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  1. David
  2. The Voice
  3. MOTIFXF
  4. Tuesday, 01 March 2016
Hi all (BM, are you out there?)

I am doing a fly-in gig this weekend and they will have a backlined XF7 for me. I'll bring my flash memory board and a USB with all/without samples file. I'm not sure I remember the exact steps to load my file into the backlined board when I arrive. Can anyone advise (BM, I pray you are out there? :))

I did this once a year ago (why I no longer remember). It worked fine but I recall I first got an odd message when I put my flash board into the XF and first powered it on - something to the effect "new flash board installed" or "needs to install:" or something? I can't recall exactly. I pressed cancel, not sure if I should have. Have you seen that message I speak of? If I see it again, I'll take a photo and post when I get home.

Appreciate any help???
Responses (13)
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Be sure you take your ALL data file that has "all of your data", that is the file that includes your samples. Yes, you will Load it "without samples" but a wise person said "be prepared"... By traveling with your complete archive backup file, if the worse thing happens, you are not with recourse. 'Worse thing' would your data on the FL Board is somehow corrupted (I've never heard of this happening, but why risk anything... Take your full data file!)

When you put your Flash Board into the backline Motif XF, and then power up, go to [UTILITY] > [F6] FLASH, you will see the FL board has data on it by the Size/Memory used statistic, but the Waveform List will be blank. Thus the warning:

"New Flash Memory Module. Please load waveform data."
This message appears when the Flash Memory Expansion Module (FL512M/FL1024M) which was installed in your MOTIF XF has been installed to a new MOTIF XF. If this message appears, you should connect your USB storage device to the current MOTIF XF, then load the Waveform data. This occurs because the Sample without the parameter settings cannot produce the proper sound.

You do not need to load samples (the big data) after all it is already installed to the Flash Board, you only need to populate this backline Motif XF with your Waveform data (the small data that organizes your samples that "knows" where the samples are on your Flash Board.

When you go to load your ALL data file your flash load option, for example, will be to restore "FL1 > FL1 without sample"
By designating the destination as the board "without sample" the backline unit will restore your Voices, and populate the Waveform list of this new unit.

Make sense? Enjoy your trip, travel safe!
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MOTIFXF
  3. # 1
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Thanks BM - you are the rock we all climb on to see into the horizon! A mountain, you are!

I did a "test" last night per my memory (before I saw this):

1. mount USB stick

2. File -> Save -> I saved an All file, "FL1 without samples". I gave it a name. It created a ~2Mb file (indicating wav data not in file - good so far!)

3. Changed a couple program settings (Utility Tune, overwrote one Performance) just so I could verify the reload.

4. File -> Load -> Load file (scrolled to file) - FL1 -> FL1 without sample, FL2 -> FL2 without sample"
(forgive if I get exact terms incorrect)

Pressed Enter, am I sure, yes, .... off we go

XF first displays a message to the effect "Loading Flash Data" with the spinning circle (in process notification). This scared me as I didnt think I want to load flash data! Reading your input, I guess that is normal? After maybe 30 sec(?) the message goes away and it proceeds to load the All file. Total time is maybe 1 minute, 2 minutes max.

- I checked flash content in utilities, it shows its almost full, there's a list of wav's but I don't bother to scroll through them all - it seems "intact"
- I check a few voices that I know use flash-stored wavs, such as a piano library. they play fine.

but that message scared me, I guess it shouldnt, its expected?

I can rerun the test tonight and capture more exact notes if needed? I think I am good, but I will save an ALL File with all wav data as well.
I also have Melas tools (librarian, wav editor), not sure if that has any use/utility to an emergency
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MOTIFXF
  3. # 2
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
IFF the flashboard became corrupted, and I was fortuitous to listen to advice and have a full backup, what do I do?
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MOTIFXF
  3. # 3
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Has anyone referenced an importance to the OS version of the backline compared to the saved info from your board's OS ?
I would be inclined to find another last USB drive having it loaded on it.... to perform first in the sequence, matching the two versions.
Then after checking the OS for matching, be sure to do a Factory Reset which would remove all 'clutter' before installing my stuff.
My Two Pennies :)

YAMAHA DOWNLOADS
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MOTIFXF
  3. # 4
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
gig report. Fly in Fri, wait all day for the backline co to show up Sat with the gear including the specified XF7. I go down into the venue club at 5:15 and look up on the stage and uh-oh. Dude brought an XS7.

