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  1. Eyal
  2. Vanity Monster Sherlock Holmes The Voice
  3. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  4. Sunday, 22 January 2017
Hi all,

I'm a long time DX7 user. for a long time I've been using the PLG150-DX card in my Motif ES7 (which I still have because I love the combinations with the PLG150-AN).

I have the Montage and I love it.

I would love to load some of the PLG150-DX patches on the Montage. I scanned all over the internet and got almost every cart .syx available - I edit my sounds in Dexed.

I couldn't find some of my favorite patches on the PLG150-DX anywhere. The "DUKE EP" or "WINWOOD" lead are only on it.

I did eventually find some of the PLG150-DX patches on different names on "Super-DX Collection" by EasySounds. so I bought the pack. "DUKE EP" is called there "DUKE PIANO", but many of the other patches aren't there.

I have a Kronos and the Kronos is able to load DX7 .syx files on its own MOD-7 engine. I found the complete PLG150-DX cart for the Kronos as PCG file. That would mean that it exists somewhere.

Attached screenshot. Hopefully someone is able to help me locate the .syx of the PLG150-DX, as someone had found in the past for the Kronos PCG.

Please don't tell me to look in other places, other carts, different names. All I want is the PLG150-DX cart. I'm used to it for many years.

Thanks so much in advance.

http://i.imgur.com/QJbTIYF.png
Responses (8)
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I do not have a deep understanding of Korg's architecture - but I thought the "EXi" engine in Korg was their sample-based technology ("ROMpler" - like AWM2 is to Yamaha) - so what I see pictured in the PCG file are samples and not MOD7 (Korg's version of FM-X) based. So the PCG file - I do not think is similar to loading a SysEx file as much as it is sampling a keyboard with the PLG150-DX installed. You would therefore end up with something more static than SysEx loaded "patches" which could be tweaked on the Korg's MOD7 engine - which Korg does support loading the SysEx while Yamaha supports converting the SysEx first with their online tool, followed by installing the converted patch(es).

I do follow what you're asking - but wanted to be sure it was clear what was on the table. Maybe I'm wrong and someone more versed in either the PCG tool or Korg architecture can steer my feedback to something more correct.

I'm pretty sure that the feedback you've gotten that the PLG boards do not support SysEx dumps is true and that the fact that someone, for the Korg, ended up sampling them rather than making proper MOD7 files is telling.

The best answer I see is from Yamaha concerning the PLG board and its ability to dump the presets:

Source: https://yamahasynth.com/forum/does-fs1r-make-plg150-dx-in-s90es-redundant

Question (Zach):

I understand that both the PLG DX and FS1R can receive DX7 dumps, but can the DX Simulator somehow dump DX7 data to the FS1R?


Answer (BM):

No. The PLG150-DX is a passive device, it has no means of dumping sounds. True, the both can receive Bulk Dumps from the DX7. The PLG150-DX is passive. It requires a host product - and has no means to output anything but audio.


Even though the PLG150-DX lets you create your own "patches" - this must be done as a user voice. The presets all you can edit is a short list of parameters in the XG and DX parameters: Mono/Poly mode, pitch bend/step, portamento switch/time/step/mode - and that's it.

What's interesting about the PLG150-DX is that it does a more faithful emulation of the DX7 in the area of glissando and pitch bend considering I see the step and mode functions while FM-X (Montage) doesn't support these. I'm not sure what Korg does in this area.

By the way - the PLG docs page 6 starts a pretty good intro to FM synthesis http://www.ym2149.com/PLG150DXE.pdf

The same doc shows the alg. number for each preset - so if you find a DX7 patch with a similar name - you can use the page 36 "A" (alg number) to match up and see if its the same.

When you look at the list of names within the bank, you see there are "standard" names - meaning the PLG150-DX isn't the exclusive device which has this patch. Take "Vics EP". The FS1R shows "Vics EP" in the program list. And I believe the FS1R can do dumps. So probably somewhere out there are the FS1R dumps floating around and a means to take a look at the dump with an offline editor. I found dumps of the FS1R and a file 3_114.syx which has the "Vics EP" voice (3=Pre C, "114" is zero based - starts with zero - while the FS1R docs start with 1 - so add 1 = PGM # 115).

