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  1. Clive
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. Thursday, 04 August 2016
Auto Power Off doesn't seem to work on my Montage 6.

I know the manual states that "Depending on the instrument status, the power may not turn off automatically......., etc, but I'm wondering why it doesn't?

I have the Montage connected via the USB to Host terminal, to a Mac running Logic Pro X. It doesn't seem to matter whether Logic is running or not.

The only thing I can assume is the USB connection is keeping it awake for some reason.
Responses (13)
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
If something is in the instrument's Edit buffer (an edit that you've made, but not yet stored) the Montage will not turn itself off. I believe there is a blue flag icon that denotes this status.

I have not tested this myself... But
If you are connected to a computer, that would/should keep it awake... The Montage can be a 32-in/6-out audio interface for your computer. It can take over all sound card duties for your computer, so you would expect it to remain alert.

In general, musicians should disable any power saving routines for the computer when using it for music recording. Those power saver things are for generally for business users, not for gamers or musicians! They can wreck havoc some times trying to re-establish external communication.

When you connect the Montage to an active host, the Montage is 'aware'. The role of the 5-pin jacks change as the Montage becomes a USB-MIDI interface for one external device when connected (To Host) to a computer. So I would expect it to maintain PowerOn status when connected.

You may want to test what happens after the computer is powered down.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 1
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Bad Mister, thanks for the advice.

Since I posted I have tried a few things. I only got the Montage 2 days ago and installed the Yamaha/Steinberg driver and the 111 Firmware updater.

After posting my thread I decided to try the 110 Firmware updater instead. With that installed the Power Off function worked correctly. So I then installed the 111 updater again and the Power Off function worked OK a few times and then stopped working. With both versions of firmware I had the computer running (I never sleep the computer, just the monitors) and the USB cable connected.

The Super Knob brightness setting don't hold after a restart either, but I think I read somewhere that it is normal. All the other System settings seem to stay as I've set them after a reboot though.

I have also tried with and without the USB cable connected and with and without a USB Drive attached, but it's still the same.

I have run all of the Initialize options, but no change.

One further question to do with saved settings;

In the Quick Setup routing are changes meant to be global or performance specific?

In Logic I have 16 stereo audio tracks setup with their inputs from the Montage set to 1-2, 3-4 etc. In the Quick Setup I use the "Audio Rec on DAW" preset which works fine. (I know you say don't necessarily use the presets, but whilst I'm still learning this thing it works for me).

If however I change to a different Performance, the routing seems to default back to the "Standalone" Quick Setup preset. If I save the Performance it will keep the "Audio Rec on DAW" preset whilst using that Performance, but lose it when I go to a non saved performance.

I will try your suggestion of switching off the computer as well.

EDIT:

I tried it with the computer turned off and the Power Off works, so I guess it is to do with the USB connection being active in some way.

I don't use the Montage as an audio interface though. I have the outputs from Logic going to my Apogee audio interface and from there to my Mains. I don't use the analogue outs on the Montage at all.

Its a pity coz I have the Montage permanently connected to a computer in my home studio and that is the only place I will be using it. I just wanted to use the Power Off setting on 2 hours in case I forgot to switch the Montage off when finished. The computer runs 24/7.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 2
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
In the Quick Setup routing are changes meant to be global or performance specific?
They are global. Global settings are found in Utility.

In Logic I have 16 stereo audio tracks setup with their inputs from the Montage set to 1-2, 3-4 etc. In the Quick Setup I use the "Audio Rec on DAW" preset which works fine. (I know you say don't necessarily use the presets, but whilst I'm still learning this thing it works for me).
Please, quote me correctly... Don't use the preset in lieu of learning whether or not they do what you need. Just because the "AUDIO RECORD ON DAW" sets up recording does mean it will be right for what you need to do.

A template (and especially this particular one) is to point out what can be done, it is NOT anticipated that this will work for each person - in every situation. That is very very unlikely. No one can know what you need to route to separate audio tracks. Every Project is going to be different. Learn to route signal so that you optimize it for YOUR music.

I don't use the Montage as an audio interface though. I have the outputs from Logic going to my Apogee audio interface and from there to my Mains. I don't use the analogue outs on the Montage at all.
If you don't use the analog outputs of the Montage at all how do you get signal from Montage into Logic?
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 3
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Bad Mister,

I understand how to route audio (and midi to a limited extent) within Logic.

What I am trying to find out is how to set up the Montage routing so that it renders each part of a performance to separate USB pairs regardless of the Performance I select.

For example;

If I select the"Marine Life" Performance in the Live Set (Best of Montage 2), by default it outputs all 5 parts to Main L&R "Standalone" in Utility_Quick Setup. In Logic the input only appears as all parts combined in my first (of 16) Audio Track (which is set to input 1-2) .

