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  1. David
  2. MODX Series Synthesizers
  3. Thursday, 12 August 2021
Hello,

I am currently for the first time trying to set up my MODx to control some of my hardware synths. I have set up zones and mapped some CC messages successfully. I have run into two things that I can't figure out.

1. Is the highest CC value you can use to control 95? Looks like that is the super know CC and lights up in yellow when hit, but I also can't go past it. Many of the CC commands I would like to control have cc values of 100+. Are those just not programable options with the MODx?

2. Also many of the options I would like to control don't have a CC number but are listed in midi implementation charts but as NRPN. Can the MODx control these also? I attached a screen shot of an example for the hydrasynth.


Thanks in advance.
Attachments (1)
Responses (7)
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
If you use plugin mode for remote control - you can assign CC numbers for controls (knobs, buttons, etc) and these can be greater than 99.

https://youtu.be/ulbjLvqkkis?t=974

Notice the example shows controllers set to CC numbers 103 and 105 (among others).

The MIDI implementation chart doesn't show RPN transmitted (shows X). I do not believe there are any generic to send (N)RPN address/data bytes in a user friendly manner. You may need to have a computer or dedicated device translate simple CC messages to the 4 address/data pairs needed for NRPN. Such things exist.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX Series Synthesizers
  3. # 1
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Thanks, i will take a look. I am trying to avoid running through a computer and seeing what i can manage directly from the MODx. I understand I won't be able to do everything, but now I should be able to access more functions using remote control. I had thought about that before, but don't I lose a lot of functionality of the MODx when in remote mode?

Also I think I know the answer to this one but I would like to confirm. When setting up individual performances for each hardware synth I can only assign cc to the common settings correct. Like cc24 to assign knob 1 for filter cutoff of external. On another performance I set cc30 to assign knob 1 because that is filter cc for another synth. If I merge those two into a performance, assign knob 1 will only have one "common value" and if I click on an external part they will both receive that same CC from knob 1 even though the 2 individual parts have different CC assigned to knob one.

I believe this to be the case as I have setup a couple of tests and it seems like you can't have two seperate midi cc maps for the same performance. If I am wrong that would be great because I could drop in a hardware synth into any performance and when i click on its individual part to control it I will know all of the assigns for that part. If we can't do this, that means we really have to pick and choose which CC values to assign for multipart external gear and each layout will be different. Since we have to click on individual parts to control CC for 1 piece of external gear at a time anyways, it would be great if you could have individual mappings for each part.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX Series Synthesizers
  3. # 2
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
If you can live with lower CC numbers below 100 then you can save single-Part setups with controllers set to CC values that match your external gear with Part-Zone. Enable Zone Master and then you can add the single Part into any slot. Since outgoing MIDI channel can be assigned - you can save that into the Zoned Part.

You don't have to limit yourself to "common" CCs - just the range is limited unless you use the DAW Remote feature which allows for more arbitrary CC assignments.

The downside of DAW Remote would be loss of (some) controls for internal features. You'll have to decide which option works best for you.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX Series Synthesizers
  3. # 3
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I am currently for the first time trying to set up my MODx to control some of my hardware synths. I have set up zones and mapped some CC messages successfully. I have run into two things that I can't figure out.

1. Is the highest CC value you can use to control 95? Looks like that is the super know CC and lights up in yellow when hit, but I also can't go past it. Many of the CC commands I would like to control have cc values of 100+. Are those just not programable options with the MODx?
Yes, the highest CC# available to assign to the MODX physical controllers is 95 (this includes DAW REMOTE as well). When you see the selection light up in yellow (with an exclamation mark) that is to warn you of a conflict. Your selection will be overridden by the item already assigned to that CC#. It is a warning that should tell you — please, make a different selection. The physical controllers are designed to control the specific internal engine of the MODX hardware. The CC# is what is SENT Out via MIDI — and/or what CC# will control whatever duty it has been given internally when that CC# is received. it is nothing more

2. Also many of the options I would like to control don't have a CC number but are listed in midi implementation charts but as NRPN. Can the MODx control these also? I attached a screen shot of an example for the hydrasynth.
The MODX does not do NRPNs… typically found on synth devices that cannot store their own settings… the sound on each channel defaults to a nominal condition, and NRPNs are used to edit the instrument by offsetting from the reset condition. NRPNs are commonly found on General MIDI modules, that reset to a default condition, and all custom edits are handled by these NRPN offsets. These can easily be written into the GM Setup Measure, just after their GM RESET and just prior to the start of the music data.