Two options, he can go get an XF8 or I can spend a few hours trying to program my set on the XS. I don't have that many samples on my FL card, but I do have a couple that I use over and over (such as a JP Saw from Inspiration that is a "go-to" for a ton of my basic JP synth patches) and I do have some songs that took alot of time to program - trying to program all of the voices in XS and then constructing Performances - i would have had to go fast and "cheap" on my precision to sounds.

so I decided lets get the XF8 instead and i'll deal with the piano weighted action. He went and got it, back at 7pm, and I load without issue. i run thru my songs quick to be sure I know where to play all the splits, its all good. Show went off, crowd loved it. Sound guy talked to me and said man, those keys really sound awesome - so full and crisp! (i think uh yeah, i spent tens and twenty's of hours fine dialing all of the voices, splits, layers, etc to exactly get what I wanted for my sound). but I said wow, thanks man thats so cool of you to say. talked a lil about the breadth of sonic ability the XF brings to the party, he walked out a big fan of Yammy boards.

The downside was it didn't feel great at all playing piano keys on alot of the synth songs. crowd couldn't tell but I could feel and hear a slight dropoff in performance in spots, Its just a slower heavier keybed than a semi-weighted, and I don't play a real piano very often to keep in touch with that feel. especially on some fast chopping chord songs like Runaway. oh well, thats rock n roll, crowd dug it.

So a big Thanks BADMISTER as always for coming to the rescue!

but that raises the obvious next question thinking to the future. This isn't the first time a backline co said they could provide an XS7 but not the XF:

Q: Can I create a file from my XF I could load into XS? My voices are spread from User 1 to User 4 (if not preset) but I could move User voices to U1 - U3 that I need. Performances (what I actually play) are all in User 1.

- if I had a file with only the User Voices I need for the set and ONLY the FL samples associated with those sets, I'm 100% sure it would fit in the 128 User Memory, I don't know how I'd create a file that only saves the samples/wavs I use in just those voices though?

- I don't know if I use any presets that are in XF but not XS??? I could sort that out ahead of time if need be, could I compare a list of presets in XS data spec to XF and find the different ones?

Any thoughts, ideas, advice? Could this even be a possibility?

I have Melas tools - I use for XF but don't know if they are different for XS. Anyone know if I could use that to do this?
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MOTIFXF
  3. # 5
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Q: Can I create a file from my XF I could load into XS? My voices are spread from User 1 to User 4 (if not preset) but I could move User voices to U1 - U3 that I need. Performances (what I actually play) are all in User 1.
While the Motif XF (2010) can convert and load Motif XS (2007) data, the opposite is not the case. The XF has a "lookup table" that allows it to translate the XS data. The reverse is not true, back in 2007 they had no idea about what would be developed in 2010.

You should contact John Melas to ask if his program works the opposite way, but there would be missing data going from a newer product back in time. I say that you should contact him because I don't know all the tricks in his software.

When specifying a synth from backline always specify the XF if that is what you have data for... Any other product will have you reprogramming on the road - and that is precisely what you want to avoid. It's your instrument, make them realize the exact model needs to be provided. It's like medicine - 'close' and 'sounds like' are not things you want to hear.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MOTIFXF
  3. # 6
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Thanks BM. I hear ya on backline specs. Was disappointed in we were specific on XF7 not any other model. They confirmed in writing and then showed up with an XS7. Debates about responsibility become academic when there's a gig in 2 hrs! But what happens more often is we will ask for an XF7, and they reply "we don't have that, but we have an XS7". Right now I would then just bring my own keys. this XS contingency was a curiosity to see if I could use an XS.. I shudder at the thought of having to try to program an entire set in an hour or two before a live show!. I had that option, I chose to play on the XF8. Physical feel was completely off for me, but at least I was confidant in my stellar XF sounds.