If I then go to Utilities_Quick Setup and select "Audio Rec on DAW", then the Parts are now routed to USB 1-30 in addition to Main L&R. In logic the individual Parts are now routed to the first 5 audio tracks (Input 1-2, 3-4 …etc), which is what I want.

If I then select a different Performance or reboot the Montage, the Montage routing defaults back to the first scenario "Standalone" routing and only appears in the first Audio Track in Logic.

I was trying to find out whether the Quick Setup preset "Audio Rec on DAW" preset should stay in effect after a reboot or Performance change?

Thanks and apologies for misquoting you.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 4
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
They are Quick because they are applied when recall the template. They are applied at the moment you recall them

Logic (I see) does not name the audio IN ports (properly). If it lists them as 1-32, you are not seeing the significance of Ports 1&2 which represent the "MAIN L&R" while the rest are named "USB1" thru "USB30" in the Montage.

Correct, the Montage rightfully defaults to outputting signal to the "Main L&R".
If and when you are ready to record Audio to a DAW you select the audio routing template to switch to the default routing configuration that YOU design.
No it does not change all 2560 potential Performances - just the current 1
If the factory default is what you require, then simply recall it.

I recommend you work with Montage for several sessions and see if that is what you require. I've customized mine for how I like to work. When I recall the "Audio Rec on DAW" it sets up with my template. I basically set the audio outputs as I go.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 5
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
OK. Thanks for the clarification. I will modify my recording procedure to suit.

Lots more to learn about the Montage yet, but I'm loving it so far.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 6
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Bad Mister wrote: (...) If you don't use the analog outputs of the Montage at all how do you get signal from Montage into Logic?


Using the Mac's Audio Midi Setup application, I created an aggregate audio device, combining my UA Apollo and Montage into a single 'audio interface' which Logic recognizes. The Apollo has 28 outs, so the Montage's audio channels start at 29, the pair 29-30 being its main L&R.

I only bought my Montage 6 yesterday, so there's still a lot of work, exploring and studying to be done, but using an aggregate audio device seems to me to be the simplest option on Mac (if you're already working with a dedicated audio interface) to get the Montage's audio into Logic without using the synth's analog outputs.

_
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 7
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Hi Plet,

Thanks, I have already been using the Montage as part of an aggregate device (Montage, Apogee and Metric Halo) for the input, (Apogee) for the output.

I've discovered a lot about the Montage in the last couple of days and now have a much better understanding of it's routing and how best to set it up for my recording process.

Still a lot to learn, but my understanding of its interaction with Logic is progressing nicely now.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 8
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Hi Clive,

Making progress here too. Although baby steps would still be the most fitting description for how I make it.

My biggest head-scratcher at the moment is LOCAL OFF, which, I feel, in a keyboard a sophisticated as the Montage should offer way more options. Like, for example: only have the keyboard itself set to LOCAL OFF — i.o.w. no internal triggering of notes —, and leave the rest of the synth LOCAL ON. Because, as I see it (although I very well might be wrong), as soon as you switch to LOCAL OFF, you loose a substantial amount of the Montage's controlling powers. Which is a bit of a shame.
(I'm trying to figure out how to make a contraption in Logic's Environment that could achieve the same result, but I'm getting nowhere with that.)

And, to get back on topic: AUTO POWER OFF seems a pretty useless function (when the Montage is part of a studio set-up, that is), if the synth is constantly kept awake anyway by whatever digital whispers might be happening on the USB-connection between the DAW and the Montage.
Then again, shutting the Montage down and then powering it on again, gets Logic all confused (to the point of switching audio drivers), with the Montage being part of the aggregate audio device and all that. (And when the Montage is powered down, all of Montage's midi ports disappear as well of course. Although that's not such a big problem.)

In short: still a whole lot to learn and discover, yes. But I'm loving every minute of it. Great sounding synth.

_
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 9
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
My biggest head-scratcher at the moment is LOCAL OFF, which, I feel, in a keyboard a sophisticated as the Montage should offer way more options. Like, for example: only have the keyboard itself set to LOCAL OFF — i.o.w. no internal triggering of notes —, and leave the rest of the synth LOCAL ON. Because, as I see it (although I very well might be wrong), as soon as you switch to LOCAL OFF, you loose a substantial amount of the Montage's controlling powers. Which is a bit of a shame.
(I'm trying to figure out how to make a contraption in Logic's Environment that could achieve the same result, but I'm getting nowhere with that.)
LOCAL CONTROL is a function in MIDI (as in universal throughout all of MIDI) of the Keyboard transmitting. When Local is ON, the keyboard is in touch with the "local" (as in) built-in synthesizer engine. When Local is OFF, the keyboard which always generates MIDI commands will only send them OUT via MIDI. It is a simple thing in every DAW, including Logic, to echo back (sometimes called "Thru";) the data back to the synth so that it triggers the tone engine.

