YamahaSynth.com Forums

This is the place to talk about all things related to Yamaha Synthesizers!
  1. andries
  2. Sherlock Holmes
  3. reface
  4. Sunday, 18 November 2018
Hi All, I was wondering if anybody else has problems using a external midi keyboard with the reface cp. About 20% of the time i play a chord one of the notes does not sound. Like if I play a c major chord the e note wont sound. I have this problem on all the octaves available on the cp. Playing different chords also gives this problem. I notice notes dropping too when i play single note runs (any octave). This is very frustrating. I also own a reface yc and dx. When i hook up the external midi keyboard to those models i do not have this problem. This problem also does not occur when i use the reface cp with its own keyboard. Anybody have any idea what could be going wrong? Thanks An3z
Responses (9)
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
You’ve narrowed it down to the MIDI connection to the refaceCP... I’m sure you have tried swapping the MIDI Breakout adapter, but if not... focus your attention on a lose connection on the MIDI communication
  1. more than a month ago
  2. reface
  3. # 1
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I tried what you suggested but there was no improvement. I borrowed a different midi keyboard from a friend at that didnt give any problems so i guess its my midi keyboard thats the problem. I do still find it strange that the YC and DX dont give this problem. Thanks for your time anyway.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. reface
  3. # 2
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I tried what you suggested but there was no improvement. I borrowed a different midi keyboard from a friend at that didnt give any problems so i guess its my midi keyboard thats the problem. I do still find it strange that the YC and DX dont give this problem. Thanks for your time anyway.
? Okay I’m confused. How are you connected from your MIDI Keyboard to the refacCP?
Are you using a 5-pin MIDI cable and the reface Breakout cable? Yes/no?

Trying a different MIDI keyboard does NOT necessarily address whether it was the Breakout cable... did you use a different Breakout cable; If you did, that might be the reason your ‘different’ Keyboard is working... the issue is STILL down to a MIDI issue, try to eliminate possibilities. By simply replacing the Keyboard which fixed the problem, does not explain the YC and DX working no problem with your original keyboard.

Find a MIDI cable and breakout cable adapter that you are sure work, and use that to test each, in turn. The reface YC, DX then CP. If it works in two and not the third you’ll know something.

Focus on the cable, the adapters, and your MIDI keyboard, until all possibilities are exhausted. Hire Sherlock Holmes: he’d say something like, when you’ve eliminated all possibilities the solution will be all that remains.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. reface
  3. # 3
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I did what u recommended. I used the same midi cable and breakout cable and got the same results. Playing the YC and DX with my external midi keyboard gave no problems. Playing the CP did result in notes dropping every so often. I played extra hard too to be sure it wasnt a velocity sensitivity issue. Every time a note dropped I heard a clear thump of the key on my midi keyboard being hit but no sound coming out of the CP. Im stumped.
I tried the other keyboard i borrowed also, again with the same midi cable and breakout cable. I could not hear a note dropping.

Also an odd thing that happened: (my midi keyboard has a built in sequencer) I recorded a sequence live and a note dropped (on the cp) while i was recording. The note showed up on the sequencer pattern but would not sound on the cp even playing the sequence over and over (the other notes of the pattern did sound). I have no idea whats up with that. Thanks for the help though.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. reface
  3. # 4
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
What happens when you play the sequence back on the reface YC (since it also has 128 notes of polyphony, it should tell us something). Let us know, that’s strange.

Very curious.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. reface
  3. # 5
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I did not think to try that sequence on another reface. I deleted the sequence without realizing it relevance to my problem. I will try to replicate the situation tomorrow. I too am very curious what will happen. I will get back to you on this. No time left today.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. reface
  3. # 6
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I was able to replicate the sequencer situation several times with the same results each time: Note: I was playing hard not soft.

1. When a ''dropped'' note gets sequenced the velocity of that note shows up at a ''low'' setting on my sequencer. The dropped note is not sounded then.

2. The ''dropped'' note sounds loud and clear on my yc using the same sequence and the same cables.

3. If i increase the velocity of the ''dropped'' note on the sequencer then i do hear a note sounding from my cp.

4. If I reduce the velocity of the ''dropped'' note after step 3 back to ''low'' again then i do hear a note.

I guess I can conclude the problem is the midi keyboard? I tried this on a velocity sensitive synth i own with similar results. Every so often a ''dropped'' note occured which wasnt completely silent but was VERY quiet. If i increased the velocity and then decreased it again on the sequencer (steps 3 and 4) the note sounded at a normal ''low velocity'' volume.

On a related note: any chance of being able to change the velocity sensitivity of the cp in future firmware updates? As much as i like the sound of it, the cp is difficult to play regardless of which midi keyboard is used, because its so sensitive velocity-wise. Im guessing this is true to the original pianos the cp is emuating but as a synth it would nice to be able to tweak the velocity sensitivity so to speak.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. reface
  3. # 7
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Excellent methodology... you have eliminated all wildcards and have zeroed in on the issue.

The reason I had you connect to the refaceYC was not only because it is also 128 Note poly (so we could eliminate that as the issue) but also because it doesn’t respond to velocity sensitivity so therefore we could determine if the issue was velocity related... which it now clearly seems to be.

Most Velocity Curve settings are found on the controlling keyboard. Adjustable or selectable curves are typically found on the keyboard: Soft, Hard, Wide, and Fixed, are standard options found on many controllers.

The ability to offset the incoming velocity values is often found on synth tone generators but requires deeper editing capabilities. There maybe a possibility of such an upgrade for reface (that would be up to the engineers), but in the meantime you’ll want to invest in a controller that better matches the response of the CP... or has adjustments to the velocity curve it sends Out via MIDI.

MIDI Controllers can, typically, output all values 1 through 127, and let you select the curve weighting it towards light or heavy touch. If your Control Numbers report “low” instead of a specific number 1-127, it is likely it does not send Out all values - and below a certain level the output result is very quiet when routed to the CP.

I’m guessing it may be sending 3 or 4 velocities... which means instead of 127 steps all velocities 1-40 might be “low”, 41-90” might be “medium”, and 91-127 might be “hard”. While this might qualify as velocity sensitive, it would not result in as smooth a response as a device that could send all values, 1 through 127.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. reface
  3. # 8
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
All along i had issues with the velocity sensitivity of my external keyboard. It doesnt play smoothly (using your language) with the cp. Thanks for clearing that up for me!
  1. more than a month ago
  2. reface
  3. # 9
  • Page :
  • 1


There are no replies made for this post yet.
Be one of the first to reply to this post!