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  1. Jim
  2. MONTAGE
  3. Thursday, 08 September 2016
Hello,

Just got a Montage 7, and was under the impression Motif XF user voices can be imported. According to the reference manual (p.176), "User Voice/Waveform" .X3V files will load - but does that include custom stuff loaded into the Flash RAM of a Motif XF?

I created some custom sample-based voices years ago on a Motif XF that used the flash memory - I'm hoping these can be imported to Montage? These were really cool patches originally ported from Roland & Akai samples. I don't have them handy at the moment so I'm wondering if anyone else has tried this.

Montage would be a monster if it allowed you to import this kind of thing... here's hoping!

Thanks,

Jim
Responses (18)
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Now that I'm back in the studio I tried importing some converted voices from my Motif XF archives in .x3v format. It gets about 90% of the way through and then says "illegal file." Any idea what could cause this if it worked on a Motif XF? These aren't huge files (just some small pads and synths I sampled) so I know it's not a memory issue..:

Thanks!
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 1
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Hey guys,

I just imported a .X3V to my Montage. It works great. Make sure you are probably importing the file.

Good luck.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 2
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I've managed to import some .x3v files I found on the web - the issue seems to be with custom sounds I made on the Motif XF years ago that involved user samples. I'm not sure what's causing the "illegal file" issue, but I'm going to keep digging. It's got to be something simple somewhere. I thought maybe it was the samples themselves, but they're all stereo 44.1 WAVs, so they should be fine...
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 3
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Could be some illegal shortcut taken by the author, or since it starts and gets most of the way through it could simply be corrupted data.
It could be one of those things that should have been cleaned up - while the XF forgives this rogue data, the conversion algorithm that is translating it for the Montage cannot.

Check your data, particularly things you may have partially removed... Perhaps more than two samples occupy a key (trying to think of an example) if you stack multiple samples in a Keybank the XF will simply play the first two and ignore the rest, who knows what the conversion algorithm does when it sees this illogical data?
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 4
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Thanks Phil. I've been working on this with Garth at Chicken Systems. We've been doing some digging under the hood with Motif Creator and Translator, and here's one thing he found:

"There's something funny about the Coldplay patch: the first Element is disabled (and the second element, referencing pre-PIANO, is enabled) but yet it references the waveform contained. If you load the All Voice, you get the Illegal File error but it does load everything. You just have to enable Element 1 and disable Element 2. If you load the Voice only, it loads fine but the Waveform is not loaded, apparently because Element 1 is not enabled. Just the way the Motif works I guess.

So the Illegal File error msg, while of some concern, actually is a false error and everything does load properly. I'll figure it out and get back to you.

The P300 patch is more logical but still it behaves the same way as Coldplay. If you load the All Voice you get 'Illegal File' but everything does load in. If you load the individual Voice it loads without error and successfully since the Element(s) are enabled properly.

So what I'd do is get everything in one .X3V and load the All Voice. You'll get the Illegal File but just ignore it and play away. Of course this is how the MOXF reacts, the Montage may be more picky but if it is, let me know how picky - what isn't loaded etc."


Unfortunately the Montage won't load anything if it flags it as an illegal file - it just aborts the process. So, we'll keep working on it!

Jim
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 5
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
This probably won't help your situation - but I have seen illegal file under different circumstances.

When I get a random WAV file off the net - it'll show up as an illegal file. This was when I was trying to import silence as a waveform into the Montage. I ended up using the wav recorder onboard to generate silence - which it saw as a non-illegal file (OK file). At least for wavs - comparing the properties of these two would be fairly easy to find out what Montage is complaining about.

It'd be nice to have a reported rationale for what is wrong - but digging will often uncover other "nuggets" of information along the way.

That said - please do report back when you uncover what's tripping Montage's import.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 6
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Great news: I got everything working properly and am happily importing all my custom samples, thanks to Garth at Chicken Systems and their Motif Creator software. This makes it super easy to drag & drop other formats (Logic's EXS24 in this case) directly to Motif Creator, which exports .X3V files that Montage can read.

Here's the catch though: the Montage architecture doesn't let you edit raw sample mapping within a "Waveform" (Yamaha speak - quite a misnomer). For example, you can't get do course/fine tuning offsets, panning, etc. on the single sample level - so any patches that use that kind of thing in one format won't reflect that in the Montage. So, you just have to make sure you get everything right before importing to Montage - because once it's in there, you can't get at the raw sample data.

Anyway, it's all good with that workaround. I'm noticing that my custom samples are sounding REALLY good coming out of Montage - the audio quality is stellar!

