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  1. Tyron
  2. Sherlock Holmes The Voice
  3. MONTAGE
  4. Saturday, 27 August 2016
Hello BM (and anyone else who can help),

I have come to terms that using the Montage as my main audio device does not work in my current studio set up and so would like to set up the Montage via USB to run within Cubase 8.5 pro as almost stand alone synth.

I have changed my Sound card details going to Device Setup, VST audio systems and selecting my sound-card (RME UCX). When I press a key on the Montage the data is being received on my RME device and also in Cubase however I am getting not sound.

I am sure its a routing issue i.e. I need to create some USB audio midi channels to stream the data from the Montage but I don't know how to set this up.

Are there any screen shot tutorials that demonstrate the best way to get this working?

There are probably a lot of variables/ parameters that need to be checked and configured which I think a screen shot tutorial will articulate

Thanks very much
Responses (8)
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I have changed my Sound card details going to Device Setup, VST audio systems and selecting my sound-card (RME UCX). When I press a key on the Montage the data is being received on my RME device and also in Cubase however I am getting not sound.
It's not as complicated as it seems. If you do not wish to use the Montage as your audio interface, you do not have to. All you need to do is select the device you wish to use in the appropriate place. Which is what you have done. That's it, done.

The Yamaha Steinberg USB driver has a separate MIDI component that (naturally) is independent of the audio component. The MIDI component is unaffected by the ASIO settings.
By selecting the ASIO driver for your RME you have done all that is necessary to not use the Montage as your audio interface.

You can still be connected to the computer via USB if you can spare the port.
If not, then you can connect the Montage via the standard 5-pin IN/OUT ports of your external device, as is always the case, whether USB-MIDI or standard MIDI, you will need to communicate to the Montage via an active MIDI Track set to the In/Out ports of the external MIDI interface... The MIDI track will need to "thru" the data back to the Montage, for MIDI to trigger the Montage (assuming LOCAL CONTROL is OFF).

The main L/R outputs of the Montage must be connected to two available inputs on your audio interface, in order to be monitored. All monitoring decisions are made at the audio interface. It is responsible for all signal going to the computer, and all signals going to your sound system.

Make sense?
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 1
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Thanks I'm up to you as far as 'You can still be connected to the computer via USB if you can spare the port'

So my problem is that even though I have selected my audio interface as the RME on the appropriate menu I am unable to get sounds from the Montage over USB. I can see that Cubase is receiving Midi information from the Montage (via USB) as is also the RME (Midi lights flicker when note is pressed)

My understanding was that I could still send Montage audio / midi information over the USB connect even when not using the Montage as the audio interface.

So my question was is there something that i may need to change in my Cubase / Montage set up.

I thought that might be the case and so went to utility --> Audio I/O --> Audio I/O Mode and changed to '4 Stereo / 44.1 - 192kHz as I thought that the 16 out mode was only to be selected when using Montage as your audio interface. I selected the 4 stereo option.

I rebooted the Montage as promoted and also Cubase. However the Montage is only acting as a midi controller since I have removed audio interface duties from it.

Can you advise how I set up the Montage internal routing so that I can use it is the master keyboard in my studio set up (It is doing this already) but also assign a midi / audio channel so that I can play and record the Montage's internal libraries in my compositions.

You mention analog outs in the reply above but its not quite what i am after unless I can't send audio and midi data over usb on the Montage.

Thanks
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 2
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
My understanding was that I could still send Montage audio / midi information over the USB connect even when not using the Montage as the audio interface.
No. If you are not using the Montage as your audio interface you CANNOT pass audio via USB to a computer.

So my question was is there something that i may need to change in my Cubase / Montage set up.

I thought that might be the case and so went to utility --> Audio I/O --> Audio I/O Mode and changed to '4 Stereo / 44.1 - 192kHz as I thought that the 16 out mode was only to be selected when using Montage as your audio interface. I selected the 4 stereo option.
Sorry, no, you don't get to select any other audio output format, other than the analog 1/4" jacks which you MUST connect to your audio interface.

You mention analog outs in the reply above but its not quite what i am after unless I can't send audio and midi data over usb on the Montage.
You opted to use a different audio interface. Not sure why and you don't say, but you seem totally misinformed as to what that means. It means your RME is responsible for getting Audio into and out of the computer. Means you must connect your audio devices (including Montage) to it.

