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  1. Aaron
  2. MODX
  3. Thursday, 10 January 2019
After a bit of confusion on a previous post, I figured I should probably create a separate post to address my follow-up question.

For live performance I play the MODX and a Dave Smith Instruments Prophet Rev2. I'm looking for a controller that can allow me to change the presets for both simultaneously with a single press. Because of the way these keyboards handle MIDI, it's a little bit weird, and I need something that can fit the bill.

I need to step on a switch and have it send MSB 62 / LSB 0 / PC 1 on channel 1 and PC 1 on channel 2. The next time I hit the same switch, it should send MSB 62 / LSB 0 / PC 2 on channel 1 and PC 2 on channel 2. So forth and so on, with an increasing PC number with each press. I would also use a neighboring switch to do the exact opposite, send those messages with decreasing PC numbers. Hopefully there will be a third and forth switch that I can use for sustain for the two instruments.

Seems super simple to me, but it's proven to be quite a tall order if I add in that I really need it to be fairly compact. I've looked at the Source Audio Soleman and the Morningstar MC6, but am still unclear on whether or not either of those two can do exactly what I need. I sent e-mails with my questions to both companies, but have gotten no response. If anyone has experience with something that can handle that and isn't monstrously large, please let me know!

Sorry if that was confusing (or if I sound like an idiot), and please let me know if you need any more clarification. Thank you in advance for your help!
Responses (15)
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Hello Aron, I am trying to accomplish almost the exact same thing but wanting my Daw to make the change as a sequence moves along. If you hear of anything please let me know too. Thanks, Andy
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX
  3. # 1
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Hello Aron, I am trying to accomplish almost the exact same thing but wanting my Daw to make the change as a sequence moves along. If you hear of anything please let me know too. Thanks, Andy


Will do, though things aren't looking too promising at the moment.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX
  3. # 2
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I need to step on a switch and have it send MSB 62 / LSB 0 / PC 1 on channel 1 and PC 1 on channel 2. The next time I hit the same switch, it should send MSB 62 / LSB 0 / PC 2 on channel 1 and PC 2 on channel 2. So forth and so on, with an increasing PC number with each press!

I'm guessing that all the small MIDI change pedals can only send one MIDI command at a time, and you need two. One solution: Use a MIDI Thru box to simultaneously go out to both keyboards; and insert a MIDI Solutions Event Processor between the Thru box and the second keyboard. Program that to filter out the unwanted MSB/LSB commands, and to re-channelize the PC from channel 1 to channel 2. Another approach could be to use an iPhone/iPad to similarly take the single command from your footswitch and modify/reroute it to the two keyboards. (You may still need a Thru box, or a 2-port interface, to get the MIDI out to both keyboards.) I think MIDIflow is one app that can do this.

I am trying to accomplish almost the exact same thing but wanting my Daw to make the change as a sequence moves along.

This sounds very different, if you're not trying to make the changes manually in real time with a pedal. If you want the DAW to do it as it's playing a sequence, can't you just insert both program change into your sequence? Or am I not understanding what you're trying to do?
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX
  3. # 3
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I need to step on a switch and have it send MSB 62 / LSB 0 / PC 1 on channel 1 and PC 1 on channel 2. The next time I hit the same switch, it should send MSB 62 / LSB 0 / PC 2 on channel 1 and PC 2 on channel 2. So forth and so on, with an increasing PC number with each press!

I'm guessing that all the small MIDI change pedals can only send one MIDI command at a time, and you need two. One solution: Use a MIDI Thru box to simultaneously go out to both keyboards; and insert a MIDI Solutions Event Processor between the Thru box and the second keyboard. Program that to filter out the unwanted MSB/LSB commands, and to re-channelize the PC from channel 1 to channel 2. Another approach could be to use an iPhone/iPad to similarly take the single command from your footswitch and modify/reroute it to the two keyboards. (You may still need a Thru box, or a 2-port interface, to get the MIDI out to both keyboards.) I think MIDIflow is one app that can do this.


Thanks for the response! That does sound fairly reasonable, but I’m trying to avoid adding to my board without taking something away. I currently use a simple MIDI footswitch that only sends PC messages. Fine for the Prophet, not so much for the MODX.

