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  1. Christoffer
  2. CP4/40
  3. Sunday, 25 November 2018
Hi. I'm having some problems storing edits.
This is where things go well: I can start to edit a sound and the "E" will appear. I can then Store the sound, and it says "Completed".
But when I change to another sound and back again to the one I just stored (within the same performance), it's right back to default settings and suddently says "E" again, without me having edited anything since I just stored that sound. I find my edited version however, by clicking Edit two times, when in Compare-mode. I don't understand why..
So basically: Every time I store an edit, then change sound within the same performance and switch back to the one I just edited and stored, the sound is not the edited version I just stored, but rather the default setting. My edited, stored version, however, gets stored in a way that makes it appear when I press Edit two times and go to Compare-mode. So I can compare the two sounds with the edit-button, but then the default setting is present when just in Edit-mode, and the edited, stored setting is present in Compare-mode.
It always says "Completed" when I store, and the "E" disappears, but when I change to another sound (just turning the wheel once back and forth), it's right back to default settings.
This seems weird. Am I not understanding how the Store-function works?
I'm hoping you can help me out.
Thank you!

- Chris
Responses (5)
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Hi Chris,

I think where you may be misunderstanding the Store function is that it's not possible to edit and store a "sound" as you say (I assume by "sound" you mean Voice). You can only edit and store a Performance.

Also, there's a factory-default set of certain Part parameters (especially Effects) that go with each Voice. If you edit some Part parameters in a Performance, then you switch to a different Voice, then you switch back to the original Voice, the CP4 will reload those factory-default Part parameters that go with that original Voice, not your previously edited parameters. (Some parameters will remain unchanged, but parameters for which there are these specific factory defaults, especially Effects, will reload the defaults.)

So, for example:

(1) You start in factory-default Performance #001, in which the Voice in the Main Part is [A. Piano1, 01:CFX St]. You click Edit, go to Edit Part, make changes to various parameters, then click Store, saving the edited Performance. The "E" Edit indicator then disappears, because you've now saved your new customized version of Performance #001, and it has replaced the factory-default version. Note that you haven't edited or stored a new version of the Voice [A. Piano1, 01:CFX St], you've merely edited and stored a new version of Performance #001.

(2) Without changing Performances, still in customized and saved Performance #001, you then select a different Voice for the Main part ... let's say [A. Piano3, 01:S6 St]. The "E" Edit indicator reappears, because you're now editing your customized Performance #001.

(3) You decide you don't like that S6 Voice, and you want to go back to the CFX Voice, so you re-select [A. Piano1, 01:CFX St]. Re-selecting that Voice reloads any factory-default parameters that go with that Voice, not your customized versions of those parameters. However, if you go into Compare mode, you'll be back in your customized version, because that is now the saved version of Performance #001.

Once you make any edit to a Performance, you'll remain in Edit mode, and the "E" indicator will remain on, until you either store or exit the Performance, even if you just change one parameter and change it right back. So, if you're in the situation described in #3 above, the thing to do is to exit the Performance, then re-select the Performance, not just re-select the original Voice.

Hope that helps.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. CP4/40
  3. # 1
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Thank you for the quick answer. I think I understand better now, but I still have some questions.
It works like you describe if I re-select the Performance, but if I change Voice, without making any Edits, it still goes into Edit-mode, and all voices are now back to factory default settings. You're saying this is how it is supposed to work? Seems highly unpractical for a Stage piano made to use for live playing.
Shouldn't a Performance be Stored as a whole, so that I can choose between different Voices in the same Performance (during a real life performance)? I think I'm still missing something.. I don't want the CP4 to go into Edit-mode, restoring its factory default settings when I'm playing live, just because I'm switching to another Voice within the same Performance. Seems like this is the exact opposite of what the concept of Performance is supposed to do.
So the main issue is that the CP4 skips to Edit mode if I just switch Voice within a Performance (without editing any parameters) - a pretty normal thing to do when playing live. And by doing this all Voices are set to factory default settings. If this is how it's supposed to work, I can't use it to play live, and have to buy something else. I love the Voices and Edit-options, but it's of no use if I can't Store the Voices within a Performance and switch between Voices within the same performance.
And why does many parameters go back to factory default settings when in Edit-mode? What is the practical usefulness of this?

Thanks, Chris
  1. more than a month ago
  2. CP4/40
  3. # 2
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I love the Voices and Edit-options, but it's of no use if I can't Store the Voices within a Performance and switch between Voices within the same performance.
And why does many parameters go back to factory default settings when in Edit-mode? What is the practical usefulness of this?