JD
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 7
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I stand corrected - you can indeed edit key mapping, velocity range, volume, pan, coarse & fine tuning per sample within a "Waveform." I must have missed the little “edit Waveform” tab; once you’re in there, you can edit a “key bank” - Yamaha’s word for individual sample. Geez, I wish they would use the same terminology as the rest of the world... that aside, it is possible to edit down to the single sample level.

One request if anyone's listening - it would be great to edit sample loop points including crossfade capability - unless I've missed that somewhere too ;-)
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 8
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I've got a Yamaha Montage 7 too, and would love to have the motif xf performance sounds added. I tried this yesterday but not working as it says illegal file!!. Bought a 64GB USB 3.0, formatted on the montage and downloaded Motif xf performances from PC. Please let me know if you can do this as I am totally confused as to why it doesn't work. Yamaha have advertised this saying it can be done but I need step by step instructions that my manual does not have. Please, please help!!!!!:( :( :( :( :(
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 9
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Paul wrote:

I've got a Yamaha Montage 7 too, and would love to have the motif xf performance sounds added. I tried this yesterday but not working as it says illegal file!!. Bought a 64GB USB 3.0, formatted on the montage and downloaded Motif xf performances from PC. Please let me know if you can do this as I am totally confused as to why it doesn't work. Yamaha have advertised this saying it can be done but I need step by step instructions that my manual does not have. Please, please help!!!!!:( :( :( :( :(
You tagged on to the end of a thread from two years ago. MONTAGE has had several firmware updates since then. Version 2.00 added Motif XF Performance compatibility to Voice, Arpeggio, and Waveform compatibility with the Motif XF.

Make sure your MONTAGE has the latest firmware.

You mention it says “Illegal File” which is an error message when you attempt to load a file NOT compatible with the MONTAGE.
File Types from the Motif XF that are compatible are the following:
.X3A - Motif XF All Data File (Voices, Performances, Waveforms, and Arpeggio only)
.X3V - Motif XF All Voice File
.X3G - Motif XF All Arpeggio File
.X3W - Motif XF All Waveform

The MONTAGE is USB 2.0 although devices 1.1 ~ 3.0 can be used.

The 512 Motif XF (FACTORY) PERFORMANCES are available for free download... here under “Other Downloads”
While there take the time to download the latest (updated versions) of the DATA LIST, the REFERENCE MANUAL, and make sure you download the MONTAGE CONNECT utility software for your computer type.

We have been conducting an online tutorial series on how to MONTAGify these Motif XF Performances here

Update your firmware, if you still have issues let us know. Please check the File extension make sure you have a potentially compatible file.

How to check your firmware version:
Press [UTILITY]
Touch “Setting” > “System”
The version appears at the bottom of the screen, Current is 2.00.x
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 10
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I'm getting illegal file after minutes of loading, x3a files almost near the end of loading. Then some x3a files load but the samples don't sound in performances even tho the samples play fine if I put them into another performance part and element
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 11
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
In the programs where it does not sound:
Make sure the Element Switch is set to ON
Check the Note Limit and Velocity Limits
In general, review what was translated.
Check whether an Arp is set as active and verify the Arp KEY MODE
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 12
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Yes! I have an old library (.X3A) which, when loaded, wouldn't make any sound. All the waveforms were there and linked, but nadda.
I found that disabling the "Arp Play Only" setting on the element solved this issue.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 13
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Yes! I have an old library (.X3A) which, when loaded, wouldn't make any sound. All the waveforms were there and linked, but nadda.
The sounds work when I enable "Arp Bypass" in the Global FX screen.

I'm not sure what that does exactly (I just got this 'board) - Any ideas what's going on, and how to fix the Performances?
Without seeing the data it is difficult to say. Data waiting for Arp Phrases need the MIDI SYNC parameter set to “Internal” so that they follow Tempo.

But typically not all programs use the Arpeggiator. When you load a Motif XF ALL data file (.X3A) you get a couple of choices:
Did you load the data as a User File or a Library File?
Did you select to load “Voice” or “Performance“?
Does the original data contain User Arpeggios?
Can you describe a particular program specifically... how many Parts, how many Parts with Arps active?
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 14
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
So, it was an old Motif XF library from SC-sounds. I don't think it had any arps bundled with the sample library, but I don't know for sure.

I loaded them in as "Voice" data into a library.
They are all single-part, multi key-bank samples.

As I updated above, I found that disabling the "Arp Play Only" setting on the element solved this issue. Am I able to _save_ this change to the loaded Performances, or do I need to export them through "User" space?

Thank you for your help!
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 15
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
You can never change anything in a Library. The only option for a library is to load - which loads all Performances in bulk into a library slot. Or you can delete the library slot altogether. You cannot edit anything inside the library or delete Performances one-by-one.

