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  1. seagreg
  2. Sherlock Holmes
  3. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  4. Tuesday, 19 October 2021
Ideascale is full of good ideas for MONTAGE and other keyboards. But was is happening - Nearly nothing !!!
Is there nothing to implement in a new firmware - really ??
What the is the sence of Ideasacale. I don`t understand.
Or is the MONTAGE eol ?
Responses (31)
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Ideascale is part of a long tradition: obfuscation and distraction - by companies - used to placate and isolate.

It works so well that we've got an entire world doing it.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 1
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Ideascale is full of good ideas for MONTAGE and other keyboards. But was is happening - Nearly nothing !!!
Is there nothing to implement in a new firmware - really ??
What the is the sence of Ideasacale. I don`t understand.
Or is the MONTAGE eol ?


Actually, they changed IdeaScale and started categorizing ideas several months back. And various Montage/MODX ideas have changed their status (a few times in some cases), which to me indicates they are prioritizing the ideas a bit for consideration by the Yamaha Voicing team, the Engineers and others that have a part in deciding which ideas to work towards implementing next. In my opinion and from what I've seen/known since I first came across the Montage & MODX, the two Synths are a pair that are quite integrated in functionality & compatibility, so unless there is a real need & market for a new flagship Montage replacement right now (which I don't see there being), they are not going to be replacing the Montage, and are going to continue riding out the Montage/MODX duo until sales really dry up.

I thought maybe they would have had the big Montage OS 4.0 upgrade out by now, but my prediction was wrong...I blame Covid :p
But it could also be that they are implementing some very huge new features & enhancements, for OS 4.0 major release, therefore it is taking longer than they might have between OS upgrades in the past..!?

Although I don't expect anything more, I still think there are more OS upgrades coming for the Montage over the next several years at least... :)
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 2
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Ideascale is part of a long tradition: obfuscation and distraction - by companies - used to placate and isolate.
It works so well that we've got an entire world doing it.



I can't say I have the same outlook with regard to ideascale. Sure most of the ideas that I've added or 'Up Voted' have not been realized yet in an OS update; however I have had some ideas that were completed & provided in a past OS update (not that I was necessarily the only one who posted the particular idea, because some of mine may have been the same as another person's idea that I didn't see or missed)

Add [KBD CTRL] to SCENE Mixing! (Montage/MODX)
https://yamahasynth.ideascale.com/a/dtd/Add-KBD-CTRL-to-SCENE-Mixing!-Montage-MODX/230456-45978
(Status = Complete)

Montage/MODX Pitch Bend micro Stepping-like Sound - Not 'Smooth'
https://yamahasynth.ideascale.com/a/dtd/Montage-MODX-Pitch-Bend-micro-Stepping-like-Sound-Not-Smooth/231136-45978
(Status = Assessment); however they already provided an enhancement in OS 3.5, so this likely should be set as Complete

Save & Recall the SONG that's loaded when a Performance is Saved
https://yamahasynth.ideascale.com/a/dtd/Save-Recall-the-SONG-that-s-loaded-when-a-Performance-is-Saved/237691-45978
(Status = Assessment); however this should also be set to Complete because as of a recent update we can now store Songs with Performances under 'Live Set'

*Although, maybe it's because of the way the SONGs are Stored and yet 'not' Saved to a User File that they didn't mark my idea above as complete!?, which prompted me to add this idea:
Save/Include SONGs Stored in User Memory when Saving a User File
https://yamahasynth.ideascale.com/a/dtd/Save-Include-SONGs-Stored-in-User-Memory-when-Saving-a-User-File/278980-45978
(Status = Assessment)

Add Element ON/OFF Switch Control to 'Scenes'
https://yamahasynth.ideascale.com/a/dtd/Add-Element-ON-OFF-Switch-Control-to-Scenes/259029-45978
(Status = Assessment) ...I think this might be one of the easiest ideas for them to implement, similar to adding KBD CTRL to Scenes.
_________________________

There are many other people's ideas that I would really love to see make the cut in the next OS upgrade, and this is one of my top picks by @Jason :
More Non-Vibrato Preset Waveforms for AWM2 in Synths
https://yamahasynth.ideascale.com/a/dtd/More-Non-Vibrato-Preset-Waveforms-for-AWM2-in-Synths/233270-45978
(Status = Assessment)
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 3
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
The difference, and it's masterful, is that they can sit halfway between being a producer of a product and a service provider, with all the benefits of both.

I'm not denying the genius of democratising consumerism.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 4
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Ideascale is full of good ideas for MONTAGE and other keyboards. But was is happening - Nearly nothing !!!
Is there nothing to implement in a new firmware - really ??
What the is the sence of Ideasacale. I don`t understand.
Or is the MONTAGE eol ?


