YamahaSynth.com Forums

This is the place to talk about all things related to Yamaha Synthesizers!
  1. Birgir
  2. MODX
  3. Sunday, 20 October 2019
Hi guys,

New to the forum with a question, which I haven't found a definitive answer to yet..

I want to create a couple of performances with up to 2 parts on a secondary keyboard (Novation Impulse 61 to be excact)
and being able to use footswitch controller to control volume via expression pedal..

One sound would be a piano on the lower keyboard (MODX) and 2 clarinet sounds on the MIDI keyboard

The other performance would be a classic organ sound on the upper MIDI keyboard, and being able to use the Expression pedal to control the swell - and hopefully the sustain pedal to control the rotary speed function.

With a piano on the MODX.


I've been through the manual and numerous forum posts and not yet cracked this problem.. Something I would've done in 2 minutes using Mainstage 3 :P

Any thoughts?

Thanks in advance,
kind regards

Biggi
Responses (17)
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Hey Biggi,
Welcome to YamahaSynth!

It is not clear from what you have written thus far what it is you want to do.
Since you can do this in 2 minutes with MainStage, why are you spending all this time trying to do this, are you not using MainStage? You don’t say.

How are you connecting your the keyboards? Through a computer? With a standard 5-pin MIDI cable? Everything we read about your chosen other keyboard talks about using it with a DAW? What DAW are you connecting through? Are you connecting through a computer?

To get started, first, build the sounds you wish to use into a MODX Performance. This we can help you with (since we will need to depend on your knowledge of the DAW, MainStage, and whatever external keyboard you wish to use). You refer to the MODX as the master keyboard, (this usually means it is the one you are playing the Keys on and the other device is the one making the sounds, does the Novation make sounds?) in other words which one is the “master keyboard”?

Start by selecting the instrument sounds you wish to use and place them in a MODX Performance. By the way, the MODX is always in Performance mode and can play one Performance at a time.
Do you know how to “merge” the sounds you wish to use into a MODX Performance?
If not, pick them and we can start there... what we need to know from you is your selections.

Let us know.

Additional questions:
A Foot Switch is an On/Off device. It is inappropriate to control Expression which is a 0 through 127 continuous function... a device like an FC7 sweep pedal would be appropriate to control Expression properly.
The Sustain Pedal is a dedicated controller, it only does the Sustain function. A Foot Switch (On/Off) would be more practical for rotary speaker speed control (Chorale/Tremolo). The Speed Control is typically assigned to the MW which is most like the ‘half-moon’ Switch modification found on most B3’s
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX
  3. # 1
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
The Novation Impulse is a MIDI controller without internal sounds.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX
  3. # 2
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
The thread is entitled as if the MODX was to be the Master Keyboard

(?)
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX
  3. # 3
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Bad Mister,

I believe what Jason wants to do is use the MODX to call up a performance that would allow him to play sounds internally from the MODX, and at the same time use a midi controller (Novation) to play parts of the same performance remotely. Does the MODX allow separate MIDI channels for different parts within a performance? If so, can that MIDI channel information be assigned in the different scenes? If this wasn't what he was asking, this is something I would like to know.

Thanks,
Mike
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX
  3. # 4
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Yes. The MODX allows 16 Parts per Performance. As many as eight Parts, 1-8, can be linked by “KBD CTRL” to be played simultaneously... either by the MODX keys (by *selecting* any of the linked Parts), or by your external controller via MIDI, by transmitting on the channel you set for the linked Parts

Press [UTILITY] > “Settings” > “Advanced” > Set “MIDI I/O Mode” = Hybrid
Select a Channel on which the “linked” Parts will be addressed together.

All non-linked Parts transmit and receive on their correspondingly numbered Channels.
You play them from the MODX keys by *selecting* them directly.
You play them from your external keyboard by transmitting on their MIDI channel.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX
  3. # 5
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I was just reading now in a local forum about this matter and what I thought could be done, now I am not so clear and I have become alarmed. I will try to give an example as clear as possible in case you can help me:

I have a Performance with 12 parts. Can I simultaneously use the first 8 on the MODX itself and the parts from 9 to 12 on the controller keyboard? If possible, how is it done?

I thought that Hybrid mode came to solve this lack in MODX / MONTAGE but I have read that it only allows two parts to be joined in the same midi channel. I'm in trouble.

Please help!!
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX
  3. # 6
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I have a Performance with 12 parts. Can I simultaneously use the first 8 on the MODX itself and the parts from 9 to 12 on the controller keyboard? If possible, how is it done?
You can and always could simultaneously use the first 8 Parts linked by KBD CTRL. Without information on your external controller we cannot definitively tell you if you can control channels 9, 10, 11, and 12 simultaneously... but if you have a controller with four zones, of course you can. It takes a Zone transmit to each Part receive. If your external controller only Transmits on two zones you can pick any two. If it only Transmits on a single zone, you will only be able to control one of those Parts, 9-12.