Another option would be an MOXF8 (I can't use a 6 without reprogramming, my splits eat up the breadth of m XF7 on many songs)

----------

Re; Melas - I got input saying "yes" from John earlier today (its below). Still several questions though

- Will his editor remap shared waveforms from XF to XS or do I need to manually re-point?
- Can his WF Editor copy preset waveforms that are only in XF to a User waveform, or will it only transfer User Waveforms.
- if I solve these and can create the XS file, will it tell me how large expansion memory I need to have in XS to load all?

I'll report back for those curious as I learn. I have XS-XF waveform translation tables from a fellow Motif expert that Id's which waveforms are not carried over from XS (attached if anyone has a use), I haven't analyzed my voices to see how many use XF-unique WFs. I suspect I can switch out the XF unique ones with comparable enough waveforms in the XS preset library or on my FL board. more work but could make it happen.

or, ... is it possible to copy a preset XF waveform to a User waveform.

---------
(from John)

Absolutely the Motif Waveform Editor can translate Voices and Waveforms from XF to XS.

Steps are:

Open Waveform Editor
Open your XF file (File -> Open)
Create a new XS file (File -> New Motif XS All File)
Copy the Voices/Wavefoms you want from the XF file to the new XS file using Copy/Paste.
-- Drag and drop also works! Please note that when you copy Voices, the Waveforms that
they are using are copied automatically!
Save the XS All File to a USB stick!
Load to Motif XS using the USB stick!

-------------

Parallel track I'm developing a V-rig in Mainstage but thats a new foreign language to me, I already speak "Motif" after four years of stumbling and bumbling (with your expert assistance many many times!). Perhaps you want to ... ok, you're busy with Yamaha. I get it :)
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MOTIFXF
  3. # 7
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Thanks BM. I hear ya on backline specs. Was disappointed in we were specific on XF7 not any other model. They confirmed in writing and then showed up with an XS7. Debates about responsibility become academic when there's a gig in 2 hrs! But what happens more often is we will ask for an XF7, and they reply "we don't have that, but we have an XS7". Right now I would then just bring my own keys. this XS contingency was a curiosity to see if I could use an XS.. I shudder at the thought of having to try to program an entire set in an hour or two before a live show!. I had that option, I chose to play on the XF8. Physical feel was completely off for me, but at least I was confidant in my stellar XF sounds.

Another option would be an MOXF8 (I can't use a 6 without reprogramming, my splits eat up the breadth of m XF7 on many songs)

----------

Re; Melas - I got input saying "yes" from John earlier today (its below). Still several questions though

- Will his editor remap shared waveforms from XF to XS or do I need to manually re-point?
- Can his WF Editor copy preset waveforms that are only in XF to a User waveform, or will it only transfer User Waveforms.
- if I solve these and can create the XS file, will it tell me how large expansion memory I need to have in XS to load all?

I'll report back for those curious as I learn. I have XS-XF waveform translation tables from a fellow Motif expert that Id's which waveforms are not carried over from XS (attached if anyone has a use), I haven't analyzed my voices to see how many use XF-unique WFs. I suspect I can switch out the XF unique ones with comparable enough waveforms in the XS preset library or on my FL board. more work but could make it happen.

or, ... is it possible to copy a preset XF waveform to a User waveform.

---------
(from John)

Absolutely the Motif Waveform Editor can translate Voices and Waveforms from XF to XS.

Steps are:

Open Waveform Editor
Open your XF file (File -> Open)
Create a new XS file (File -> New Motif XS All File)
Copy the Voices/Wavefoms you want from the XF file to the new XS file using Copy/Paste.
-- Drag and drop also works! Please note that when you copy Voices, the Waveforms that
they are using are copied automatically!
Save the XS All File to a USB stick!
Load to Motif XS using the USB stick!