I'm sharing the same question.
And It would be great if Phil "Bad Mister" could answer to these questions. In advance, thank you Phil.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 5
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I think the new Fantom came out and put in a bunch of things that Montage did not have and it threw Yamaha a curveball. They claimed people didnt want a work station anymore. Then covid arrived and so everything is stuck now. They cant release an update if people cannot buy the Montage right now. shipping problems, etc.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 6
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I think the new Fantom came out and put in a bunch of things that Montage did not have and it threw Yamaha a curveball. They claimed people didnt want a work station anymore. Then covid arrived and so everything is stuck now. They cant release an update if people cannot buy the Montage right now. shipping problems, etc.


Yamaha Montage 6,7 and 8 are immediatly available everywhere in USA (Sweetwater, Guitarcenter, Music Store, etc...) and Europe (Thomann, etc....). So this is not an obstacle for an update.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 7
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
The difference, and it's masterful, is that they can sit halfway between being a producer of a product and a service provider, with all the benefits of both.
I'm not denying the genius of democratising consumerism.


Maybe they are benefiting from both ... at the same time, we as Montage owners are benefiting each time they release a new OS update with some of these ideas we asked for being added into that update. We basically get a brand new synth with each OS upgrade with new features & enhancements, without having to go out and buy new hardware. Yamaha are not getting more money from us, so we basically get a new and improved model for free.
Where Yamaha benefits is in customer loyalty & confidence in their products, knowing that Yamaha have proven that you will get way more bang for your buck and longevity in their Montage product, as well as the MODX. This generates sales (for the Montage, but especially for the MODX) and future proofs new products they come up with. So that some day, years from now, when they finally release a new hardware Synth to replace the Montage, Yamaha will have laid the foundation and developed the reputation that will make us want to buy their product, knowing that it will be around for a long time with numerous 'free' enhancements along the way...

If you look at the top/most popular ideas on ideascale, "Add an AN and VL synthesis engine to the Montage" is at the top.
Yamaha just gave people a new sequencer in a recent upgrade. People asked for it and Yamaha added it. Now both the Montage & MODX are basically new enhanced synths as a result. So I think they are going to add an AN / VL synth engine in a future upgrade, most likely in 4.0 seeing as Roland have added so many new engines to their Fantom. Remember they even asked us in a survey what we would prefer to see added in a future upgrade... I think Yamaha are doing a decent job in listening to customers and because they have gone the software update route in their product roadmap, instead of new physical hardware (which Roland have now copied), it makes it easier & cost effective for them to renew & enhance their existing hardware product's (Montage & MODX)!

Also something to note...many of the ideas that we add on ideascale for Yamaha to hopefully implement, they have already thought of these & were already considering them as possible enhancements at some point. In many cases, we aren't giving them new ideas they've never thought of, but instead all we are doing is letting them know which enhancements we would most like to see.
Adding 'KBD CTRL' to Scenes is a perfect example. They had this on their list when they first released the Montage. You only have to check all the free areas under Scenes and other menus to see that they have designed the Montage for adding new enhancements. I won't be surprised if they either rename the 'KBD CTRL' tab under Scenes in the next OS Upgrade to 'KBD CTRL/Element SW', or maybe just add a new tab under Scenes called 'Element SW' (or possibly 'Element On/OFF'). Check out all the free space under Category Search > Init. It would take a good deal of engineering, but I won't be shocked to see the AN and VL synthesis engine show up there in 4.0
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 8
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
As I say, it works. You've got whole narratives about it going on.

The bigger issue is getting and keeping good programmers and getting and keeping them working well. In these times, all four of these things is VERY difficult. Unfortunately, before these times, Yamaha was already struggling with these four issues.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 9
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I think the new Fantom came out and put in a bunch of things that Montage did not have and it threw Yamaha a curveball. They claimed people didnt want a work station anymore. Then covid arrived and so everything is stuck now. They cant release an update if people cannot buy the Montage right now. shipping problems, etc.


Yamaha Montage 6,7 and 8 are immediately available everywhere in USA (Sweetwater, Guitarcenter, Music Store, etc...) and Europe (Thomann, etc....). So this is not an obstacle for an update.


I stand corrected. I guess I thought with the ports being backed up and chip shortages, this could have slowed down new gear coming to the stores. I had read some poster said he couldnt find a Montage.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 10
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Ideascale is part of a long tradition: obfuscation and distraction - by companies - used to placate and isolate.

I don't think they'd be bothering with the time and expense of ideascale (including having someone evaluate the ideas, respond to some of them, categorize them as to which were under consideration) merely to provide an illusion of consumer input. It may not be the single driving force of development, or even necessarily one of the most important ones, but I don't think it's totally irrelevant to them either. And it's more than other manufacturers do, in terms of providing for consumer input.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 11
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
They've resold you.

That's what these platforms do. They resell to existing users, so you don't go loudly buying something else and loudly telling others why you've switched.

It's got a value... it's just not what you think it is.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 12
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
They've resold you.

