YamahaSynth.com Forums

This is the place to talk about all things related to Yamaha Synthesizers!
  1. Colin
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. Tuesday, 12 October 2021
I'm a very basic Montage user and am not skilled in many technical aspects.

I'm tring to record my FIRST ever song using the Pattern Sequencer (using 4 different scenes) and I'm 80% through the song but am now faced with a "Data Memory Full" message.

I have read some online threads about how 'hard' players (possibly like me) can possibly suck up excess Data memory by inadvertently using Aftertouch but I can't see how to remedy the situation to get rid of this Data Full message and then carry on with my song.

Can anybody help please via some simple instructions?

Mr Shrimper (UK)
Responses (42)
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Do you need the after touch in your recording?

If not, you can delete the After Touch "events", and free up those "event spaces", AND you can turn off After Touch in terms of the keyboard's response to your playing... and add it back later with a DAW or by manually adding controller sweeps and edits later.

Turning off after touch involves going into the Mod menu, and is a bit involved. Jason probably knows the routine by heart, to find all the ways it's impacting the sounds you're using.

It doesn't surprise me that Yamaha would overlook something like the potential for after touch to create an overwhelming number of values to the Pattern Sequencer. They're consistent.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 1
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I'm a very basic Montage user and am not skilled in many technical aspects.

I'm tring to record my FIRST ever song using the Pattern Sequencer (using 4 different scenes) and I'm 80% through the song but am now faced with a "Data Memory Full" message.

I have read some online threads about how 'hard' players (possibly like me) can possibly suck up excess Data memory by inadvertently using Aftertouch but I can't see how to remedy the situation to get rid of this Data Full message and then carry on with my song.

Can anybody help please via some simple instructions?
From your PATTERN screen
Touch “Edit/Job” > “Song/Event” > “Erase Event” > setup the dialog box by setting “Track”, you can do one at a time (1-16), or “All”
Set the “Scene” # (1-8)
Set the “Start” and “End” positions

Set the “Event Type” = Aftertouch
Or you can put “Auto Select” = On, then apply key pressure to automatically select “Aftertouch”
Tap the box “Erase Event” to execute.

Repeat for each of your 4 Scenes
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 2
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
To Bad Mister,

Can you please post screenshots of the first couple of screens that you refer to above in order to get me going as I can't currently see any screen option called "Song/Event" that you refer to above...thanks
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 3
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
To Bad Mister,

Can you please post screenshots of the first couple of screens that you refer to above in order to get me going as I can't currently see any screen option called "Song/Event" that you refer to above...thanks
If you don’t see “Song/Event” (for example, it may only say “Song” ) you will need to update your instrument firmware to the latest version 3.51
Link — Official MONTAGE Download _ OS Updater 3.51

Song_Event.png

https://www.yamahasynth.com/images/MONTAGE_PATTERN_OSv3.5/Pattern008.png
Attachments (1)
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 4
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
To Bad Mister,

I've been trying to erase Aftertouch Events as instructed to clear user memory but it is saying "no data" when I press Erase Event (see pic below) and I am still getting the same "User Data Memory Full" message when I try to record another measure of my song!
Attachments (1)
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 5
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
The “No Data” screen is shown when there is nothing of the type of event in the region you defined. So this means it is not Aftertouch that is causing the error message.

“Data Memory Full” or “User Data Memory Full” could mean you have filled User Memory elsewhere
In other words, we may have prematurely assumed it was Aftertouch.

Come to think of it… The Sequencer has its own full error messages.