I’m starting to think that going for one of those giant all-in-one solutions might be my only option. Any idea which ones could do those things (one switch to increase on both, another to decrease on both), and also be able to provide individual sustain switches for both boards and individual expression pedals for both boards?
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX
  3. # 4
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
We answered you in another thread... if you still think you need to reverse direction, and that is your only hang up, we ask you to consider that the reason there are 256 Live Set slots per active set list is specifically to avoid having to switch directions.

Say you need to return to the acoustic piano several times in a song... switching alternately to Strings, Brass and organ in between acoustic piano segments.
Piano - Strings - Piano - Brass - Piano - Organ - Piano.

That would be your set list order. Flatten out the order so that you can proceed in one direction....
When combining MODX with an external synth, I mentioned the advantage that you can treat that external synth with the same features and functions as if it were a MODX Part (perhaps the significance of that is not fully clear quite yet) but trust me, it’s a big deal!

Reversing direction could solve the problem, but that’s not an available option... so a linear list with more slots than you can use is proffered. Of course, there is the odd person that needs all 256 and requests more, but for most of us that’s enough slots for one set — in fact it is so many more than most people use, you’d have to think it is this way specifically to accommodate the one direction ADVANCE or RETREAT through the listing! Because you can’t reverse the direction this is the solution... enough slots so that repeats don’t upset the apple cart.

(If you do need more we can say 1) you’re underpaid and 2) get a second MODX... Back in the day, Keith Emerson was on stage with multiple MiniMoogs (because before Presets, that was the available solution). Don’t laugh! It’s why DJs have two platters to spin tunes, it’s the available solution when you need two songs playing at once.

From what I gather, (given the tools available), you need to just increment through your set.
Solution: A momentary (FC5) Type Foot Switch plugged into the Assignable Foot Switch jack;
FS ASSIGN = LIVE SET+

_ Place your Performances, in the order you need them, into a Live Set.
_ A “Performance” in this instance will *include* the Prophet as apart of the KBD CTRL MODX architecture! You will determine what program is recalled, what effects are applied, where it’s panned, how loud it is, whether or not it is sounding alone, layered or split with internal Parts. You can use the Super Knob to Control the parameters of the Part designated to communicate with the external device.
In each Live Set slot you select what you need to play. That means internally, externally, both, in whatever combination.
_ If you need a slot to recall just the MODX, you can have that Performance not address the slave
_ If you need a slot to recall just the slave, you can have that Performance not address the MODX.
_ If your external synth doesn’t do Bank Select, simply just send the Program Number from the Part slot designated for this device.

Again, because the audio Outputs of your external synth can be run through the MODX— you can treat it as if it was apart of the MODX! Try it out.

Final thoughts: there are external solutions that would allow to treat both devices, separately, as slave devices. You’d address each as necessary.

The MODX Zone Master feature will help you when you want to use what you already have to solve the problem. You never need to move backwards when each Live Set slot can recall exactly what you need. That’s how you should be thinking — literallyRemember, the external synth, in the scenario I’m recommending, becomes a MODX Part for all intents and purposes.

256 Live Set slots that you can advance through with a FS set to LIVE SET+
8 Sets of 256 Live Set slots in the User Bank.
That’s 2048 Live Set slots total in the User Bank.

...times 8 Libraries (each the equivalent of a User Bank)
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX
  3. # 5
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I’m starting to think that going for one of those giant all-in-one solutions might be my only option. Any idea which ones could do those things (one switch to increase on both, another to decrease on both), and also be able to provide individual sustain switches for both boards and individual expression pedals for both boards?

FCB1010 has two expression pedals, and ten switches which can function as sustain or Program Change, among other things. It might do what you want. There's also something called an Uno chip upgrade that adds more features. I don't know whether or not a single switch can be programmed to send two commands, maybe. If not, maybe you could try a brute force method... velcro a small, strong piece of wood across two adjacent switches, so that when you press down on the wood crossbar, both switches go down?

