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  1. Jeroen
  2. Sherlock Holmes The Voice
  3. MONTAGE
  4. Saturday, 14 May 2016
I would like to play the Montage-piano (4 parts) on an external keyboard on just ONE midi channel.
And at the same time, I would like to play other sounds (internal and external) on the keyboard of the Montage.
I would like to use PART 9-12 for the Montage-piano, so I could spare PART 1-8 for other internal sounds and for external zone control.

Can this be done by setting the MIDI I/O on SINGLE and set the channel on 9?

Or will I also trigger other internal sounds when I do this?

Or applies MIDI I/O on SINGLE only to PART 1-8 and can you still use PART 9-16 individually from an external keyboard?
Responses (8)
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Thanks for the questions. I think many people are trying to approach this same thing... I will give you what I know, and try to address these concerns.

You are not quite understanding how the Montage works - which is understandable because you have not interacted with it. Your external controller (as yet unnamed) does not have the same capabilities as the Montage controlling itself. Opting to play it from an external controller could/can certainly be done, but you would still want to interact with the Motion Control Synthesis Engine via the compelling Montage controllers... (Designed to control this engine) even when playing just a simple piano sound. That said...

(I think we'll let you discover for yourself just how compelling playing the Montage using its own array of controls and controllers and how fundamental this is to getting the most out of playing the instrument. Sure you can "trigger" it from an external controller... But triggering its sound is only a small part of the experience. I'm trying to find an analogy that would impress upon you why doing this would not be a Montage owner's first choice, perhaps: triggering it from an external controller is like being fed intravenously- you get nourished but miss tasting the food! It is simply more fun, more engaging and fulfilling using the Montage's physical interface.

Parts 1-8 are those that can be set to what is called "KEYBOARD CONTROL" (local). The Montage does not use MIDI to trigger itself -so no MIDI channel setting is necessary for the Montage keyboard to trigger the Montage tone engine. Any of the first 8 Parts can be selected for Keyboard a Control.
Any Part not under Keyboard Control is available to be triggered when selected (if using the Montage keyboard). The Parts 9-16 can be played when coming IN via MIDI when you match the channel number to the Part slot.

Can this be done by setting the MIDI I/O on SINGLE and set the channel on 9?
No. Setting the Montage to MIDI I/O = Single is just as it says, the Montage will receive (In) and transmit (Out) on a single Midi channel, period.
Setting the Montage to MIDI I/O = Multi allows the Montage to receive (In) and transmit (Out) on multiple Midi channels. Simple enough.

If you place the MIDI I/O = Single sure, you could choose MIDI channel 9, or any channel. And that would place the entire Montage on a Single MIDI CHANNEL for both receive and transmit. You would use Parts 1-8 only to set up your Performance - your external controller can now transmit on ch 9 and trigger the current Montage Performance - same as when "Keyboard Control" local.

If you place the MIDI I/O = Multi, in order to play a Multi Part Montage Performance via Midi would require your external controller to transmit on multiple Midi channels. This is basic "how MIDI works" 101. Example, you place the "CFX Concert" piano so it occupies Parts 5, 6, 7 and 8 - to play this using the Montage's own keyboard you simply activate the KEYBOARD CONTROL icon on these Parts. If, however, you wish to play this from your external controller you would need to have a multi-zoned master keyboard controller set to transmit on channels 5, 6, 7 and 8 for it to trigger the four Parts of the CFX Concert piano. Make sense?

Take "Seattle Sections" -the full orchestra Performance made by assembling sections... 7 Parts:
Part 1 - 1st violins
Part 2 - 2nd violins
Part 3 - viola section
Part 4 - cello section
Part 5 - contra bass section
Part 6 - spicato articulation (full range)
Part 7 - solo violin / solo viola / solo cello

Playing this from an external controller that transmits on a single MIDI channel would give just one Part at a time (MIDI I/O = Multi)
Playing it from Master mode of a Motif XF, for example, (which can transmit on as many as 8 zones simultaneously) you could create a situation where you could play the full orchestra from a single external controller. You don't mention your external controller keyboard (hope it is as robust as the XF's Master mode) - when we say an XF Voice is one Part of Montage Performance that is literally true.

The Montage Multi Part Performances are best played from Montage! - which doesn't use MIDI to trigger itself.

If you set the Montage to be a Single tone engine via Midi, naturally, it is going to receive on just a single channel. Making sense? ... This is basic MIDI.

Again, you can place a "Multi Part - Single Instrument" program, like the "CFX Concert" OR "Seattle Sections" so that you can play it on a single Midi channel, and that can be any MIDI channel you choose. But then that's it, single means single.

Or applies MIDI I/O on SINGLE only to PART 1-8 and can you still use PART 9-16 individually from an external keyboard?
No. Single means single. If you wish to use multiple Parts via MIDI, as in Parts 9-16, first you have to be MIDI I/O MULTI, and if you want to trigger more than one, you need a Master Midi controller that sends multiple zones, on multiple channels.

We will reiterate: playing the Montage is an interactive experience that is best experienced by "playing" the Montage. Through MIDI you will be nourished but miss all the physical enjoyment of experiencing the flavors and nuance that comes with tasting the food.