The Montage USB connection can still do MIDI, but you opted not to use it as your audio interface, therefore the Montage analog outputs are what you must use. You still have not mentioned what type of computer you are using but since you did mention Cubase Pro 8.5 we assume it is a PC or a Mac.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 3
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Thanks BM,

Well you are right, I am totally uninformed as to the Montage and its capabilities as there are some modern functionality that I expected and have taken for granted.

I am shocked to learn that if you are not using the Montage as your audio interface (bearing in mind it just does not have enough physical connections to integrate into a project studio) that you cannot send audio over USB allowing for greater digital integration into a studio set up. I have been enjoying this feature on the Access Virus for years and many other synth manufactures offer a similar option. Will this (certainly from my perspective) limitation be addressed in any future updates?

The reason why I don’t want to use the Montage as my main audio interface is because I have a lot of outboard hardware that I can’t connect and integrate with the Montage as there are not enough physical inputs and outputs. Having easy access to this external gear when I am composing is like an extra string to the bow and speeds up work flow. So that’s the main reason as to why I would rather revert back to my original RME audio interface. I have x2 Eventide units, Hardware compressor / EQ / Pre amps / Analog Synths / External drum machines etc. I like to have hardware effects on seperate channels and send audio between units for complex textures/ rhythms when sound designing.

I am using a purpose built PC audio workstation with 32Gb of RAM, Intel i7 Six Core 5820k 3.3Ghz Processor with all audio duties handled by the RME UCX.

So currently the Montage is unable to stream audio over USB when not being used as an audio interface. Perhaps I now see the point of the Pure Analog Circuitry as ‘we don’t have many physical outputs but the few we do will sound great’. It’s not the worst thing in the world but definitely something a potential buyer should be aware of. I personally think the PAC sounds great.

Because I have chosen not to use the Montage as my audio interface I wonder if that will have any impact on the soon to be released Yamaha Montage software editor i.e. will certain editing parameters be unavailable etc. I guess what I am trying to say is will I be able to edit my performance as deeply as if I was using the Montage as my audio interface (additional channels aside).

I appreciate your help

Thanks
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 4
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Because I have chosen not to use the Montage as my audio interface I wonder if that will have any impact on the soon to be released Yamaha Montage software editor i.e. will certain editing parameters be unavailable etc. I guess what I am trying to say is will I be able to edit my performance as deeply as if I was using the Montage as my audio interface (additional channels aside).
Again, you seem to be misinformed. There is no "soon to be released Yamaha Montage software editor" ??? Not that I'm aware of...

If you are referring to the soon to be release "Yamaha Montage Connect" utility, this is not an editor. It is a tool to allow direct MIDI communication between the Montage and the connected computer _ it has no audio component and is strictly a MIDI communication utility at this point.
_ you can Store/Recall Montage setups used per Project on your computer DAW
_ you can import Montage Songs directly from the Montage's internal Song folder via USB
_ you can manage via bulk dumps, individual Performances... MediaBay > Sound Browser.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 5
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I do seem to be uniformed about the Montage and I’ll explain a few reasons why.

I assumed that since the Montage was also marketed as a modern synthesizer it would not be out of the realms of possibilities for a VST software editor to be launched with or shortly after the Montage’s release.

The Yamaha marketing people have done a stellar job on painting the machine as being a real asset to electronic music producers. Yes it has great Pianos and Strings but what of sound design? Why does the company not demonstrate the best way to harness the power?

Currently the Montage is difficult to program for. There does not seem to be a in depth user guide recording

There is a Magazine called Sound on Sound and is regarded as a music publication that readers can trust. They generally have field experts who review software and hardware in depth evaluating the manufacturer’s claims and real world implications. In short they give honest reviews of the pros and cons. A good review from the Sound on Sound guys is a sure fire way to increase sales which I would have thought would have been particularly attractive to the Money men at Yamaha. A poor review from them would likely send sales the opposite way. So can I ask why such a major reviewer has been neglected to be issued with a demo copy when the Montage has been available for purchase since May? Could there be an argument made that if the Montage in its current incarnation was reviewed by respected peoples of the industry (Sound on Sound) and not simple consumers who can easily be brow beaten by jargon or Yamaha affiliated reviewers then the obvious short comings of the unit would be examined.

