing out that the manual with the list of presets does provide "inspiration".

Also, when dealing with anything affecting the audio path (effects, reverb, variation) - you need to fully understand both how to "turn up" the given effect/reverb/variation - and also understand what PART(s) will be effected. It's best to start with a sterile sound like a clean guitar - remove any reverb or effects (if already there). Make sure the effects are not switched off.

It's a whole other set of parameters to wrap your head around and understand how it works.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 4
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I do not find the effects to lack in depth - either in selection or in ability to turn the effects up to a more-than-obvious level. My main "gripe" with effects has been in the limitations in terms of where they can be inserted. For example, the reverbs have an extensive list at the performance (global) level - and a very scaled down selection at the PART level. You'll get "feedback" that having all of the reverb types at the part level "doesn't make sense" (or match reality) since instruments are contained in a single room with one reverb characteristic - so it "makes most sense" to apply reverb to the final output "stage" to match the room characteristics of the virtual musicians (your parts). Where I take exception to this perspective is if I want to make a performance with multiple guitars. Each of my virtual guitarists wants to have his own effects pedals, amps - which invoke different reverbs and an array of other effects - which are different between my acoustic player and the electric player and the distorted lead player. That said, there are still lots of effects to select even at the part level.
Sorry, I didn't catch this bit of misinformation earlier. Not until pointed out by a long time Yamaha end user that this statement above is untrue/misleading.

The Reverb Type are available, of course, as apart of the System (Send/Return) routing... where each Part has a Send amount via the on board mixer. The dedicated System Reverb and the System Variation both include Reverb types to choose from. But also Reverb types are available for individual assignment to Parts as an Insertion Effect. Insertion Effect Reverbs can be inserted on any Part (a personal Reverb) so you can certainly accomplish what you state. Just FYI.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 5
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
There is absolutely no misinformation here. I did not claim that Reverb types at the PART level were absent altogether, I said the list is scaled down from the global reverb list.

PART level reverb (via InsA/B = scaled down list, although a few are "adders";):

SPX Hall
SPX Room
SPX Stage
Gated Reverb+
Reverse Reverb+

PERFORMANCE level reverb (parenthetical reverbs are ones also available in PART level):

HD Hall
REV-X Hall
R3 Hall
(SPX Hall)
HD Room
REV-X Room
R3 Room
(SPX Room)
HD Plate
R3 Stage
(SPX Stage)
Space Simulator

I will add, as a means to dampen the "gripe" and not mislead the reader, that the Reverbs is really the only example of effects which are limited at the PART level. Variation (at PERFORMANCE level) is a duplication of the PART-level effects.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 6
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Where I take exception to this perspective is if I want to make a performance with multiple guitars. Each of my virtual guitarists wants to have his own effects pedals, amps - which invoke different reverbs and an array of other effects - which are different between my acoustic player and the electric player and the distorted lead player.
Each of your "virtual guitars" can have their own Effects pedals, amps that have different Reverbs.

Perhaps others and myself just don't see what you mean... anyway glad you recognize your gripe holds no real place in reality! :)
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 7
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Happy holidays.

What I was expressing is that you have used this argument, in error, relating the limitations in choices to physical space.

I would prefer the PART level to include the extra reverbs:

HD Hall
REV-X Hall
R3 Hall
HD Room
REV-X Room
R3 Room
HD Plate
R3 Stage
Space Simulator

Which they do not. The reality I side with is thinking of an effect more as a box for tonal variation ("limitless";) rather than trying to relate to a physical space ("limited";).

Anyhow - not to get off in the weeds because you're trying to twist this reverb limitation back into your previous hand waving - back to my original more main point:

The effects are high in count - do have high flexibility in terms of settings - are mostly (except reverb) available at a PART level - meaning you can have a different set in each of 8 simultaneously keyboard controlled parts (of course each of the 16 parts can have their own set). Experiment with the vast array of presets and crank up the "wet" level (if you want more insertion effect).
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 8
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