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  1. Gabi
  2. Sherlock Holmes The Voice
  3. MONTAGE
  4. Tuesday, 28 August 2018
I´m just wondering why the guitar performance presets are not turned to arp hold by default. guitars don´t sound like that, they don´t just stop in the middle of an arp when changing chords - you need hold or it sounds totally unnatural. rather silly to have to go into several guitar parts and set them to hold one by one to make them sound at all like a guitar. why did Yamaha program it this way?
Responses (8)
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
There are never any good answers to “How come...” questions. The thing to note is that you have a choice. Make the selection as you require for what *you* are doing. And remember to allow for someone to have a different preference for how they would like to use the guitars... and the Arpeggios.

If you like the Arp to default to Arp HOLD = ON with a specific Arp Type that you like, create it and STORE it that way in your User Bank. You can even mark it as a Favorite so that when you search for and recall it, it comes up exactly as Gabi would like it to be recalled!

Just as an example of different applications of rhythm guitar functionality with Arpeggios try the Performance: “Double Dippin’ the Funk” an homage to Kool and the Gang from the ‘70s and ‘80s. Here, you have two rhythm guitars, one controlled by the left hand the other by the right. The rhythm part sounds only when you are actually pressing the keys, but runs silently in the background when you release. This allows you to create unique phrases by how you play/interact with the keys, how long you hold the chord. You can create “call and response” type interaction with different timing strikes (some people find the guitar doing exactly the same thing with HOLD over and over not interesting (it’s personal taste). The HOLD Mode is “SYNC-OFF” (the Phrase remains in Sync even though Hold is technically Off).

Different strokes for different folks, and so on, and so on... (sorry, that’s a Sly Stone reference...MONTAGE is a programmable synth, program it as you like.

Hope that helps.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 1
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
With rare exception - which are sounds which are fully constructed to be ARP only and do not work at all without an ARP - I want ARPs to be off. That means my world would have all presets force ARPs off and require manual programming to turn them on (and [STORE] my own version if I wanted to stop fiddling with that).

I do understand that global things are easier to deal with (one setting to change) vs. PART-level (up to 8 different things - assuming local control only). But I also prefer, due to timing variation (since I use the instrument live) to "play" my own ARPs rather than have hold take care of this. This allows for some adjustment when timing is not spot-on to let go and re-sync every now and then.

That said, there are examples of presets on Montage that do not absolutely have to have ARP on (by default) - but do.

I'm not giving a reason why - because ultimately there's no compelling reason why they should be set one way or the other. It's fairly irrelevant because about half the users are going to want them set one way and the other half the other. That your way (for this or that Performance) wasn't how the preset was picked is not worth turning into a mystery or assigning controversy to.

I can say, however, that this may highlight that a way to switch all PARTs' ARP holds to ON may be a useful feature. If not a single button to flip all PARTs' ARP Hold to ON - maybe just a single screen to do so. Chris has proposed the [PERFORMANCE] (HOME) screen add ARP Hold as a button on each PART. That would at least facilitate the change.

That said - there are lots of things that may help workflow of very specific actions -- not everything can be accommodated as you have to draw the line somewhere (what to put behind layers of menus - and what to have out in front). There are just too many options to place them all "out front". Software assist utilities (on PC) could help - changing your edit buffer.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 2
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
sure, once you know how to change it it´s not that difficult. but I am just wondering why they programmed it to sound wrong by default. what if you´re in the music shop trying out the Montage and select a preset like 12 string guitar (which only works with arps, otherwise it´s not a guitar sound because you cannot make this kind of guitar picking pattern on a synth by hand) and you change a chord and there´s a pause in the sound between chords because the arp just stops abrubptly between chord changes. are you going to think this is a great guitar simulating synth? probably not cos it´s not going to sound like someone who knows how to pick on a guitar but like a beginner that has to stop between each chord change...
I mean, there´s nothing one can do about it, the presets are as they are, I just think it´s strange that some instruments arps are not programmed by default to sound their optimum.
also strange that arp is not even active by default on guitar sounds that sound best when there´s a picking arp. ok, maybe they thought we should first just play chords, but hey, if the performance is called "fingered 12 string" and the arp is off by default then by it´s not fingered...
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 3
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
When I'm doing rhythm guitar on the keyboard I'm not so concerned about a specific picking pattern even if it would be more realistic to adopt one. Sometimes I pick 12-string when that's an appropriate sound for the guitar. I've also used the keyboard with a guitar synth controller before when I felt like the produced sounds of the keyboard sounded better than the real sound of my guitar -- or was just easier to deal with rather than amps/effects of the guitar plus a keyboard rig. In this case, ARPs aren't wanted.