To troubleshoot this navigate to the [UTILITY] > “Contents” > “Data Utility”
These are folders containing your User Memory. Review the Folders. This will give you an idea of what is what. And may give a better idea of how much User data you currently have amassed thus far.
Arp — 256
Library — 8 User
Live Set — 8 User Banks
Motion Sequencer - 256
Pattern — 128
Performance — 640
Song — 128
Waveform — 2048 or 1.8GB whichever comes first
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 6
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Reply to Bad Mister

These are my current User Data stats - there doesn't appear to be any lack of space??:

Arp — 0/256
Library — 4/8 User
Live Set — 1/8 User Banks
Motion Sequencer -0/256
Pattern — 50/128
Performance — 47/640
Song — 1/128
Waveform — 852MB/1.8GB whichever comes first

Await your further thoughts please
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 7
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Reply to Bad Mister

These are my current User Data stats - there doesn't appear to be any lack of space??:

Arp — 0/256
Library — 4/8 User
Live Set — 1/8 User Banks
Motion Sequencer -0/256
Pattern — 50/128
Performance — 47/640
Song — 1/128
Waveform — 852MB/1.8GB whichever comes first

Await your further thoughts please
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 8
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
See the last answer, here: https://www.yamahasynth.com/ask-a-question/modx-spontaneously-detuned-can-t-seem-to-fix

About potential spamming of controller info that might be occurring, and how to detect if it's happening.

To Jason and Bad Mister: is it possible that After Touch is generating controller info at its target (that which it controls) rather than it being stored as After Touch controller info?
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 9
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Information/guidance provided above by Andrew is unfortunately way beyond my basic knowledge capability of montage.

Can anyone (Bad Mister?) suggest anything simple that I can delete to ease my 'Data Memory Full' situation?
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 10
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I’m researching — when I find something to report I will post. Here is where we are, thus far:

According to the Owners Manual, if the Sequencer is full it will post a specific message saying that is the issue.
The “Data Memory Full” message is displayed when: “The internal memory is full, preventing storing of the recorded data in the Library.”
I can find no listing for “User Data Memory Full” in the Manual, but it may have been added in a subsequent update.

When, exactly, does the error message appear? For example, does it appear when try to enter Record, or when you try to [STORE], for example. Or is it just always there?
Also can you give us an idea of the LENGTH of each of your four Scenes? 256 Measures is maximum per Scene.
The Song Sequencer has 128 locations; 520,000 Notes whichever comes first
The Pattern Sequencer has 128 locations; 520,000 Notes whichever comes first

From the current documentation - if you exceed these limits you will get a “Song full”. The Display Messages lists “Song Full” but does not have a message for Patterns (added after release) I’ll need to check if they have similarly added a “Pattern full” error message… which seems highly likely.

I’ll need, from you, as accurate a description of exactly when the message appears, and which of the two appears.
“Data Memory Full” is listed
“User Data Memory Full” is not listed as an official Error message in the documentation (this could be something added in an update — that is what I’ll need to find out).

Let us know and we’ll let you know as soon as we hear back.

Things you might want to try (in the meantime):
On the outside chance you may have exceeded the half million Note limit for the Pattern Sequencer…
Try saving your largest of the 50 Pattern Sequence Scenes as .mid files
You can use MONTAGE CONNECT to drag and drop them into a folder on your computer (Scene by Scene)
Or you Save them Scene by Scene to a USB stick. (Try moving just one of the larger Patterns to see if it gives your extra room).

Once you have each Scene backed up, Delete that Pattern ([UTILITY] > “Contents” > “Data Utility” > Pattern folder > highlight it and tap DELETE) See if this makes enough room for you to finish your current Pattern.
Each Scene saved as .mid file will have the name and Scene number, so they can easily be loaded back, later.
Let us know.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 11
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
@Colin

VERY STRONG WARNING!!!

What Bad Mister is suggesting in things to try - DELETES the recordings from your Montage. Permanently!

So make absolutely sure that you've gotten it off to your computer or USB drive before you attempt that onboard deletion (deleting from Montage).

I can't say this strongly enough - be VERY careful to make sure you got it off to USB and/or computer.

VERY VERY SURE!!!
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 12
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
To Bad Mister,

Before I try to do anything too radical in terms of any deletions/backups, let me update you on a few things here:

1/ My sincere apologies in my previous inaccuracy of message...the error messege is indeed "Data Memory Full" and NOT 'user data memory full'.

2/ That message pops up when I try to press the (Red light) pattern record button. It DOES NOT appear when I am trying to store a song.

