YamahaSynth.com Forums

This is the place to talk about all things related to Yamaha Synthesizers!
  1. Jaron
  2. MODX
  3. Thursday, 13 December 2018
Has anyone had an issue with loose keys on the Modx8 or any other prior Yamaha synths for that matter? I have an issue that's seems highly unlikely to be coincidental but via google search, I don't see anyone else complaining of the same issue. I recently upgraded from an moxf8. After about 4 months of use on the moxf8 the Bb3 became very loose. It still played the note but made an annoying clunking noise when depressed. Also it would occasionally strike the note at full velocity even when slightly depressed. Now after less than 2 weeks of use on the modx8....SAME exact issue on the Same exact Key! Unbelievable! I can't imagine this is an issue with the way I play. I don't pound on the keys and even if I did, what is up with that particular key?? From the feel of it, The keybeds on both seems pretty much identical so I'm wondering if its an issue with that particular model keybed. I'm hard pressed to believe that no one else has had this issue...
Responses (18)
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
You are not the only one. I have the same issue with several keys. Also over at yamahamusicians.com several people have reported the issue. Although for me it is the clonk when depressing and not the full velocity retrigger. I am going to send mine in for repair.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX
  3. # 1
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Thanks for the reply Stefan. I went over to yamahamusicians.com and apparently yes, this seems to be a common issue. Unfortunately I was just one of the unlucky ones
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX
  3. # 2
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Broken keys are not that common, but can happen with any action, on any keyboard. There are different issues in play here, a note that comes on at full volume when struck with force that should not warrant that response, is likely a broken mechanism in the keyboard. A key that is making a clunking noise could be caused by any number of things (items fall between the keys, padding or other items inside the keyboard have come loose or have shifted). These types of things can happen in normal use.

This particular action, GHS (Graded Hammer Standard) is one of the most sold actions in the world — literally, hundreds of thousands of them in the field right now. Definitely, take your Keyboard in and have it serviced by an authorized service center... they will be able to analyze what the cause was and will be able to fix it. Of course, no one abuses their keyboard on purpose, but with any 88 note product, this can happen... they get banged around, stored upside down in cases, banged into door jams, etc., etc., (never on purpose, mind you) and not always because of the weight, but because even when lightweight, like MODX8, it’s because of they can be cumbersome, due to the length, when moving.

It is normal even for screws to become loose over time, particularly those underneath the keyboard. You should check them — this applies to any 88 Note weighted action Keyboard... This is due to the sheer pounding the keys take in normal use. The bottom of the keyboard is fighting constantly against the player exerting downward pressure applied to the keybed and simple gravity at work... because of the length there is a small amount of twisting (torque) when the keyboard is lifted, this will also work to loosen things over time, as well.

It is a precision musical instrument. Yamaha wants you to be happy with it, so take it to the service center...
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX
  3. # 3
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Thanks for your answer BM. I now checked the screws, found nothing loose. I suspect that some damping stuff has shifted. Anyway, I sent it to the service center today. Hope it is not taking too long - but for the meantime I still have my Montage.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX
  3. # 4
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Good ole reliable keybeds of the past are long gone.

I have a Nord Stage 3 76 HP which has keybed problems and now looks like my MODX8 is going to problems as well.

Seems like product quality is crappy across all manufacturers ....

Just saying ....
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX
  3. # 5
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I actually also had issues with the keybed on the Nord 76 key HP keyboard a while ago. Two of the keys failed completely :(
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX
  3. # 6
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation

Good ole reliable keybeds of the past are long gone.

I have a Nord Stage 3 76 HP which has keybed problems and now looks like my MODX8 is going to problems as well.

Seems like product quality is crappy across all manufacturers ....

Just saying ..
Actually, given the number of keyboards in the marketplace, the failure rate is actually very, very low. Keyboardists are percussionist (in every sense of the word) if it happens often to you, sdm, it might be you! (Just saying)...