"leave the rest of the synth LOCAL ON" is a non-sensical statement, since the synth tone engine is not Local on or off. It's a function of the KEYBOARD.
KEYBOARD = keys that trigger notes, controllers like MW, PB Wheel, Faders, pedals, knobs, ribbon, breath control, etc., etc., etc.

The synth/tone generator cannot be Local on or off, it's just the passive receiving device in all of this. I'm not exactly sure why you have concluded that if such a thing existed it would solve your problem. The Montage keys and controllers are always sending data, you determine if it reaches the internal tone generator directly (LOCAL ON) or indirectly (LOCAL OFF) after it traverses the DAW (Logic).

This exists so that the MIDI messages can be recorded in the DAW software, the echo back to the source is so you can hear what you're doing!
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 10
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I appreciate the reply, Bad Mister, and perhaps I phrased my problem wrongly, but I do know what LOCAL ON/OFF means.
LOCAL ON: all instructions resulting from any physical action you perform on the keyboard (pressing a key, moving a knob, wheel or fader, …) get sent directly to the sound generator of the synth (and to the MIDI Out, if the synth is so configured).
LOCAL OFF: all those instructions get sent, as MIDI data, via the MIDI Out port, either to your DAW (from where they are sent back to your synth) or to some other piece of receptive hardware.

The problem is basically that, as soon as you switch to LOCAL OFF — to avoid the unpleasant, phasey doubling of notes the moment your DAW sends the data back into the Montage — you also sacrifice more than half of the Montage’s controls, incl. the all-important Super Knob, faders and Scene-buttons.

How, for example, am I to play (with the Montage connected to my DAW), say, the ‘CFX+FM EP’ Performance, wanting complete access to all the Performance’s controls, but without the dreaded note-doubling?
Or, other conundrum: how can I still change the Scenes of the ‘RD 1 Gallery’ Performance, when, at the same time, I don’t want any note-doubling and thus have to set the Montage to LOCAL OFF?

Maybe these problems need to be addressed differently, rather than with LOCAL ON/OFF, I don’t know. What I do know is that, at some point in the stream (the MIDI-flow between the Montage and the DAW), some sort of filter which stops “the triggering of notes” to enter back into the Montage would be a welcome thing.
Any sort of solution that doesn't limit the hands-on capabilities of the Montage when it is connected to a DAW. That's basically it, really.

Unless we’re supposed, that is, to constantly hop over to the Utility>QuickSetup window and make the necessary changes there depending on what we want to do? Which, frankly, I hope isn’t the answer to these problems, because having to constantly do that, takes quite a bit of joy out of working with this incredible synth.

_
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 11
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
The problem is basically that, as soon as you switch to LOCAL OFF — to avoid the unpleasant, phasey doubling of notes the moment your DAW sends the data back into the Montage — you also sacrifice more than half of the Montage’s controls, incl. the all-important Super Knob, faders and Scene-buttons.
That is not true. And is a setup problem that YOU are having. Not true for a properly configured system.

How, for example, am I to play (with the Montage connected to my DAW), say, the ‘CFX+FM EP’ Performance, wanting complete access to all the Performance’s controls, but without the dreaded note-doubling?
Asking the question is the first step towards success. Please see and follow the following setup:

Use QUICK SETUP #1: MIDI REC on DAW (this eliminates doubling by turning Local Control Off)
Create a MIDI Track in your DAW with Montage Port1 as Input, Montage Port1 as Output.
Set the MIDI Track to Output Channel = "Any" so that it echoes back the channel coming in.
You must select this track in order for communication to take place.
Make sure your DAW is not set to filter System Exclusive (most likely the error in your setup). Yes, it probably defaults to being filtered. Unfilter it and get to work...

Or, other conundrum: how can I still change the Scenes of the ‘RD 1 Gallery’ Performance, when, at the same time, I don’t want any note-doubling and thus have to set the Montage to LOCAL OFF?
This is handled as well. Really, setup 101.

What DAW are you using. Once you setup properly you will hurdle this and you can get to work.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 12
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I stand corrected, Bad Mister. Turns out, as it usually does, that you’re right.

What I had overlooked to do in Logic, until a few minutes ago, was to make an additional cable connection between the Input Monitor Object and the Montage’s Instrument Object. (This is Logic Environment speak.) Without that connection, all MIDI data were sent nicely back to the Montage, but for some reason SysEx info wasn’t. With that extra connection however, SysEx now makes it through as well, back into the Montage. Very nice. Problem hurdled.
Had to insert a Transformer object as well though (in that newly added connection, that is) to filter out the Note On triggers & CC’s because all those data are already present in the MIDI-data that is echoed back by LogicPro.

Phew.

Anyway, thanks a lot, Bad Mister.
And thanks to whoever it was (in some other Montage/Logic thread) for suggesting that additional parrallel connection.

_
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 13
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