3/ I am however finding that after getting the Data Memory Full message if I then power down and restart montage, it seems to then allow me "one shot" at recording something before the Data Memory Full message re-appears and stops me from any further recording.

4/ I HAVE NOT had the "Song Full" message come up at all

5/ The song I am currently trying to record is so far 3mins 38secs long and contains 8 seperate patterns (3 pianos,bass,strings,synth pad and drums) and uses 3 scenes which I switch between during playback the song (simular to intro,verse,chorus etc)

6/ Am I right in assuming using more of the 8 available scenes will not worsen my current problem?)

7/ You asked for length data info of my the scenes I am using ....how do I do that please?

8/ I have also noticed that the pattern recorder does not record any sustain data and so I have to work the sustain perdal "on the fly". so in summary, when I'm playing back the song on the sequencer, I am using my hands to switch scenes and my foot to control sustain. I that how it is supposed to work?


Wait to hear responses please
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 13
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
/ My sincere apologies in my previous inaccuracy of message...the error messege is indeed "Data Memory Full" and NOT 'user data memory full'.
Thank you for that, it will help.

That message pops up when I try to press the (Red light) pattern record button. It DOES NOT appear when I am trying to store a song.
Thank you, that also helps.

The song I am currently trying to record is so far 3mins 38secs long and contains 8 seperate patterns (3 pianos,bass,strings,synth pad and drums) and uses 3 scenes which I switch between during playback the song (simular to intro,verse,chorus etc)
This is not clear. Whatever you are recording it is not 8 separate patterns. This is likely terminology confusion.

There are 8 Pattern Scenes, numbered 1-8 in each Pattern.
Each Pattern starts with a default name: “001: New Pattern1” would be the very first Pattern… “128: New Pattern128” would be the very last Pattern. (Highly recommended that you enter a Pattern Name — you simply tap that box and select “Rename”.

Each of the 128 Patterns have 8 Scenes, numbered 1-8 and selectable via your 8 Blue front panel [SCENE] buttons. When you say you are using 8 Patterns - we understand you probably are using just one Pattern, right? You must be referring to 8 Tracks of the 16 (although you only listed 7 instruments — “3 pianos,bass,strings,synth pad and drums”… (?)

A close look at the Pattern Sequencer screen:
https://www.yamahasynth.com/images/MONTAGE_PATTERN_OSv3.5/Pattern006.png
The Name box is at the top and the Pattern can be linked (two chainlinks interlocking) to a specific Performance.

Next you have Time Signature, Position (Measure:Beat:Clock counter), current Tempo and access to the “Edit/Job” features

Next you have the currently selected Scene, 1-8, as you move to the next Scene the LENGTH in measures will appear. You must set the number of measure recorded to a Scene before you begin to record. The default is just 4 measures. This means once you record 4 measures the Track cycles back to the top.

If you did not set this prior to recording (please let us know).
It is a requirement of using the looping Pattern Sequencer that you define both the “Time Signature” and the record “Length” setting prior to recording. If you do not — thing will not go well!

The LENGTH determines how many measures will be recorded before it loops around (cycles back to the top). Before you record set the LENGTH to the number of measures you want to record to this Scene… example, if Scene 1 is going to be your introduction - if the intro is 8 measures, you need to set this to 8. If Scene 2 is going to a 16 measure Verse, before recording set the LENGTH to 16, and so on.

Scene Record “Length” can be set to any number of Measures 1 ~ 256.

The currently selected Scene has a box. As you look at Scene 1 - the box labeled LENGTH tells you how many measures this Scene will play before it loops.
If you then change to Scene 2, the Length parameter will tell you how many measures are in this Pattern Scene before it cycles around… and so on.

“Key On Start” and whether “Loop” Recording will take place (On/Off) — this LOOP feature appears once the [RECORD] button is pressed.
Followed by the view of Tracks 1-8, and then 9-16.

When transferring Arpeggio Phrases to the Pattern Sequencer; you will want “Key On Start” = On — this will automatically coordinate the Start of recording to you touching the keyboard (completely accurate start)… and setting the Record “Loop” = Off will automatically END recording at the precise End of the set record Length… making a perfect transfer of the Arpeggio data to MIDI event data.