Recommended: get a louder sound system.... then turn up!!!
Monitor yourself playing using the convenient Velocity Range Function on your MODX...
Here’s how: on the HOME/View screen, move the cursor down to highlight the RANGE area for Velocity.
VeloRange.png
Now when you trigger a key you see how it registers 1-127 on the blue grid. The blue area represents the Range area for the selected PART. Vertically (Velocity) and Horizontally (Note Range).
If you see that you are reaching 127 (too easily) on a consistent basis, turn your sound system up LOUDER and adjust your overall Velocity Curve to HARD. [UTILITY] > "Settings" > "Sound" > Velocity Curve

Many think I’m kidding when I say this, but I’m very serious. 127 is the maximum for these electronic devices. Turning up will make you adjust your internal velocity/effort. You naturally play harder when you cannot hear yourself well enough. Think about this... maximum effort should be required to reach 127. If you can reach 127 without using shoulder and forearm, your Velocity Curve is improperly set and/or you are playing in a sound system that is not meeting your needs. (that's what broken keys are telling you, as well).

And making your sound system louder will allow you to hear yourself with less physical effort... if you are one that breaks keys often on all your keyboards (you have to allow for the fact that, quite possibly it could be YOU and your approach to playing your instrument. Don't change the way you play - adjust the conditions to accommodate your style... There is nothing wrong with being "heavy-handed" - Unless you don't admit it to yourself! Don't change how you play... simply know how to adjust for it.

When playing a piano sound, it should be as loud, if not louder than an acoustic piano in the room. When playing in a band, you shouldn’t reach 127 easily... it should take a good amount of effort... if all your playing smacks the 127 limit all the time, you’re a candidate for the repair shop on a regular basis.

Knowing where 127 is — is very important when playing any electronic keyboard from any manufacturer. Efforts that seek results beyond 127, are meaningless and will eventually break keys (that's not rocket science). There is never a reason to hit the keyboard with an effort that would exceed 127 (obviously, there is no benefit, whatsoever). Finding out exactly how much effort it takes to get there and matching that to the maximum Volume you achieve, can be the difference between breaking all your keyboards and never breaking a key.

It's something electronic drummers (those that can overcome this) learn early on... Learn to adjust the pads and their sound module so that their maximum effort (that is, the effort they will use when they really want to smack that drum) reaches 127 and not beyond that. There is no reward for exceeding 127 (there is only an eventual penalty: that involves repairs).

And yes, there are literally, hundreds of thousands of GHS actions currently in the field. When you are at your Authorized Service Center - ask about the service record... sure there are some that break, but it is not an epidemic. Well within something you can handle yourself with some of the suggestions above. Again, do not change how you play, that is NOT what I'm saying, adjust the factors that influence how you play. LOUD is a good (in this instance).

Yes, far more people NEVER break keys, than break them... just FYI.
Those folks that break keys seem to always break their keys... just some food for thought.
Attachments (1)
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX
  3. # 7
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
And is it possible to have globally softer Velocity Curve than SOFT ?
Now I have it SOFT and is still very very difiucult to me reach 127. And in order to hear samples at high velocities I have to strike the keys very heavily. It is too dificult to me and maybe it harms the keyboard or the keybed is wear out quickly.


MODX8 here, one month old barely, the same problem with keybed.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX
  3. # 8
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I had about 10 synthesizer keyboards over the last 35 years. In one (the Nord) I had 2 failing keys which were actually in the higher range which I did not play that much. The MODX works like a charm only the clanky sound is annoying. So nothing is really broken, it is just too loud. So that does not really make for a bad series, I would say. Actually I am mostly playing on the synth action keyboards so I do not have that much force in my hands, I play more on the softer side. I have real difficulty reaching 127 on the MODX at all... I guess it should be able to cope with that.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX
  3. # 9
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Stefan, in my case is the same clanky sound and it is too loud for me also. For sure it is not broken.
I have impression that with time is more clanky or just some keys are more clanky then the others.
I do not know but maybe softer velocity curve could help.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX
  3. # 10
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation

Good ole reliable keybeds of the past are long gone.