But I think Bad Mister has a good idea of having the pedal just change the performance on the MODX, and have each MODX Performance then also send out the necessary MIDI Program Change to your other board. This would also have the virtue of not requiring you to have the same patches in the same order on both boards. That is, you could re-order your set list (Live Set) on the MODX, and each entry would still call up the correct associated sound in your other board, even if they were no longer in sequential order.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX
  3. # 6
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
The FCB1010 can't address messages to multiple channels within the same preset on itself. Spent a great deal of time digging for that information. As far as the "never need to go back" option, that doesn't work for me. Putting everything in order seems reasonable, and I understand the point that Bad Mister is trying to make, but with my live performance group, there is a great deal of improv. A set order isn't always an option. Also, sometimes I need to go back and forth in quick succession to clear out the adjustments I made on a performance in the middle of a song. Running through the MODX is very cool option, but again, does not address exactly what I need to do. Hence why I'm looking for a MIDI solution that can make that happen.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX
  3. # 7
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
When there is a "great deal of improv" then you are on your own - but you know this. Things like Live Sets and Set Lists are for folks who know what they are going to do next (and there are a lot of folks who do). If you don't know what you are going to do next - you can stop looking for solutions, there are none - just know your instruments really, really, well and improv... Seems simple enough! Fits right in with your workflow. Improv!

Until they invent a controller that can read your mind you're just out of luck! lol!
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX
  3. # 8
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Making my way through the presets I create is simple enough, and a workflow I’ve become quite efficient at in every other synth I’ve used. I just need to be able to go through them in ascending and descending order. The fact that doing so is a nearly impossible task on a new keyboard that was released in 2018 is kind of mind-blowing to me.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX
  3. # 9
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I just need to be able to go through them in ascending and descending order. The fact that doing so is a nearly impossible task on a new keyboard that was released in 2018 is kind of mind-blowing to me.
I wasn't aware that it was a common feature. I'm pretty sure the Nord Stage has it, but I didn't think boards from Roland or Korg did it, for example. I also wonder, is it really that common a need to step backwards through your programs one at a time? If you only have to go back one (i.e. to be able to go back and forth between two sounds), instead of next/previous, maybe you could put all the Parts for both sounds into the same Performance, and use the SuperKnob pedal function to use a foot controller to switch "up" to your next sound and then back "down" to the previous...? (Assuming that the total number of Parts for the two sounds does not exceed 8.) Though we're moving away from your two-board scenario here, and just talking about being able to back and forth within the one board.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX
  3. # 10
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I think I have an ideascale request to enable the footswitch to do more than one thing. Long holds or double taps to decode to different operations. Maybe a normal tap is advance and long hold is previous. Or double tap previous, regular single tap as next, and long hold as back to 1st live set (back to top).

If you have lots of improv - you're unlikely to have a ton of specific Performances. More likely to have a smaller collection of "meat and potatoes" Performances . In which case going up and down a small set of Performances (because you reuse Performances often). I can see the value of going up and down to "chase" the right Performance down. Personally - for me - it would be "easier" to use the Live Set touchscreen and touch one out of 16 boxes. As much as I hate using the touchscreen live - I do use the Live Set grid on the touchscreen.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX
  3. # 11
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
If you have lots of improv - you're unlikely to have a ton of specific Performances. More likely to have a smaller collection of "meat and potatoes" Performances . In which case going up and down a small set of Performances (because you reuse Performances often). I can see the value of going up and down to "chase" the right Performance down.

I don't see much value in that, actually. If you're going to have to step through multiple Performances to get to the one you need, that means you can't be playing anything at the time (or else the notes you play would be sounding the various sounds between the Performance you're starting on and the one you're trying to get to). In that case, you might as well use the sustain pedal to hold the currently held keys if need be, and then use a hand to get immediately to the next sound you're looking for. Where's the need to use a foot switch if your hands aren't busy playing? And you'd get to your next sound more quickly with a single screen tap than by having to tap the footswitch five times or whatever, to get to a sound that was that far back.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX
  3. # 12
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
@Scott

The OP needs to fill in the details of the hows and whys. I was going to be more specific in an example - but run the risk of going against the grain of the OP. How the pedal is going to be used exactly for up and down could use more detail.

I'm in the camp where I wouldn't use the foot pedal this way - so I get your feedback. But there's space for other ways to use the instrument.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX
  3. # 13
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
The MIDI Expression I/O Pedal might present another solution... you can plug up to three foot switches into it, it has 5-pin DIN MIDI Out, and you can program each switch for ay of these functions:
Control Change (CC)
Program Change (PC)
Note On / Off
CC INC / DEC
PC INC / DEC
Dual CC
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX
  3. # 14
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
The MIDI Expression I/O Pedal might present another solution... you can plug up to three foot switches into it, it has 5-pin DIN MIDI Out, and you can program each switch for any of these functions:
Control Change (CC)
Program Change (PC)
Note On / Off
CC INC / DEC
PC INC / DEC
Dual CC
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX
  3. # 15
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