I have also noticed that the pattern recorder does not record any sustain data and so I have to work the sustain perdal "on the fly". so in summary, when I'm playing back the song on the sequencer, I am using my hands to switch scenes and my foot to control sustain. I that how it is supposed to work?
No, not at all.

Recording sustain pedal into a MIDI Sequencer (any MIDI Sequencer) requires the following discipline from the player: You must engage the Sustain pedal after recording has begun, and you must release the sustain pedal before recording ends.

MIDI data is not sound, it is a series of coded messages that are sent one-after-the-other (serial). In order to document a Sustain pedal On message (CC64 = 127) so that it gets recorded, you cannot press the pedal before the Sequencer starts documenting events.

If you were to already have your foot down on the Sustain pedal before the (count-in) Position counter gets to Measure 001, Beat 01, Clock 000, no Sustain pedal On message gets recorded. Therefore when you playback, there will be no message that says “Sustain On”. It is simply a matter of the recorder has a definitive START DOCUMENTING point: Measure 001, Beat 01, Clock 000

It also has a definitive STOP DOCUMENTING point. So say you are recording into a 4 Measure Pattern Scene, but you have your foot on the Sustain pedal already… you will hear the sustain but you did not record the Sustain On event (CC64 = 127). So the playback doesn’t every see the On message (it is not documented).

Now imagine you are not careful and you don’t lift off the Sustain pedal until the Pattern Scene has already looped around to the top again, then on playback: the first Sustain message recorded would be a Sustain Off message (CC64 = 0)… this is why you are not hearing your Sustain pedal performing.

It is exactly the same as if you where holding down a Chord, then started the Pattern Sequencer… if the Sequencer does not witness you pressing those Keys, they are not there on playback…even though you heard them when you struck the keys.

Midi is not Audio. It is not sound. It’s behavior is different… It is a series of coded messages that travel in serial fashion - one-after-the-other. This means neatness counts. The initial event of you stepping On the Sustain pedal must occur AFTER recording has started… and you must document the Sustain Off message BEFORE the Pattern Scene loops back to the top.

Every coded event’s placement is extremely important.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 14
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Wow...sounds like I am in a right 'buggers muddle' with both my termology and use of sustain...do you think I should just delete the pattern (i.e my song) entirely and start again?:

So I guess that I mean I'm recording just one pattern (i.e my song) and YES I have renamed it.....and yes it's linked to a performance

and I'm using 3 pattern SCENES (an intro,verse,chorus)

yes...I'm using 8 (of the 16 available tracks) - 3 pianos,bass,strings,strings,synth pad and drums

Are you saying that if I had recorded this correctly, the sequencer would have recorded the various pattern scene changes and therefore I shouldn't have to change any scenes 'on the fly'?

and simularly...if I had used the sustain correctly that would also have been recorded correctly?

I had left the measures set to 4 so that I could record just 4 measures at a time (cos' I make too many mistakes to record a whole intro or verse at a time). Can I do that or do I have to set the measures to match the whole length of the intro...or verse etc?

I'm not using any looping

yeah I understand 'key on start'

Have I covered all my crimes above? :)
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 15
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Are you saying that if I had recorded this correctly, the sequencer would have recorded the various pattern scene changes and therefore I shouldn't have to change any scenes 'on the fly'?
NO. Pattern Scene changes can be automated only by creating a Pattern Chain.

A Pattern Chain allows you to tell the Sequencer how many measures of each Pattern Scene you want to play. this is NOT done 'on-the-fly" but you actually enter the data into a static grid
Measure 001 -- Play Scene 1
Measure 009 -- Play Scene 2
Measure 025 -- Play Scene 3
etc

Once you have completed several Scenes... Tap the box 'CHAIN"
It will ask you to STORE your data... answer Yes. CHAIN will now be active... You can construct the Pattern Scene Chain by tapping "Edit/Job" > select "Chain"
the CHAIN creation screen
Tap the "+" to insert the first SCENE you want to play

This will place it at Measure 001
Next tap the "+" to add a second SCENE
move the cursor over and tell it what measure you want this SCENE to start playing
and so on....

and simularly...if I had used the sustain correctly that would also have been recorded correctly?
YES, exactly.

