YamahaSynth.com Forums

This is the place to talk about all things related to Yamaha Synthesizers!
  1. Aloysius
  2. Sherlock Holmes
  3. MONTAGE
  4. Saturday, 06 January 2018
Is there a button I can press that will turn on/off each element in a part permantly instead of using the touchscreen.. i know there is a mute button but it doesn't turn it off -- it only mutes it temporarily and when i switch to a different part the mutes are lost.. i don't want to keep using the touchscreen for such a simple task.. anyone?
Responses (15)
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
[MUTE] is temporary and has a dedicated front button per Element/Operator.
Element ON/OFF is a permanent status and is found within the AWM2 Part on the OSC/TUNE screen
Press [EDIT]
Press [PART SELECT X] to select a Part
Use a dedicated button [1]-[8] in row three on the right front panel to select an Element 1-8

Use the cursor arrow button to highlight the ELEMENT “On/Off” Switch
Use the [INC/DEC] buttons to turn the Element On or Off
This status can be stored and is used to eliminate an Element from real time access.

In the FM-X engine, the Operator is off when it’s Output level is set to 0. As a Modulator an Operator can still contribute even though it make no audible sound itself, if it is fed to a Carrier. Carrier contribute sound as long as they have an output level other than 0.

You would use AWM2 Element On/Off as a method to eliminate an Element from your programming. You would use the MUTE when at some point you might want to access this Element during play. Mute recalls can be done as apart of your performing gestures (Scenes) and active Elements can silenced (using Faders, AssignKnobs, Super Knob); Elements can also be dynamically recalled using the XA CONTROL feature linked to the AssignSw1/2... and Arp phrases.

Element On/Off is not a performing control, but a construction control like naming an Element Waveform, it is not something you would be doing while performing.

Hope that helps.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 1
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
yes that helps! i wanted to use the Element On/Off for performance but it wasn't designed that way as you said, but there is another way that i did find to turn on/off elements to be quick and that is to use the "All" screen which is a list and i can easily turn on/off elements in one screen.. thank you badmister!
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 2
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Or you can use scenes. You can designate different scenes with custom combinations of element on/off properties.

Or you could map assignable knobs to work like switches where you only quarter turn and the only outputs 0 or 127.

How many elements are planning on individually (independently) control?

Another option is to use some expensive MIDI pedal that has a bunch of buttons and let's you send custom SysEx. It'd need to support programming what "pushed" button sends us "released" button. Each button could be assigned to your choice PART's element.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 3
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Or you can use scenes. You can designate different scenes with custom combinations of element on/off properties.


Hey Jason.. I tried this and you can't do it at the element level for a scene... arghh.. was hoping this would work
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 4
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Was a typo - I meant PART "on/off" using MUTE. Because, presumably, the original request would work if MUTE could be saved with a Performance. It cannot, it's temporary. But scenes can which indirectly press MUTE.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 5
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Introduced with the Motif XS back in 2007, and continued in MOX, Motif XF, MOXF, and all the S-XS series, is the XA CONTROL. Expanded Articulation Control. This is a method developed to, in a musically useful, sonically invisible way, turn Elements ON and OFF on demand. Their function has been linked to the [AsSw1] and [AsSw2].

When we say "musically useful, sonically invisible" this means that unlike a MUTE, the sound is not cutoff. A MUTE by definitions stops audio from reaching the output, so the end of the sound is immediate, final, and quite abrupt. By contrast, the XA CONTROL switches allow you to musically control which Element is sounding and no matter when you make the switch, the sound is not cutoff... you can begin to play the newly selected set of Elements with the next key press. Designed to allow smooth transitions between sounds when performing - *how* you play, which condition the AsSwitch is in, even alternating and random can be selected. Elements can be Grouped to have similar behaviors within their Group.

XA CONTROL can be used to switch between Elements, it can be used to switch between entire instruments. You can define what it does...
MUTE is for engineers - an engineer at a mixer will mute channels during playback
XA CONTROL is for musicians - it is a musical control over what sounds and how it sounds, without interruption of sounding notes!

Hope that helps.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 6
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
yes i understand what you are saying BadMister.. but the problem is there is only 2 Assign buttons but 8 elements to deal with..

I am using XA Control in this situation too but for a different purpose.. my setup for a particular part is linked to an arp that plays a hihat pattern and my elements looks like this..

Cycle - HiHat Close 1
Cycle - HiHat Close 2
Cycle - HiHat Open
Random - Shaker

So you see I am cycling through each hihat with a random shaker but then if i turnoff the Open HiHat, the pattern gives me a totally different feel which is what i want and it's great for buildups or changes.. yes i can mute but it will revert back to the original list when i change parts.. if you can please tell Yamaha to make those mutes permanent :)
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 7
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Seems like you're sort of "OK" with the controls within one performance (even if not exactly what you want) -- but how do see using MUTE between two performances? In my usage, I want the MUTEs to change to however I saved them in the new Performance and not stay the same as I left them in the last Performance.

What's the scenario which has the next Performance want to inherit the state of MUTEs as the last Performance?

I strive, for each "tune" I perform, to keep all of my sounds for that tune within one Performance. If I need to mute/unmute PARTs - then I stay within the same Performance.