So at least to find syx files that match is possible for a random selected voice - some of this you may have already been doing. But if I were to go further for this "Vics EP" example, I would load the SYX file into an FS1R editor and look at the settings for the operators and duplicate that - expecting that many would not use the extra features FS1R brings to the table - at least ones the PLG150-DX would use since the PLG150-DX doesn't support formants or the extra set of operators.

You seem to have mentioned a couple of patches you were able to find elsewhere - perhaps a complete listing of the patches you want but cannot find would provide a better "bounty" for the group to attack.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 1
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Jason wrote:

I do not have a deep understanding of Korg's architecture - but I thought the "EXi" engine in Korg was their sample-based technology ("ROMpler" - like AWM2 is to Yamaha) - so what I see pictured in the PCG file are samples and not MOD7 (Korg's version of FM-X) based. .


Thanks for the reply.
EXi stands for any one of the synth engines the Kronos provides - could be AL-1, STR-1 or MOD-7.
HD-1 is the equivalent of AWM2 in the Kronos.

The patches in the screenshot above are indeed FM synthesis and not sampling. They're all loaded as an EXi MOD-7 bank in my Kronos.

The only place where I saw the same patch names is in the PDF of the FS1R, that's true.

I'm sure some people in this forum who were very heavy into FM back in the day can probably help with something.
I really want the entire bank of sounds, not just part of it..

The PLG150-DX might be passive, I understand. but the fact is that the PLG150-DX banks exist. I have it in a different format (converted to the Kronos MOD-7 FM engine). there must be a way to get it.
Those are the actual patches from the PLG150-DX so I know it's out there. It might not be directly dumped from a PLG board, but it exists, for sure. I have the complete set on my Kronos as I showed above which is identical to what I have on my own personal PLG150-DX in my Motif ES.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 2
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Thanks for the clarification on EXi. Some users wanted the ability to automatically convert DX7 SysEx patches to Korg's PCG format. According to the author of the PCG editor, the format of the MOD7 portion is proprietary or otherwise wrapped up in licensing restrictions - so this could not be done. Therefore, this data was manually entered on the Korg to begin with then saved as a PCG. To get to how this was done would take finding the author of who did this and find out what their source was.

Some sources show the DX200 as having an identical set as the PLG-150DX. I am not sure if the DX200 can dump internal voices - but have not been able to see any SYX files for the DX200. The CD that shipped with the PLG-150DX does have a MIDI file for loading up the memory slot(s) with a set of patches - so those (including the Duke EP) are available in .MID data that could be stripped to form SYX files for each of those. This represents a subset of what you're looking for.

That's the best I can do at the moment. If Yamaha didn't do anything tricky with the PLG-150DX ROM parts - then I suppose one could desolder, use a ROM burner/reader to read the data, and get the set that way. I am just speculating at some possibilities of how the data was found to begin with.

Really the easiest process at this point is to load up the set on the Korg and manually record the data (all settings) for each patch and then build a set either with a DX7 offline editor or on Montage. It's easier than tracking down a PLG-150DX so you can desolder parts in the off-chance that the data is there in "clear view".
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 3
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
well, I wrote my message hoping someone has it.

after all, the person who loaded the sysex into the Kronos had it. so it must be out there.

I know some people hang around those forums are extremely notable in all things DX.
maybe it's something people like Bad Mister or Peter from EasySounds might have. maybe not. I'm trying my luck here!
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 4
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Sorry, I don't know what Bank you are talking about. Do you know who make the original?
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 5
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
BM,

The OP's request is for all (the whole enchilada) of the parameters for all of the PLG150-DX board's internal presets. Easiest would be an X7U or X7L that already set this up on Montage, second easiest as an SYX file (dump) for DX to FM-X translation - which (the dump) cannot be done on native hardware due to the nature of the board's architecture.

The original author is Yamaha - although apparently someone manually created a set on the Korg's FM engine - unknown what the source of their information was.

I imagine, having a Korg that can load the PCG file one could manually "write down" all the settings on the Korg and transfer them over. Then claim some fame for having "ported" the sounds over such that the rival keyboard was not the only hardware one can find with a PLG150-DX board "clone".

However, I believe the request is for an easier path than this 3rd option.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 6
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
so, any ideas about this soundbank?
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 7
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
As I recall the PLG150-DX had some 912 Presets ... And it has no facility to dump its sounds _ it was a passive plug-in board.
I will research it but don't hold any hope finding that data for loading. I have no idea about whether the Korg data has or had anything to do with the sounds resident on the PLG150-DX
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 8
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