I have a Nord Stage 3 76 HP which has keybed problems and now looks like my MODX8 is going to problems as well.

Seems like product quality is crappy across all manufacturers ....

Just saying ..
Actually, given the number of keyboards in the marketplace, the failure rate is actually very, very low. Keyboardists are percussionist (in every sense of the word) if it happens often to you, sdm, it might be you! (Just saying)...

Recommended: get a louder sound system.... then turn up!!!
Monitor yourself playing using the convenient Velocity Range Function on your MODX...
Here’s how: on the HOME/View screen, move the cursor down to highlight the RANGE area for Velocity.
[attachment]VeloRange.png[/attachment]
Now when you trigger a key you see how it registers 1-127 on the blue grid. The blue area represents the Range area for the selected PART. Vertically (Velocity) and Horizontally (Note Range).
If you see that you are reaching 127 (too easily) on a consistent basis, turn your sound system up LOUDER and adjust your overall Velocity Curve to HARD. [UTILITY] > "Settings" > "Sound" > Velocity Curve

Many think I’m kidding when I say this, but I’m very serious. 127 is the maximum for these electronic devices. Turning up will make you adjust your internal velocity/effort. You naturally play harder when you cannot hear yourself well enough. Think about this... maximum effort should be required to reach 127. If you can reach 127 without using shoulder and forearm, your Velocity Curve is improperly set and/or you are playing in a sound system that is not meeting your needs. (that's what broken keys are telling you, as well).

And making your sound system louder will allow you to hear yourself with less physical effort... if you are one that breaks keys often on all your keyboards (you have to allow for the fact that, quite possibly it could be YOU and your approach to playing your instrument. Don't change the way you play - adjust the conditions to accommodate your style... There is nothing wrong with being "heavy-handed" - Unless you don't admit it to yourself! Don't change how you play... simply know how to adjust for it.

When playing a piano sound, it should be as loud, if not louder than an acoustic piano in the room. When playing in a band, you shouldn’t reach 127 easily... it should take a good amount of effort... if all your playing smacks the 127 limit all the time, you’re a candidate for the repair shop on a regular basis.

Knowing where 127 is — is very important when playing any electronic keyboard from any manufacturer. Efforts that seek results beyond 127, are meaningless and will eventually break keys (that's not rocket science). There is never a reason to hit the keyboard with an effort that would exceed 127 (obviously, there is no benefit, whatsoever). Finding out exactly how much effort it takes to get there and matching that to the maximum Volume you achieve, can be the difference between breaking all your keyboards and never breaking a key.

It's something electronic drummers (those that can overcome this) learn early on... Learn to adjust the pads and their sound module so that their maximum effort (that is, the effort they will use when they really want to smack that drum) reaches 127 and not beyond that. There is no reward for exceeding 127 (there is only an eventual penalty: that involves repairs).

And yes, there are literally, hundreds of thousands of GHS actions currently in the field. When you are at your Authorized Service Center - ask about the service record... sure there are some that break, but it is not an epidemic. Well within something you can handle yourself with some of the suggestions above. Again, do not change how you play, that is NOT what I'm saying, adjust the factors that influence how you play. LOUD is a good (in this instance).

Yes, far more people NEVER break keys, than break them... just FYI.
Those folks that break keys seem to always break their keys... just some food for thought.