I'm manufacturer-agnostic. I own boards from Yamaha, Kurzweil, Korg, Dexibell, Roland, Nord, Casio... all have something worthwhile to offer.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 13
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
They've resold you.

I'm manufacturer-agnostic. I own boards from Yamaha, Kurzweil, Korg, Dexibell, Roland, Nord, Casio... all have something worthwhile to offer.


Exactly.

It works!

The placation prevents you from selling it to buy something else, as you're unsatisfied desires for the product are placated by their portending of possible future potential potential.

That, in and of itself, you have to admit, is the genius of the "give us your thoughts" methodology... across all products and services. It's when you realise this that you truly come to understand what web 2.0 actually means, and that it's really all about the consumer as a product and a service. It flips the script. We think of web 2.0 as an antiquated and quaint obsolete terminology without often recognising that our ways are what it's all about, not what it pretends to provide us.

And your personal opinions and disquiet about the current state are isolated, within Ideascale, as is your general disquiet, because that's the "correct" place to express those things, and the only meaningful place (you believe) to express those things, because they told you so.

Consumers placated and isolated.

You'll get it, one day, hopefully before you're taking your 7th booster.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 14
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
The placation prevents you from selling it to buy something else, as you're unsatisfied desires for the product are placated by their portending of possible future potential potential.
Not at all. Rather, my unsatisfied desires for the product are placated by other products. I don't believe in buying something based on what it may do in the future. If something doesn't do the best job available for what I need it for today(within the apporpriate budget and weight limits), I'll buy something else. And if I buy something new, I don't necessarily sell the first thing, because that thing may still be better for different uses. Nothing is the best choice for everything.

If I have the ability to offer suggestions that may make something better, I'll do it. But I don't count on those things being implemented, and I don't delay buying something else on the off chance that they may be implemented to one extent or another at some unknown point in the future. That would be silly. The existence of postings on ideascale has no impact whatsoever on whether I keep or sell my MODX, or whether I do or do not buy something else. I bought Yamahas, Korgs, Rolands, etc. in the 70s/80s, and I've bought more things from those companies this century, and Ideascale wasn't a factor in either century.

Also, while my MODX was a great purchase, I ended up returning the YC61 and CP73 because they missed the mark for me... but I did post my suggestions on ideascale. I wasn't going to hold on to those boards hoping that Yamaha may eventually make those changes. I have bought (and kept) a number of other boards since buying the MODX7, though.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 15
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Also, while my MODX was a great purchase, I ended up returning the YC61 and CP73 because they missed the mark for me... but I did post my suggestions on ideascale. I wasn't going to hold on to those boards hoping that Yamaha may eventually make those changes.


Did you miss the overlap?

And your personal opinions and disquiet about the current state are isolated, within Ideascale, as is your general disquiet, because that's the "correct" place to express those things, and the only meaningful place (you believe) to express those things, because they told you so.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 16
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Ideascale was not the only place I expressed my opinions about the strengths and weaknesses of these boards... I also post here and on keyboard corner at the musicplayer forum and pianoworld and other places, and comment freely. So no, my criticisms have not been "isolated" to the "correct" place. But I put them there as well, in case they might actually have some impact on future design.

So you were wrong in suggesting that ideascale will prompt me to keep a board I'd otherwise get rid of, and you're wrong in suggesting that Ideascale will make it less likely that I will discuss a product's shortcomings elsewhere.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 17
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Ideascale was not the only place I expressed my opinions about the strengths and weaknesses of these boards... I also post here and on keyboard corner at the musicplayer forum and pianoworld and other places, and comment freely. So no, my criticisms have not been "isolated" to the "correct" place. But I put them there as well, in case they might actually have some impact on future design.

So you were wrong in suggesting that ideascale will prompt me to keep a board I'd otherwise get rid of, and you're wrong in suggesting that Ideascale will make it less likely that I will discuss a product's shortcomings elsewhere.


you forgot to add:

"...and you're wrong because I correctly view the behaviour and responses of everyone through the distilled prism of my own behaviour and responses."
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 18
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
you forgot to add:

"...and you're wrong because I correctly view the behaviour and responses of everyone through the distilled prism of my own behaviour and responses."

You made it about me personally. (See e.g. "They've resold you" and your response to my saying I'm platform-agnostic.) If you believe I'm an example of what you're describing, it makes sense for me to reply from that perspective and explain why I'm not.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 19
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
It was always about the royal you. Any discussion of a mechanism such as this is, by definition, about the trends of corporatism towards absolving themselves of all forms of responsibility. We're seeing that play out on a scale that is only possible because of the full extent of such mechanisms.

What you personally do is also within that framework, and an indicator, despite your protestations to the contrary. These systems work perfectly to diminish your voice (both personally and the royal you) whilst convincing you (both personally and the royal you) otherwise.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 20
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