Conversely, you can play as many of the first 8 Parts with your external controller using a single channel. “MIDI I/O Mode” = Hybrid allows the KBD CTRL linked Parts to receive and transmit on a single MIDI Channel (as a group). Even if your external controller only Transmits on a single channel, you can select a communication channel that will allow you to play all of the KBD CTRL linked Parts. This is the same as MIDI I/O Mode = Single... except, in Hybrid, the non-linked Parts are still accessible on their correspondingly numbered MIDI Channel.

Hybrid Mode solves the issue of winding up with multiple streams of MIDI data in your DAW when attempting to document a Multi Part single instrument program... like CFX CONCERT instead of four MIDI channels with exactly the same data, you now get just one stream of data that when played back, addresses all four Parts from the single stream.

Please see the excellent article in the latest Music Production Guide for details.

Music Production Guide 07/2019
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX
  3. # 7
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
My controller is Alesis Vortex Wireless 2, and I have read that it has 2 Split Zones, so I guess I only have two zones. However, if I have not misunderstood your Bad Mister message, if I transmit parts 9 through 12 on the same channel, they can all sound on the controller, right? Also, if I program these 4 parts in different keyboard areas in Performance, will this work on the controller?

Thanks Bad Mister!
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX
  3. # 8
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
KEYTAR.jpg ADVANCED.jpg MIDI IO.jpg PART 9.jpg PART 10.jpg

With this setting, I get part 9 on lower and part 10 on upper.
Is it possible through Hybrid that both parties sound together? If so, how?
On the other hand, from parts 1 to 8, can I make them sound from 1 to 4 in MODX and from 5 to 8 in the controller? If so, how?
Attachments (5)
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX
  3. # 9
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Assuming 2 zones for external controller ...

In multi-channel mode you must address all PARTs individually by PART #. If you have a 2-zone controller, you can only externally address 2 PARTs total.

In single-channel mode you can only externally address PARTs 1-8 that have keyboard control ON. Only one single channel. Your second zone cannot really be used.

In hybrid mode you can externally address PARTs 1-8 using one channel (external controller's first zone) as long as keyboard control=ON and the MIDI channel matches the configured receive MIDI channel. Then you can address one other keyboard control=OFF PART using your controller's second zone - since these PARTs will all be on unique MIDI receive channels (matching their PART number). The MIDI receive channels for keyboard control=OFF PARTs are never configurable in any mode.

MIDI transmit settings do not change receive channels. If you do change the MIDI transmit channels - you're using MODX's zone features. Using MODX zone features turns off hybrid and single mode and forces the keyboard to multi-channel mode. Use of MODX zone master features and Single/Hybrid modes are mutually exclusive. Which may present wrinkles in what's going on if you forget this.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX
  3. # 10
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Magnificent Jason! Following your instructions, I have managed to make two presets in the controller making the most of the limitations of the controller. A preset with a zone for part 9 and another zone for part 10, and parts 1 to 8 in the modx (this already had it). And another preset with a zone of the controller for parts 1 to 8 together, and another zone for part 9. It is not much, but I think more can not.

Now I tried one last thing with the 1 zone setting for parts 1 to 8: Make some parts sound in the modx alone, and other parts in the controller alone. For this I used the keyboard control key, and it doesn't work. I turn off one part and it only sounds in modx and all the others in the controller, but when I turn off another part, it is this part that sounds alone in modx and the previously turned off part disappears.

Is it not possible (playing with keyboard control) to play some parts in modx and others in the controller? Taking into account of course that the configuration described in the first paragraph indicated in bold works.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX
  3. # 11
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I'm not sure what you're seeing exactly since there may be missing information here. If you touch "keyboard control" on the touchscreen - this may simultaneously SELECT that same PART. Which "screws up" how keyboard control normally works.

I didn't cover the "screwy" keyboard control rules - because the focus was on only how they interact with external MIDI controllers and assuming a normal condition when you load the Performance and no (zero) PARTs are selected.

Before going any further, do me a favor and press the [PERFORMANCE] (HOME) button and retry what you were trying to do. As a last step before playing your PERFORMANCE, press that button to ensure no PARTs are selected. This is the easiest way to deselect all PARTs.

FYI - how Keyboard Control works for local keys is that if you have zero PARTs selected - then local piano keys will not trigger any PART with Keyboard Control=OFF. This makes sense. If you have --selected-- a PART that happens to have Keyboard Control=OFF, then what happens is that -only- this selected PART will make sound (is triggered). All other PARTs "pretend" like Keyboard Control=OFF and the --selected-- PART will "pretend" like Keyboard Control=ON. Meaning the local piano keys WILL trigger a PART with Keyboard Control=OFF if that PART happens to be selected - and simultaneously, all other PARTs (regardless of their setting) will NOT be triggered.

So maybe this is what you are seeing. Or maybe not - just want to make sure that hurdle is crossed.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX
  3. # 12
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Okay Jason!

I have done the check, and indeed, I had a selected part and it did not work as I expected. When putting the performance in home it does work as expected the keyboard control function locally. But in the controller, no. I expected to deactivate keyboard control, to stop ringing in the modx but to continue playing in the controller, and this does not happen. It does exactly the same in the controller as in the modx. When I deactivate a part in the modx using keyboard control, it is also deactivated in the controller. Is there a way to solve it? Can I deactivate a part (1-8) in modx and keep it playing on the controller?

thank you very much Jason !!
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX
  3. # 13
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
When you activate a Zone Switch within your Performance, this action overrides the MIDI I/O Mode settings: Single, Hybrid
The settings as made within that Performance will determine how the instrument behaves.

