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  1. Jason
  2. Sherlock Holmes The Voice
  3. Site Feedback
  4. Wednesday, 12 May 2021
This post is making it through - so how can the login be broken? Let me explain the rundown.

Although not simple/seamless/elegant - I have been, up until my last login maybe a week ago, able to login if I stood on one foot and held my nose. I was using Opera and I was able to login and post messages.

Specifically, in order to post I had to:

1) Press the "Sign In" button in the upper-right
2) Fill out my credentials
3) The screen would return back to the original screen with the "Sign In" button in the upper-right (not the "My Account" "Sign Out" buttons that show I'm logged in.
4) I would press the "Sign In" button a 2nd time. This caused the screen to show the "My Account" "Sign Out" buttons showing I was logged in. There would be no redirection to another page.
5) Usually I was reading a message I wanted to reply to when I logged in. Even still at this step - there was no text box for me to reply. Next I would have to refresh (F5 or other means) the page. After the refresh - the same page (without redirection) would show but now have a box allowing for my reply.

Today, using Opera at step 5, the site would redirect me to the main page (http://www.yamahasynth.com) and also remove the "My Account" "Sign Out" buttons and replace with "Sign In". I couldn't ever complete the sign-in process.

I tried Chrome and this did not work either.

I checked the security settings/cookie settings of both browsers. Added exceptions to allow everything for yamahasynth.com (AND all 3rd party sites). I tried clearing cookies/data. None of this resolved the situation.

In short, I lost my mojo.

The only resolution I could find was to switch to Firefox. That seems to work. It's a good thing there are so many browsers because each web-based Yamaha feature needs a different one to work. Yes, tongue-in-cheek -- but this really needs to be better for an audience of varied technical experience. I'm not sure how many end users can navigate these waters without jumping ship.
Responses (4)
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Fun isn't it! Wonder how long it'll be before the only way to reply is to do an HTTP POST manually with curl and a hand-crafted Cookie: header?

Watching the tumbleweed blow around this site makes me feel nostalgic for the Motifator community that developed under Keyfax's stewardship during the Motif era. Although different product generations have their positives and negatives, the Montage and derivatives are great (and deep) synths with so much to explore. Motifator was one of the big strengths of Motif; the lack of a comparable user- and third-party-developer driven community for the Montage generation is a real missed opportunity.

When I had questions or wrote software connected to Motif, I posted to Motifator and got interesting discussion both publicly and off-list. And conversely, I got loads out of other people's topics, reading about everyone else's music, projects, libraries for sale, interesting programming questions/tips, etc. It was fun, well-worth catching up every day, very much the same feel as newgroups and mailing lists in the 1990s. I'm sure I'm not alone in having purchased a lot of third-party content off the back of recommendations, discussions and demos on Motifator too.

Somehow these things feel off-topic for this forum as they are neither a complaint nor a 'how do I...' support question. I know Motifator is still there, but much of the community drifted away when Motif was discontinued. Montage was distinctly off-topic there for reasons I don't fully understand — some kind of falling out between Keyfax and Yamaha? There are other forums but lacking critical mass. There are Facebook groups with quite a few members but long-form discussion never really happens or works on FB. There's great YouTube content from various people, some good written tutorials from Yamaha guys (which your web team regularly try to erase from the web in the weekly link reshuffle), the Behind The Synth podcast series, etc. but without a community tying it together it's fragmented and hard to discover.

I still enjoy playing and programming the Montage just as I did with the Motifs, perhaps more so given how flexible FM-X and motion-sequencing are. I also still have fun writing tools and documentation, but I miss having any kind of community to share it with and don't bother with anything beyond my own immediate needs. It's not quite the same emailing a handful of old friends with a GitHub link.

I wonder if it's too late for any real Montage community to take off now? I hope not, but it's been half a decade...
  1. more than a month ago
  2. Site Feedback
  3. # 1
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation

The way this log in works is different than other sites. For some people it has been difficult and we are aware of this. We are trying very hard to optimize this vital piece of the forum community and apologize for the frustration it causes. Over the past few weeks we've been trying to fix the issues on yamahasynth, from log in issues to broken links. We can only ask for your patience a bit longer as we try to figure this out. In the meantime, I ask that you try a different browser. I currently am using FireFox when logging into the Forum and as you can see, I'm in and posting.

Again, apologies and we'll do our best to fix this log in issue.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. Site Feedback
  3. # 2
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
In Chrome I can sign in if I disable "SameSite by default cookies" via chrome://flags/#same-site-by-default-cookies
  1. more than a month ago
  2. Site Feedback
  3. # 3
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
In Opera and Chrome - confirmed that disabling "same-site-by-default-cookes" which is the default for chrome-based browsers now works around the issue.

Since early this year, Chrome made a change to how this feature defaults and there is other discussion about taking away command-line switches that enable it (since it's enabled by default). That we have to disable this is difficult given I do not think there's a configuration setting to do so. Only advanced flags which your typical user isn't going to be able to find.

I do see that since the problem-report: things have gotten better (even in the default "enabled" same-site-by-default-cookies state). Now I do not have to login twice -- the first login "sticks". That's good. Now it's a matter of dealing with a change in the browser defaults and dealing with how the backend works in the new environment for the latest version of Chrome past the change.

The image hosting site I normally use isn't working - so here's an attachment of the parameter in its "works for the forum" setting ...

One problem with the site not working with defaults is that if a user ever runs into issues with their browser (not just here, any given site) - a step may be for them to reset the browser to stock/default settings. If those settings don't work for any given website (like they currently do not for this forum) - then that will be a problem.
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  1. more than a month ago
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