In the past, I had less "PART" resources - so I would switch Performances in the middle of a tune and sometimes switch back to the original Performance (because the outro is the same as the intro). What I did was made sure the 2nd performance was "ready to go" with mutes set as they needed to be for that switch. Now -- if I wanted to switch back to the 1st Performance -- but use a different set of "mutes" - I may COPY that Performance to a 3rd Performance and switch back to that 3rd Performance that had the right set of MUTEs set for the 3rd Performance.

You may use the keyboard completely different than I do - so I'm open to learning about a common scenario you use which would pull for having the MUTE buttons be a SYSTEM setting that does not change when you change Performances.

You said, however, "PART" and I assumed this meant "Performance" -- but maybe you mean you're really switching out a PART (by using the Single-PART MSB/LSB+PC).
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 8
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I'm using a Monome 64 to switch Elements on/off within a Performance (via MaxMsp for correct MIDI commands to Montage).

Gives me 64 buttons, one per Element :)
Attachments (1)
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 9
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation


You said, however, "PART" and I assumed this meant "Performance" -- but maybe you mean you're really switching out a PART (by using the Single-PART MSB/LSB+PC).



Hi Jason.. Yes when I said "PART" I meant the 16 availale parts in a performance..

Your technique for switching Performances by making duplicates with different settings is a good idea though..
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 10
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I'm using a Monome 64 to switch Elements on/off within a Performance (via MaxMsp for correct MIDI commands to Montage).

Gives me 64 buttons, one per Element :)


Hey this is a good idea.. can you share with us the details of how this is done with this hardware and sysex messages?
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 11
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
MaxMSP is software which would require a PC - not sure what your requirements are in that arena. I haven't dug into the Novation LaunchPad Pro - but using custom firmware - you may be able to get to a hardware-only solution which does the same thing.

Wish Launchpad Mini had a similar open-source firmware option as the mini is $200 less.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 12
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Hey this is a good idea.. can you share with us the details of how this is done with this hardware and sysex messages?


Firstly you need the Monome files from their website applicable to MaxMsp. Then you need the 64 SysEx strings that will switch Elements On/Off. Then you need to patch it all up.. Not really sure how much detail you're after. I think everything needed regarding patching in Max relating to this is shown in the attached screenshots.
Attachments (2)
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 13
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
yes i understand what you are saying BadMister.. but the problem is there is only 2 Assign buttons but 8 elements to deal with..

I am using XA Control in this situation too but for a different purpose.. my setup for a particular part is linked to an arp that plays a hihat pattern and my elements looks like this..

Cycle - HiHat Close 1
Cycle - HiHat Close 2
Cycle - HiHat Open
Random - Shaker

So you see I am cycling through each hihat with a random shaker but then if i turnoff the Open HiHat, the pattern gives me a totally different feel which is what i want and it's great for buildups or changes.. yes i can mute but it will revert back to the original list when i change parts.. if you can please tell Yamaha to make those mutes permanent :)

Since that is not likely going to happen.... why not try the XA CONTROL. Your comment that there are “only 2 Assign buttons” is curious. I don’t have a complete picture of what you are doing... but if you are Cycling through closed hihats, and want to remove the Open Hihat, there are certainly more ways to do it than just the AsSwitches turning Elements On/Off. An individual Element can be assigned to have its Level turned down (controlled)... you should explore this more... the Control matrix is where MONTAGE is deepest...

That’s just my recommendation, AWM2, is a very mature technology... XA Control was developed for the AWM2 spec specifically to address individual control over Elements while performing - I explained the difference between a Mute and XA Control ... I don’t believe you have near exhausted the possibilities. MONTAGE kicks individual Element control up a couple of notches. You can use the Super Knob/AsgnKnob matrix to change the relationship/mix of your eight Elements, and, conveniently, each Part has eight Knobs! ...and 16 Control Sets to work within the Part.

Just some ideas to explore:
_ You can dedicate a Part AssignKnob to each Element to Control ElemLevel. Real-time access/control
_ You can link those you want vary in real time to SuperKnob movement.
Remember change does not have to be linear. As you turn the Super Knob from minimum toward maximum, you can individually have each of the eight Elements follow its own mix curve... it does not have to be just louder/softer... you can setup a movement that at each o’clock on the dial you have a different balance of your eight Elements. (Great for changing the feel)! This is one of those deep MONTAGE ‘rabbit holes’... truly you can create to heart’s content.
_ You can then automate the movement of the Super Knob so it all happens by itself.
_ You can “snapshot” the Super Knob position in Scenes so that you can instantly recall a specific mix (drop the hihat out? That’s easy...)
_ Because 8Z ‘kits’ receive Note-off info, “Gate Time” as an Arp Play FX is in play.
_ SuperKnob Position [1]/[2] buttons can be used instantly recall min or max SK position which can be used to instantly remove Elements from the mix

It’s easy to just buy more gear... and waiting for a feature that may never come is no solution either (that to me says you’re defeated)... our function here on YamahaSynth is to help you get more out of what you already own (now), and make sure you don’t overlook a wealth of possibilities already available. I just spent about ten minutes playing around with an 8Z ‘Drum kit’ and the possibilities are boundless...

Hint: If the AsgnKnob-SuperKnob method is not your thing... a wealth of possibilities sits behind the door labeled “Motion Sequencer” -think of this as controller automation; an arpeggiator for parameter control - just FYI.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 14
  • Page :
  • 1


There are no replies made for this post yet.
Be one of the first to reply to this post!
2018 © Yamaha Corporation of America and Yamaha Corporation. All rights reserved.