I think the CP4's design concept is that you'll create separate Performances for each of the Voice customizations that you like, and then when you're gigging, you'll switch between those Performances. This gives exactly the result you're looking for, I think. For example, I have several Performances using CFX Voices, each with different customizations, and several Performances with Rhodes EP Voices, each with different customizations, etc. (I never use the factory Performances that came with the CP4.) So, when I want to switch, let's say, from my go-to CFX Voice to my Rhodes phaser Voice, I just switch between my customized Performances. I never switch Voices within a single Performance when playing.

Why are you reluctant to switch between Performances, as opposed to switching between Voices? Switching between Performances is at least as convenient, if not more so, and can be done in several different ways depending on how fast you need to make your switches and how you prefer doing them. For example, if you like using the panel push-buttons (normally used for switching Voices), you can assign your Performances to them, in banks of 16. Some players who do that will tape a label of Performance names above the buttons (because the Voice labels on the buttons will be inapplicable). (Daryl Hall plays a CP4 sometimes and it looks like he does this, because you can see a label above the push-buttons on his CP4, as in this screen capture from one of his LFDH shows:

https://i.postimg.cc/Y923G96k/Daryl-Hall-CP4.jpg

Or you can use a footswitch to increment up or down Performances one by one, hands-free. Bruno Zuchetti uses that technique in the beginning sequence of this video, incrementing up through four different Performances during the James Bond theme:



Personally, I just use the wheel.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. CP4/40
  3. # 3
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Hi Chris,
You seem to be missing some very fundamental knowledge about how your CP4 Stage works. Try to NOT force your thinking on it for a minute... ...

Voices are linked to Performances — that is to say, when you select a new Performance, the Voices for all Parts will change. In addition, if you select a Part and change its Voice, that change will be reflected in the current Performance.

The concept of the “PART” is very important — there are three Parts maximum to a CP4 Stage Performance. The Performance can have just one Part, MAIN; or it can have two MAIN and LAYER, or MAIN and SPLIT; or it can have three Parts, MAIN, LAYER and SPLIT.

A Voice can occupy a Part within a Performance.
A Voice is a Preset. When you place it in a Performance, the Performance applies it’s Part parameters to that Preset Voice. As an owner of a CP4 Stage, you cannot create Voices, you create Performances. You do so by selecting from the library of already made Voices... these Voices are made by the expert programmers at Yamaha.

The Voices are listed by Category. Say you want to create a Piano / Bass Split.
You would select the Piano Voice you would like to use and place it in “Main” Part.
You would select the Bass Voice you would like to use and place it in the “Split” Part.

You do not create the Piano, you do not create the Bass... what YOU do is choose to use these two Voices to create your new Performance.
YOU decide where to place the SPLIT Point. That’s an edit YOU make... this parameter is stored (not with the Voice) it is stored as a Performance setting. The original Voice is NOT changed at all... it remains just as it was when placed there in the factory in Hamamatsu Japan.

Performance settings are offsets applied to the Preset Voices you have selected... say you only want the Piano to go as low as G2, and the Bass to go as high as F#2. You have not edited the Voice, you have allowed access that Preset Voice through the ‘window’ of your PART settings. The Piano Voice you have selected is still in memory, unchanged. The 20 or 30 other Performances that use that same Preset Piano Voice, remain absolutely unchanged. The fact that you are only using this particular Voice from G2 and above in *this* Performance does not affect any other Performance that uses the same Piano Preset VOICE.

In the very next Performance you can use the same two Preset Voices, except this time the Bass goes up to B2 and the Piano goes as low as C3... and in this Performance you have Note Shifted the Piano down one Octave and the Bass up one Octave to accommodate the Song you’re playing. The original VOICES are unchanged, what you have edited in this second Performance is the set of Offset parameters (Part parameters) that are collected in the USER Performances... these offsets are applied to the fixed Preset Voice data which remains unchanged.

You could use this same Piano Voice in one hundred or more Performances and it could different in each one, without destructive changing the original Voice.

All Voices are pre-Set at the Factory.
All Performances are User memory, those 128 that come in the CP4 Stage right out of the box are all user customizable.... please customize them to your use.

You use the Factory Presets (Voices) to build/construct your own Performances.
Knowing about Insertion Effects (which are Part of the Voice) versus Reverb and Chorus which are System Effects will also be covered in the following resources:

Important reading:
Owner’s Manual: Page 21 — Performances
And the QUICK GUIDE — Starting On Page 22

Additional reading:
Introduction to the CP4 Stage Piano

Video Help:
Understanding Performances CP4/CP40
  1. more than a month ago
  2. CP4/40
  3. # 4
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Thank you so much!
It makes a lot more sense now that I understand that my edited Voices gets Stored as different Performances, so I just have to switch between them instead, and I can basically customize 128 Performances as my favorite sounds.
You both saved my day. Thanks.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. CP4/40
  3. # 5
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