I had left the measures set to 4 so that I could record just 4 measures at a time (cos' I make too many mistakes to record a whole intro or verse at a time). Can I do that or do I have to set the measures to match the whole length of the intro...or verse etc?
This is up to you. All I'm saying that if you only record 4 measures and your Intro is 8 measures in LENGTH -- you would need to let the 4 measures play thourgh once and then LOOP once to create 8 Measures.

Measure 1 and Measure 5 are identical
Measure 2 and Measure 6 are identical
Measure 3 and Measure 7 are identical
Measure 4 and Measure 8 are identical

I'm not using any looping
Yes you are - you are in Pattern mode, you are using looping. By definition Patterns LOOP

Have I covered all my crimes above? :)
No worries. Take your time. If you as you say, make too many mistakes, you can easily erase mistakes and continue until you get just what you need.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 16
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Thanks so far....but given I'm still stuck with this 'Data Memory Full' situation, am I best (in your opinion) to scrap this pattern completely and start again IF this will consequently free up data memory and get me moving again?
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 17
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Thanks so far....but given I'm still stuck with this 'Data Memory Full' situation, am I best (in your opinion) to scrap this pattern completely and start again IF this will consequently free up data memory and get me moving again?
I can't really say it will fix anything. Because as much as you have told me I still do not have a handle on the format of your SCENES

Are they each 4 measures in LENGTH?
How is it that you think you are NOT using LOOPING? (that is most curious). Pattern SCENEs automatically LOOP when you play back - you do not have a choice about that - that is what they do.

Give me an ideal of how you record SCENE 1...
SCENE 1 is the INTRO, Okay, when you playback you let 4 measures play and then you hit SCENE 2 (?) Is that correct?
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 18
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Thanks so far....but given I'm still stuck with this 'Data Memory Full' situation, am I best (in your opinion) to scrap this pattern completely and start again IF this will consequently free up data memory and get me moving again?


You don't seem to have done anything radically wrong or that should have used up this much memory. So there might be a weird thing happening that will cause this problem to occur if you delete and start again.

At this point, because it's odd that this fullness has happened with seemingly a small use of the Pattern Sequencer, it might be best to start trying to do remote triage via some more back and forth here, with the uber knowledgeable Bad Mister, to track down what's causing the problem of unnecessary fullness.

The Pattern Sequencer is limited, but not this limited. My daughter uses it very heavily and has never seen this particular fullness, despite often using up all 128 patterns and many of the Scenes in each, often with more than 8 parts, and many Scenes running all the way out to 256 bar, as she sketches out ideas and explores orchestration and patterning.

And then I come along and add filter sweeps and copy out some of her parts to the back 8, and add more animation and motion to some of them, all without any issues on a mere MODX.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 19
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
My intro is probably about 20 measures long which I have built up in blocks of 4.

As I said, the pattern sequencer has not to date been 'recording' my scenes s midi messages so although it is scene1 one that I usually press when I playback the intro I (scene 1 containing tracks 1-7 open but track 8 (drums) muted) I could theorectically press any of the scenes such as scene 2 or scene 3 but if I did that my intro would have drums playing on it which I don't want so thats why I press scene 1, After the intro I switch scene 2 (on the fly as I've previously mentioned) which has all 8 tracks open so I hear drums on it.... but again theoretically, I could press any of the scenes if I wanted...so if Ileft it on scene 1, the song would continue with just tracks 1-7 open and track 8 muted.

Because of the way I've done all this (clearly wrongly), my pattern scenes have seemingly just been being used as a 'file' of the particular tracks(instruments) that I want to hear at that point in the song

Make any sense?
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 20
  • Page :
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3


There are no replies made for this post yet.
Be one of the first to reply to this post!
2021 © Yamaha Corporation of America and Yamaha Corporation. All rights reserved.