-------------

Parallel track I'm developing a V-rig in Mainstage but thats a new foreign language to me, I already speak "Motif" after four years of stumbling and bumbling (with your expert assistance many many times!). Perhaps you want to ... ok, you're busy with Yamaha. I get it :)
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MOTIFXF
  3. # 8
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Thanks BM. I hear ya on backline specs. Was disappointed in we were specific on XF7 not any other model. They confirmed in writing and then showed up with an XS7. Debates about responsibility become academic when there's a gig in 2 hrs! But what happens more often is we will ask for an XF7, and they reply "we don't have that, but we have an XS7". Right now I would then just bring my own keys. this XS contingency was a curiosity to see if I could use an XS.. I shudder at the thought of having to try to program an entire set in an hour or two before a live show!. I had that option, I chose to play on the XF8. Physical feel was completely off for me, but at least I was confidant in my stellar XF sounds.

Another option would be an MOXF8 (I can't use a 6 without reprogramming, my splits eat up the breadth of m XF7 on many songs)

----------

Re; Melas - I got input saying "yes" from John earlier today (its below). Still several questions though

- Will his editor remap shared waveforms from XF to XS or do I need to manually re-point?
- Can his WF Editor copy preset waveforms that are only in XF to a User waveform, or will it only transfer User Waveforms.
- if I solve these and can create the XS file, will it tell me how large expansion memory I need to have in XS to load all?

I'll report back for those curious as I learn. I have XS-XF waveform translation tables from a fellow Motif expert that Id's which waveforms are not carried over from XS (I tried to attach but file format is not supported), I haven't analyzed my voices to see how many use XF-unique WFs. I suspect I can switch out the XF unique ones with comparable enough waveforms in the XS preset library or on my FL board. more work but could make it happen.

or, ... is it possible to copy a preset XF waveform to a User waveform.

---------
(from John)

Absolutely the Motif Waveform Editor can translate Voices and Waveforms from XF to XS.

Steps are:

Open Waveform Editor
Open your XF file (File -> Open)
Create a new XS file (File -> New Motif XS All File)
Copy the Voices/Wavefoms you want from the XF file to the new XS file using Copy/Paste.
-- Drag and drop also works! Please note that when you copy Voices, the Waveforms that
they are using are copied automatically!
Save the XS All File to a USB stick!
Load to Motif XS using the USB stick!

-------------

Parallel track I'm developing a V-rig in Mainstage but thats a new foreign language to me, I already speak "Motif" after four years of stumbling and bumbling (with your expert assistance many many times!). Perhaps you want to ... ok, you're busy with Yamaha. I get it :)
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MOTIFXF
  3. # 9
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Thanks for the follow up.

I hear you about playing the weighted 88 keys if your used to the synth action. (I prefer a XF7 myself; it's all personal preference). One tip I can offer when you encounter an 88 weighted action XF, change the Velocity Curve to "soft" - takes the edge off :)
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MOTIFXF
  3. # 10
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I read/"know" alot of piano or jazz players that can't stand the insufficient "feel" of semi-weighted bed. I disagree 100%, and its all just horses for courses. the XF8 felt like a perfectly lovely piano, but I don't play piano - I play synth in a rock band :). for me the XF7 has the perfect balance between an uninspiring "synth" action (what I played in the 80s) and fully weighted mechanical weighted bed (eg the piano i played as a kid). Thanks for the tip. I tend to modify the velocity curves in my Performances based on this different playing style (vs a tactile piano). if I can get a Note On message, I'm good 90% of the time.

A bit more discussion with John ...

1. YES - his waveform editor will automatically "backwards" map the XF waveform to the XS equivalent (if it exists in both). BUT ...

2. No, since preset waveforms aren't saved in an ALL file, his waveform editor cannot magically create them
3. If a Voice uses an XF waveform not in XS, the XF->XS mapping in his editor defaults to 000 (silence). (he thinks)

which preserves the value of last academic question
- can a user copy an XF Preset Waveform into XF memory and thereby save as a User WF? if yes - how?
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MOTIFXF
  3. # 11
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
- can a user copy an XF Preset Waveform into XF memory and thereby save as a User WF? if yes - how?
Not possible.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MOTIFXF
  3. # 12
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
thanks for the follow-up, Phil. much appreciate your constant support.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MOTIFXF
  3. # 13
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