One thing that bothered me about the ES series is it seemed that all Performances had ARPs turned on. Voices were static without ARPs - but Performances seemed to imply there had to be an ARP. That kept me using all my sounds in Voice mode for a long time -- which was limiting. I eventually blew away a chunk of the user ARPs and created my own performances - none of them with ARP hold. Only one with an ARP that automated a sweeping harp sound. The thing that irked me about the ARP performances what that you pressed a key to see what it did and would hear a full disco or techno or "noise" you had to "switch off". I didn't want a full drum background and so much automation in every sound.

Today we have everything is a Performance - so there is "balance". There's something more than a handful and less than a boatload of sounds that have ARPs (the old Performance paradigm) -- and since we have no more voices -- there's a majority of more basic building block sounds without so much animation (ARPs) on by default. It's a bit split down the middle - enough to delight and frustrate just about anyone depending on which Performance they pick.

I'm not sure I agree there's a one-size-fits-all perspective on any Performance (12 string Performances included). There's a group that can land on either side and those who use the current programming fine as-is. As well as those who need to press 4-16 buttons to get the Performance more in-line with what they want then press [STORE] to save the customized version.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 4
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
mhhh, well no there´s not a one size fits all solution, but if a person knows nothing about the Montage and tries it out at the store and presses "fingered 12 string" and then nothing impressive happens because arp is off by default (and this newbie trying the Monty does not know how to turn arp on yet) I think it´s a bit of a shame. cos this person is not going to hear a fingered 12 string. and the fingered 12 string with the specially designed mega-arp sounds pretty good and very realistic. I think the many sound demo videos on youtube with guitars probably all have the mega-arps going (on hold!) for people to hear how realistic a guitar can sound on the Monty. but to hear it you have to study first, and I think it would have been better to preset it the other way around: if you don´t want the mega-arp, learn how to turn it off.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 5
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
mhhh, well no there´s not a one size fits all solution, but if a person knows nothing about the Montage and tries it out at the store and presses "fingered 12 string" and then nothing impressive happens because arp is off by default (and this newbie trying the Monty does not know how to turn arp on yet) I think it´s a bit of a shame. cos this person is not going to hear a fingered 12 string. and the fingered 12 string with the specially designed mega-arp sounds pretty good and very realistic. I think the many sound demo videos on youtube with guitars probably all have the mega-arps going (on hold!) for people to hear how realistic a guitar can sound on the Monty. but to hear it you have to study first, and I think it would have been better to preset it the other way around: if you don´t want the mega-arp, learn how to turn it off.

With most any of the 2655 Performances they can press the [AUDITION] button and hear the selected sound “played” in real-time. The AUDITION phrase is a musician performing that sound in real-time - stored as MIDI data to internal memory... so I must disagree with your conclusion. No study is necessary, they just need to press one button (and relax and listen). Highly recommended anytime you arrive on a sound and you wonder what it would sound like actually played by someone who knows how to show off what the sound does...try it. Call up “Fingered 12 String” or any of the guitar sounds.

You may find this actually more satisfying than recalling a sound with Arp On and have it automatically analyze what notes you played and then generate a phrase... I’ll go so as far to say many people would prefer to play the actual sound themselves... you don’t have to know about chords, you don’t have know how to “work” the Arps... either play it manually, and if you find you want to hear in some musical context ...try pressing [AUDITION]
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 6
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
When I play 'acoustic guitar parts' I like to split my keyboard, transposing the lower part 1 octave up. Then you can play the same chord with left- and right hand very quickly while using your sustain pedal; simulates a rythm guitar. Works great.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 7
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Robert,
I use a similar method too, at certain times, and it can be very effective having a split with the same guitar sound in each hand for rapid repeated lines and notes. I’ll give a shout out to DCP (Dave Polich) and his “Axxe” Library of Guitar sounds... They found a “permanent home” in my MONTAGE (as part of a Library).
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 8
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