That said, you could "play" a four Part Montage Performance using Montage (Keyboard Control), and simultaneously trigger Parts 5-16 as single channel entities. When playing Parts via MIDI it is highly recommended to use 9-16 and leave 1-8 for things you are going to actually "play" using Montage's set of physical attributes.

We appreciate where you (and others) are coming from with these hypothetical situation. These are based on your old workflow. Montage is not (IMHO) just another synth that you will use to replace your old synth, it will demand in many instances that you rethink how you want to accomplish what you need musically. We each will have to do this for ourselves... For example, you may decide that the role of both Brass and Strings is best handled simultaneously with a Montage Performance, where previously you used separate engines for these two things. It's things like that that Montage will force you to rethink.

Trying to pre-decide how Montage will work for you in a multi-keyboard rig is very difficult - and I'm going to go out on a limb and say it is almost impossible to know fully - until you assess what's on offer. It may/will change your mind about how to do things.

I hope the answers I provided will help you understand a bit better about what is and isn't possible. The Montage allows bigger sounds, it allows access to more variations by allowing the performer to alter which Element or Operator is active at any time within any of the Parts. To do this it is necessarily bigger than the one channel/one Part/one instrument mold. We are now playing across multiple Parts but using those multiple Parts to create a single instrument sound (on some of the Performances). Simple cc (Control Change) messages could not accomplish the amount of detail you can control here! Particularly across multiple Parts. The Super Knob is responsible for morphing the ensemble "sections" versus the solo violin/viola/cello in the "Seattle Sections" Performance - with the FC7 pedal plugged into Foot Controller 2 (Super Knob) allows your foot pedal to morph multiple parameters... This is compelling!

Playing Montage from the Montage keys, will often be a different thing from playing that same thing via an external controller (even a multi zoned external controller) ... Or at least that has been my experience.

Hope that helps.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 1
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I fully understand your point of view about playing the Montage from its own user inteface, which includes much more than just its keyboard, but I need a piano action type keyboard to play the piano *and* a synth type keyboard. I currently use a Roland RD-700 to play the piano and an EX5 on which I play everything else. If I buy a Montage it would be a Montage 7 to replace my EX5. I would keep my RD-700 and I would use it as a master keyboard to play the Montage pianos: the Yamaha Balanced Action 88 kb is a good kb, but I want to keep the graded action and the escape feeling of the PHA III kb of my RD, which I believe is closer to the real thing.

I also understand your point about rethinking one's workflow.

Maybe I'm missing something, but wouldn't it be easier if it was possible to set the MIDI channel for each part in a perf?
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 2
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Hi Bad Mister,

Thanks again for your comprehensive reply.

Ok, I'm convinced that I have to play the Montage 6 itself as much as possible! And I will :-) And I will enjoy :-)

But I have also have a stagepiano. And I am not the only one. There are many others (like EXer and Samuel and ...) who wants to buy a Montage 6 to replace their Motif XF6 (or other flexible keyboard).

My current 'stagepiano' is a Nord Stage 2 (76 HA). The Nord Stage 2 can only send on 2 midi-channels.

(Before I had a Yamaha CP4, and before that I had a Roland RD800. And before that I had a Yamaha Motif XF8 for a couple of years, but I found the XF8 to heavy to gig with. I am very happy with my light weight and compact Nord Stage 2)

@EXer
Yes, for the (wo)men with the stagepiano, it would be a lot easier if it was possible to set the MIDI channel for each part in a performance in the Montage!
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 3
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Jeroen wrote:
@EXer
Yes, for the (wo)men with the stagepiano, it would be a lot easier if it was possible to set the MIDI channel for each part in a performance in the Montage!

Of course it would! That was a rhetorical question...

Despite BM's rough claim ("You are not quite understanding how the Montage works - which is understandable because you have not interacted with it. Your external controller (as yet unnamed) does not have the same capabilities as the Montage controlling itself. ";) it does make sense to use a Montage as a tone generator in some cases.

And Yamaha should take this into account.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 4
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 5
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Perhaps the Stage Piano you get should transmit on more than just two MIDI channels. Really?! I have a little portable keyboard that transmits on any of sixteen channels. In fact, I don't own a keyboard that can't.

I offer that just to make you think - I'll certainly pass along your request, (although I'm quite sure the engineers understand the concept) as long as you also send the suggestion for sixteen transmit channels to the manufacturer of your stage piano :) deal?
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 6
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Hi Bad Mister,

Of course my piano can send on all 16 channels.
So I don't have to ask Nord to make that work.
But it can send at two midi-channels at the same time.

That's not a strange thing; I know there are piano's that can only send on 1 channel at the same time.
The CP4 does four I think and the RD800/RD700 does also four.

But when I want to play the Montage-piano from the stagepiano I will need to transmit on 4 different midi-channels at the same time. And when I want to layer that piano I'll need even more.

So yes, please ask your people if they can fix this limitation.

Thanks again
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 7
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
EXer wrote:

If I buy a Montage it would be a Montage 7 to replace my EX5.


I don't think you're going to like that decision.

I bought a Montage 8 to replace the Motif ES8, but the EX5 remains at the command center. The Montage does a good job replacing the Motif, but the EX5 has a lot going for it (as you know) that is just too useful, too easily. The sound is different too, even when compared with the ES8.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 8
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