I've had several synths in the past...Before I got the MOXF8, I had the Roland Juno DS and the FA08. I don't play any differently in terms of how i'm striking the keys between now and then. I had both of those synths longer than the MOXF8 and MODX8 and I never had an issue with loose or broken keys. In fact, I've I actually struck some of the other keys considerably harder than I normally do and I couldn't replicate the issue. Strange enough the issue both times was with the same exact key. Its definitely not my intent to bash Yamaha because I would still take the MODX8 over my prior keyboards, but it definitely sounds like a quality control issue in manufacturing. The dealer I purchased from did agree to exchange mine for a brand new one.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX
  3. # 11
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I bought a MOXF8 in 2015 and played very rarely like once in 2 weeks etc..

The other day I got a clunking key issue on middle Gb key.. I called local service center and they say MOXF is not a high end model and you knew it was .. and from his experience he said you probably pay $500 for a repair ... because that is how MOXF was designed (YOU HAVE TO REPLACE ALL KEYS) ..... He even said people with MOXF ordinarily do not choose to repair'em because they knew how expensive it would be .. that is, just live with broken keys poor people with money just afford to buy MOXF not Motif..

I felt like a total idiot who just chose Yamaha in the first place ...

so irresponsible... Yamaha is actually a charlatan.
There are so many purchasers with same issues, but they claims it's just low failure rate... Calling it "you're just unfortunate to choose a trash... "
this is just a scam by a big conglomerate.... a shame..

it feels like a bait where after purchasing it ... I paid $1,900 for it and with every broken key going forward I have to pay $500 every time ...

20 years ago I owned a Roland and there was no issues with any physical keys for over 10 years

how ridiculous, this is how Yamaha plays in the market ripping off in the market ...
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX
  3. # 12
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Yes I am having issues with my MODX8 after only 2 months of home use. Several keys are very loud but with most if the keys in the middle octaves having problems. I don't know how this GHS keybed works but it sounds and feels like there is weighting inside the plastic keys and it is becoming unstuck from the key housing.

I have asked if this can be fixed on the modx forum but although mr bad mister has commented of other posts he has deemed it unimportant to comment on mine. I also note that all his answer here and elsewhere seem to be passing the buck and pointing blame eslewhere other than the product itself. Well I just tried his velocity test as detailed above and most of my playing is under the half way line. Even at my heaviest hit of a bass note I never got to 127! So hitting too hard is NOT an explanation as to why 75% of my keyboard is faulty now and seems to be getting worse.

I will of course take this back to the dealer and the dealer will fix or replace. My concern though is that a fix will not stay fixed or that a new unit will have the same issue.

I have only just started to research this issue but am finding it has been known about for a long time. My unit was new in july 2019 so this is plenty of time for yamaha to have come up with a fix if they were going to. My question now is if I don't feel confident with a fix do I send it back for full refund or buy the 7/6 version and connect it to a good quality weighted controller. I believe the new firmware will help with the latter.

I am thinking of demonstrating this on youtube to see if others have had it fixed and it stayed working. I would have preferred yamaha to have helped me on the forum rather than me go to the youtube trouble but hey ho it is what it is. I guess when companies know they have a DUD product on their hands they try to keep it quiet.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX
  3. # 13
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
So I've owned my MODX8 for a year now. I'ts actually my second one. My first one had clanky keys from the beginning. Multiple ones. so, they allowed me to trade. At my local Guitar Center, they allowed me to unbox one and take it to their practice rooms so that I could have a quiet spot to listen to the keys. GHS keys in general don't feel nearly as good as the flagship beds I've had in the past with my S90 and my Motif XS8. Those are incredible but also more than twice the price. I never expected to have that kind of feel or quality with the MODX8 keys. Saying that, they are just terrible. A year in, the keys I most use in the middle of the bed are terribly loud upon depression. But it's only the white keys. They are not broken. It is just a terrible design flaw. I bought the two year warranty package from Guitar Center. I can go in and replace it again if I want to, but it's gonna have the same problem. I love Yamaha, so this is just a travesty. An unnecessary shortcut was taken somewhere with these keybeds. I have to literally wear headphones or turn up my speakers crazy loud to avoid it. Is there anyone out there at this point that doesn't have this issue with the MODX8? Is there hope if I go and replace it . . . again?
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX
  3. # 14
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
wow that's not good to hear! The thing is it not just the noise. It does affect playability. The keys do not play the same on the 2nd depress because of the inertia. This is bad. I wish I never bought it now. To be honest a dealer did tell me there were problems and that is why he didnt stock it but I thought it was just an excuse to sell me something else. In fact it seem like he was being honest!
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX
  3. # 15
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I am also a Yamaha keyboard owner. Have had a AN1X, a Motif XS6 and a Yamaha GENOS. Yamaha FSX keybed (top of the range) is very reliable, but noneless, on a MONTAGE6 I had to test in my house for 2 weeks, one key was faulty, making a stange "clack" noise when depressed. Yamaha representative (in Portugal) replaced the inner rubber mechanism but the issue was not solved. Anyway this was the only issue I have had with Yamaha keyboards.