If you want to "patch" some bad programming inside a Library Performance - you have two choices:

1) In-place (meaning don't get rid of the library) - make a copy of the Library Performance by pressing [STORE] and save a user copy of the Library. You can then edit parameters inside the user Performance. Note that when you [STORE] - the samples (Waveforms) will still reside in the Library and will not be copied to the user area. Instead, the User Performance you [STORE] a copy of will point to the original library - that's where the sample remains stored. You can get into trouble if you decide to delete the Library that contains the samples. If you do this and have User Performances pointing to a deleted library - then those User Performances will stop working.

However, this can be a valid quick-fix if you're not going to remove the Library.

2) You can do what you've mentioned - use the Library Import feature to make a CLONE of the Library Performance. Not just a copy of the parameters without the samples -- import will also duplicate the samples inside the Library to your user area. This Performance that is imported will be self-contained and will not be impacted if the Library used as the source for the import is deleted.

If you wanted to "fix" the Library to resave - then you would import ALL the Performances from the Library. Then, in your user area, edit those Performances you want to change (the Performances in your User area that have been imported from a Library). Then save a new Library - "fixed" library. Then erase the original library. Then load the "fixed" library.

Note you'd want to start this one off by first saving your user area and then clearing (initialize) just your user area. Note there are different types of initialization. Some erase your library and user area. Don't pick those. Just the user initialization.

3) ... alternatively, you could just load your Motif files differently. When loading X3A - you're able to land them directly into the user area instead of loading them into a library slot. So that may be preferred if you know you're going to want to edit things to clean up an X3A for enhanced/tweaked compatibility with Montage. Again, make sure to backup your user area first since loading legacy data (X3A as an example) into your user area will overwrite data in your user area.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 16
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
3) ... alternatively, you could just load your Motif files differently. When loading X3A - you're able to land them directly into the user area instead of loading them into a library slot. So that may be preferred if you know you're going to want to edit things to clean up an X3A for enhanced/tweaked compatibility with Montage. Again, make sure to backup your user area first since loading legacy data (X3A as an example) into your user area will overwrite data in your user area.
Of the “two choices“ offered above, the third is actually the most efficient. Before committing something to Read Only Memory, it simply makes sense to prepare the data and get it exactly as you would like it. Also you may wish to stop and consider what other data you might wish to add to this User Bank, before publishing it to a Library File. XF data (544 programs) leaves 96 MONTAGE Performance slots open in the User Bank (640 programs). And considering all the new features, effects, and programming options to take advantage of... it simply makes sense.

The XF sounds use only 2 Assign Knobs and 6 Control Set (Source/Destinations)... they have no relationship with the 8 Common Assign and the Super Knob... tweaker’s heaven. You can do things you dare not have dreamed about on an XF. 16 Control Sets and 8 Assign Knobs per Part... with the ability to link some of them to the Super Knobs 8 Common Knobs... well, why wouldn’t you.

A previous Motif XF owner would be very familiar with the loading of a file replacing the internal memory. It worked similarly in the XF where loading an ALL data file (.X3A) replaced all user data — (but left your installed Waveform data alone). Saving your User area is standard operating procedure.

Loading a Motif XF ALL data file .X3A requires conversion (takes time) — placing it directly to a Library is an available option, call it a ‘temporary Library‘ - but probably should be only used when handpicking data for a permanent Library creation.

Eventually, you want to make a permanent MONTAGE Library File .X7L — it is more efficient, takes less time to Load than the .X3A conversion. You make a permanent Library by assembling the Motif XF data in the MONTAGE User Bank (updating it) then saving as a Library File.

In the case of an XF Library that features new Waveforms, you definitely want to convert them as VOICE when loading to the MONTAGE. This will create each as the ‘anchor’ Part of a Single Part Performance and ensures all of the Waveforms are correctly catalogued. Loading this to the USER area will allow you to begin to tweak the sounds, starting with Effects... spend time with them in the MONTAGE User area and convert them to a Library only when you’re ready (Save your work to a User File until you feel the data is ready for permanent Library status). Don’t rush yourself.

Extra Credit:
Article Series: MONTAGifying Motif XF
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 17
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I’ve been reading through this thread and I have been experiencing an associated issue. I have a (.X3A) file. It loads successfully into the Montage USER section. All of the performance play successfully. File size is about 1meg. I save this USER section as a Library and successfully create the library file (.X7L). That file size is now about 2meg. I can re-load this library into the Montage successfully and it works. However when I load the file into the Melas Wave Editor, none of the wave samples appear. I thought generating a library file saved all the data associated with a performance including the waveforms. What am I missing? Thanks - Mark
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 18
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