Yes I feel uninformed about the Montage and its uses. Yes I feel that as a synth manufacturer Yamaha have got this one horribly wrong and they are playing damage limitation with the product now. It has some really cutting edge technology that is locked behind a touch screen and jog wheel. You see the DAW connectivity is alluded to as a main feature of the Montage as per below. The text below is from the Yamaha website (http://usa.yamaha.com/products/music-production/synthesizers/montage/#tab=feature) under ‘’USB Audio/Midi connection’’

‘’Connect MONTAGE to your computer with a single USB cable and capture every nuance of your creativity into your DAW. MONTAGE’s powerful USB driver can send 16 and receive 3 channels of STEREO 24 bit/44.1 kHz digital audio to/from your computer or iOS device (MONTAGE is class compliant, no driver needed!), no other hardware required! ‘’

You see the part which says ‘no other hardware required’ some may argue that is quite an ambiguous statement because what it is actually referring to is using the Montage as your primary audio interface. Obviously you are a Yamaha spokes persons and likely would not agree but to the laymen / consumer it is no real indication that the Montage needs to be your primary audio device when attaching it via USB. I think a far more transparent campaign would have mentioned that the Montage needs to be your primary audio device in order to use the USB audio functionality. But hey, its business I guess.

The website also mentions ‘complex sound design’ using the FMX and AWM2 sound engines. There are not very many examples of such sounds on the internet certainly I have not come across any that are NOT linked to Yamaha artists. This might suggest that there are difficulties with actually programming the hardware via the input mediums at present. For me (as a user) it is quite obvious that this is the problem because it is a pain do to so. Here we are in 2016, we have a hardware synth that markets its DAW connectivity where we can send 16 and receive 3 channels of STEREO 24 bit/44.1 kHz using USB connectivity, yet the manufacturers do not see a VST to open up the sound design element as a priority. So it’s clear that Yamaha see this product as being heavily integrated within a computer and so much so they have dropped legacy workflows such as a sequencer and arp design, citing the argument that this can now be done directly in the DAW. So forgive me asI was thinking that like the Motif before and considering challenges of programing with a Jog wheel and touchscreen Yamaha would strive to release a VST editor which could be used on the PC / Laptop to make programing it easier and best done inside the DAW. If programing were easier that would be helpful.

To learn that I had obviously been getting ahead of myself in terms of practicality regarding what Yamaha Montage Connect will do via midi was disappointing (because I thought it was a VST sound design editor) but pleasing at the same time because it brings some much needed functionality between the DAW and Montage.
‘’you can Store/Recall Montage setups used per Project on your computer DAW
_ you can import Montage Songs directly from the Montage's internal Song folder via USB
_ you can manage via bulk dumps, individual Performances... MediaBay > Sound Browser’’

It is what it is with the Montage and yes admittedly I am not as well informed about the Montage functionality as I would like but here we are months after its release with.

No real YouTube tutorials.
No examples of unique sound design (from non-Yamaha affiliates)
Yamaha’s actual website being very economical with its wording so as to reduce the emphasis of the Montage’s need to be your primary audio device
The fact the Montage seems to have been reviewed only by Yamaha affiliated publications
The less than detailed user manual

Forgive my ignorance BM, I’m just trying to work with what I have been given.

Long live the Montage for it has the hardware power to be a legend!!
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 6
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Yes, I too felt I was somewhat misled by the marketing material making no mention of the fact that you must choose the Montage as your audio interface if you want to use the digital audio streaming over USB functionality.

Tyron is right: this is woefully behind the times. The Access Virus TI line has been doing this successfully for many, many years now. I'm gutted that I have to use only the two stereo pairs of analog audio out! The digital out was a major, major selling point for me, and I just assumed that surely, in 2016-2018 there would be no way a major synth manufacturer would advertise something like this without mentioning this critically important caveat.

How wrong I was.

Yamaha... I'll be blunt: you need to fix this. This is not OK. Not in 2018.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 7
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Since Yamaha Montage MIDI (USB) is class-compliant, if you remove the Yamaha Steinberg USB driver - can you not communicate via. USB MIDI to/from Montage using standard drivers? I had thought there was some discussion about this. You lose the ability to use Montage Connect and USB audio - but it may work for what your purposes are.

That said - the RME supports MIDI I/O using a breakout cable. So you should use the breakout cable to connect Montage using the 5-pin DIN to RME so RME becomes the central "hub" for everything.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 8
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