In reality you only get top materials and top build quality in the top of the range Yamaha keyboards: MOTIF, CP73/88, MONTAGE and GENOS. But they come with a price tag, naturally. That doesn't mean when you pay 1100 euros for a MODX6 or 1400 for a MODX8 you have to settle with a much inferior instrument. After all 1400 euros is already a lot of money (more than I earn in my job!). But there must mandatorily exist a significative difference to the top of the line instruments, of course.

In my experience every time I needed a repair on a Yamaha keyboard, within warranty, it has been addressed promptly by Yamaha. Yes, I have had Roland keyboards also (RD-2000, JP-8000, D-20), and it is true that these - keybed wise - have been more reliable than Yamaha's keyboards. But we are talking of two major Japanese brands and these guys have the responsability in themselves to keep honest in their business. That is usually the Japanese way of doing things.

So to all that are having trouble with the MODX8 keybed I recommend to send the keyboards back for repair - EVERY - time you have an issue. EVEN if it takes 4 or 5 times for Yamaha to solve the issue. After all costumers pay for that when they literally "buy" warranty for their instruments. Beyond warranty that is another story.

Bashing Yamaha online, ostensibly, for a faulty MODX8 keybed shows unecessary disrespect for the brand (which I do nor represent, by the way), and won't solve any problem.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX
  3. # 16
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I dont see any of this thread as bashing. I see it as genuine yamaha customers getting a bad deal. My other thread and its original version just asked yamaha the simple question 'if I get it fixed will it stay fixed'. No reply from them. If they treated customers with respect customers are more likely to respect back. Japan-based or not there seems no sense of honor when the main spokesman here deflects all issue and blames the 'Heavy handed?' customer.

And bottom of the range or not....these things are not consumables they should have a shelf life of more that 2 months. It is ridiculous to suggest that just because they are not flagship that it's acceptable to put out products not fit for purpose. I am a domestic customer who has the MODX 8 setup in a lounge for occasional playing. Jeez what would it be like if I actually relied on it for my living!
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX
  3. # 17
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Not exactly the same topic but related... I was experimenting on my MODX7 and found that it's really difficult to get a velocity higher than 122 or so on it. I have my velocity curve set to Soft since I'm no pianist, but I find even when I really hit the keys hard it's rare to get over 122. Maybe it's the design of the keybed or the internal scaling, but it's almost like the keys don't want to go any "faster"... I've hit 127 if I really try, but then I'm not playing... just trying to hit a velocity.

I don't remember having that problem on the Motif XS6 I had years ago, but that was ages ago, and it had a higher-end keybed anyway. I wonder how the Montage compares in terms of velocity response.

I have 2 other (non Yamaha) keyboard synths with velocity, but I would have to connect them to a computer to see what velocities they're sending, so I don't know if they are similarly curved at this point.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MODX
  3. # 18
  • Page :
  • 1


There are no replies made for this post yet.
Be one of the first to reply to this post!
2018 © Yamaha Corporation of America and Yamaha Corporation. All rights reserved.