It is an either/or proposition. Either you are using the Zone setup that you configure for the current Performance or you are using the MIDI I/O Mode setting, Single or Hybrid.

When I deactivate a part in the modx using keyboard control, it is also deactivated in the controller. Is there a way to solve it? Can I deactivate a part (1-8) in modx and keep it playing on the controller?
If you have a number of Parts linked by KBD CTRL, if you deactivate the KBD CTRL icon, that Part now becomes available on the correspondingly numbered MIDI Channel.

Say you have an 8 Part Performance, you unlink Part 7 by turning off the KBD CTRL icon.
That Part will now be addressed via MIDI In on Channel 7, the other Parts will sound when you play the local keyboard while [COMMON] or any one of the KBD CTRL Parts is *selected*.

KBD CTRL linked Parts have the link in *common* so it follows when you are in a Performance Common area they will all sound together.
Parts not linked by KBD CTRL are *individuals*, and it follows that to play them you must either *select* them directly or transmit In on its specific correspondingly numbered MIDI Channel.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX
  3. # 14
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Thanks Bad Mister for the reply. In short, I understand that by deactivating the keyboard control, these parts work exactly the same as parts 9 to 16. Considering that although my controller has two zones, I do not get the zones to sound in layers, I see This is impossible to achieve while Yamaha does not update this MIDI feature to be able to choose the MIDI reception channel. I find no sense that something implanted in any professional keyboard for decades, Yamaha has decided not to do it this time. Hopefully rectify and listen to the clamor of all its users in the same way it has rectified with the sequencer theme.
Thank you very much!!
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX
  3. # 15
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Hi guys!

Thanks for all the good discussion and advices! Sorry how late I am to responce - got swamped with work ('tis the season) ?

Just to clarify, I am using Mainstage but wish to Simplify my setup and ditch the computer for some gigs...

Regarding using the sustain pedal for rotary - I used to have a Nord Stage 2 which allows usage of the sustain pedal both for sustain and rotary (but maybe That's just a Nord thing)

Anyways, MODX is my first Yamaha keyboard so I'm a complete newbie when it comes to how it works - so I drew a crude picture of what I basically would like to do..

Until now I have always had my main Controller on Midi Channel 1 and secondary keyboard on MIDI Channel 2, but whatever works ?

Maybe some of it is possible?

Thanks again for all the advice and discussion ✌️

Yamaha MODX8 sem controller.jpg
Attachments (1)
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX
  3. # 16
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Hi welcome back to your thread!

As we said in our first reply, you can do most anything... sometimes it requires being specific about what you wish to accomplish. You have mentioned four categories of sounds but we need to be even more specific... because you may have to “merge” Parts into a single Performance to create the instruments you require. Since these general categories appear to be describing Split keyboard situations, building the Performance that you need is the first step. And perhaps you’ve been splitting the keyboards because you have not considered other methods to recall the instrument you need.

I am going to assume, the MIDI Keyboard has no sound, and that all of the sound is coming from the MODX8.
You mention that it can transmit on a single MIDI channel. As you know the MODX can transmit to multiple (as many as 8) Parts simultaneously.
You can with the MIDI I/O Mode setting “Hybrid” flip the situation where your single channel MIDI Controller triggers as many as 8 Parts, while the MODX keys plays a single Part.

A single Part can easily house more than one instrument because it can have as many as 8 oscillators.

And before we can logistically satisfy your question, we need you to explore some of the other programming possibilities the Motion Control Synthesis Engine makes available. Strings and Brass split on the keyboard (as shown in your diagram) appear in separate regions of the keyboard.

The questions that arise are “how do you utilize this?”, and “what if they are layered across the keyboard with the option to play one, the other or both, via the Super Knob/Scene recall system?”

Ultimately, we want you to work this out on your own... reason: you’re the only one who knows what you require on stage and you want to be able to tweak it yourself.
We want you to recognize that layering sounds on the MODX does not mean they all are sounding... you can control *when* they sound.

You can have all four sounds in one Performance and recall what you require when you need it.

PARTS linked by “KBD CTRL” can be played together by either Key-bed.
PARTS that are not linked by the “KBD CTRL” icon can be played by selecting them directly, or by transmitting IN via MIDI on the appropriate Channel.

So again, we should begin by “merging” Parts into a Performance. You may or may not be able to combine the exact programs you need... but then again you might...

The piano and the organ on the same synth... are these regioned (split) on the Keyboard because you are playing them at the same time, or could these be layered across all keys with an option to switch seamlessly between them?

We must stress that only you will know what will work musically in your situation. And only you can know which physical set of keys you wish to play at anytime.

Question: why play both acoustic piano and organ from the same weighted action keybed?
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX
  3. # 17
  • Page :
  • 1


There are no replies made for this post yet.
Be one of the first to reply to this post!
2018 © Yamaha Corporation of America and Yamaha Corporation. All rights reserved.