The MODX has the type of internal memory that allows you to store, directly, every edit to every Part. NRPNs are not necessary and are not recognized, at all, by the MODX. An example of how they are used would be the tuning of a snare drum within a drum Kit — in a GM module you would use a certain set of NRPNs to designate which Drum Key, and how much to offset the original tuning. On the MODX you simply navigate to the snare Drum Key and tune it directly… the data is stored in the Performance Part. The MODX has enough memory for you to store an entirely new drum Kit each time you select one for use in your Performance.
Generally speaking, editing via NRPNs is so much data it is best handled in a sequencer (not in the snapshot memory of a Zone slot). If you truly need to address your external hardware with NRPNs you can use your favorite DAW to write it out, then export it as a MIDI File and then you can send it from a Sequence associated with your Performance.


General Hints:
Because the prime directive for MODX controllers is to control MODX, it is wise to use the Zone Master function whenever you are going to be controlling external hardware devices Out via MIDI. This allows you direct the slot specifically for the external hardware.

Avoid any situation where you are transmitting to your external hardware on a Part slot designed for an internal Part.
Always transmit to your external hardware from a Part (Zone) slot prepared exclusively for your external hardware.

Naturally your physical controllers will send a specific CC message consistently from a single Performance — as defined in the Performance Common “Control” > “Control Number”. The MODX Tone Engine is influenced by those assignable controller directly — the CC# that you use refers only to what is SENT via MIDI when the controller is physically engaged. In your situation, changing the CC# sent will have no influence on what the internal engine does (it does not address itself with MIDI CC unless Local is Off and signal is echoed back).

Make a Performance for each external hardware synth… Name that Performance the name of the hardware. Then within that Performance you can store a Part/Zone slot for each instrument you use with that external device. They will all share the same hardware profile.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX Series Synthesizers
  3. # 4
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Thanks Jason,

Two things.

1. FYI, Even in VST mode you are limited to max CC destination #95, The higher numbers you were seeing are the actual values that go up to 127, when you click on the edit page is the VST where you assign the CC destinations it still maxes out at 95. Not sure why Yamaha choose this, I am assuming there must be a reason since every synth I have has CC destinations higher than 100.

2. I don't think I was clear enough in my explanation of the "common" settings. So what you described to do above is what I have already done for multiple synths and saved each as an individual performance. Each of those performances has their own CC mapping according to the synth it controls. That is working fine. The problem is if you add two of those "ext synth" parts to the same performance you can only have one cc mapping because the only place you can map is on the main performance edit menu "common/audio" area. You can't assign midi cc on the individual parts of the performance and if you want to control 2+ synths then they need to become performance parts. This is a bit strange since midi mapping can only be used if you click on individual performance anyways. Using the knobs or faders on the performance level does nothing with regards to CC, only if you click on a individual part in that performance, and then you have to use the same midi CC map for the performance but applied to each part on its own. It would be much better if you could save those midi mappings at the part level and not the performance level. This would give so much more control. Maybe something to look at for future firmware.

Another improvement for future firmware would be to allow the "performance" midi map to actually be used at the performance level and have an off/on option for the parts if you want that cc data sent to that midi channel. Then you could at least use that midi map across separate parts without having to click on each part individually to control them. This way you could let's say control the filters of two hardware synths using two knobs at the same time. As is, you have to click the individual part and then use one knob for its filter and then click on the second part and use a different knob for its filter. If you had the same CC for filter on different synths you could use the same knob, but none of my many synths use the same CC values for just about anything other than pitch bend and mod wheel.

Thanks again for your help. Using a dawless hardware setup with 14 synths connected to jam live on, I am used to limitations. MODx is still my favorite out of all of them.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX Series Synthesizers
  3. # 5
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Thanks Bad Mister. I am sure I will have some more questions as I get deeper into this setup. I try to figure things out first via manual, forum, and youtube before asking here.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX Series Synthesizers
  3. # 6
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
If you cannot assign high CCs then you'd have to map assignable CCs through a translator with something between.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX Series Synthesizers
  3. # 7
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