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  1. Tom
  2. Sherlock Holmes The Voice
  3. MONTAGE
  4. Friday, 22 December 2017
OK
I have Spent months on and off looking for answers or guidance to the.
ARP mess on the Montage.
Keep this to. Arps only please.
1. I want to know. When they are going to categorise them. Or. If ARPs are Categorised. How. and where. Step by step.
2. How do We take a montage ARP into a DAW and Edit it?
3. Why? Can You not edit a ARP and save it as a User ARP?
Because. Ask anyone about 10,000 anything's. And it is a nightmare to deal with. Unless you have some kind of organization for them.
So to leave us With this absolute Mess. Is just plain Wrong. No one has time to go through 1000 arps let alone 10,0000.
Responses (8)
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
First, the other thread from 2016 was primarily about creating user ARPs so a question about ARP categorization didn't fit well within that thread. I can see why you were left confused given your particular need/request.

If you take a look at the data list (montage_en_dl_e0.pdf which is contained in the OS updater aka firmware version 1.60 ZIP file), page 84 starts the Arpeggio Type List. You do not have to look at "paper" (the PDF) - but I like to see this to supplement what can be done on the keyboard.

You see that each ARP has a main and sub category. The categorization is not always "perfect" because certainly arps can be used in different contexts other than what is suggested by the categories. However, it is helpful to know which instrument type the category was designed for - as this can be a "cut line" which more quickly gets you to an ARP that works for you.

Sub category tends to be Genre - and this is a YMMV categorization.

Last, the ARP name itself gives reasonable clues on what the ARP does or how it is intended (was programmed) to be used. Since there is a limitation on how long the name can be - the ARP name contains mnemonics/"code" within the name -- and it is helpful to know what some of these character combinations mean. There are other threads involving the Rosetta Stone or "secret decoder ring" of these mnemonics.

See https://yamahasynth.com/forum/arpeggios

Source: above thread - BM
Naming Conventions:
* MA, MB, MC etc. = M is Main section, the second letter indicates the amount of activity. D being more active than section A.
* FA, FB, FC etc. = F is a Fill-in, the second letter indicates the activity
* BA = would be a Break
* IA = would be an Introduction
* EA = would be an Ending


I believe there are other threads.

The thread also shows images of the category search for ARPs which is how you can narrow down the field by selecting main and sub categories -- or by entering in mnemonics (such as "BA" if you're just looking for the A-section breaks) under the text search.

The mess seems overstated since you only have to deal with thousands of ARPs if you choose not to narrow the ARP category search parameters. How you sort through ARPs is hardly any different than how you sort through the performances - and the mechanism / paradigm is almost identical.

Other resources:

https://www.yamahasynth.com/forum/new-moessieurs-video-category-search-arpeggio-french,-subtitle-english
Video

https://yamahasynth.com/forum/arpeggio-category-search
Basic - getting to ARP category search

------------

You cannot edit ARPs in a surgical manner like on Motif due to lack of a sequencer. The sequencer was an important component to editing note duration, gate time, etc. If you want to "edit" a preset ARP - you'll need to play the ARP out MIDI and capture the result in your DAW - or use the performance recorder to generate a MIDI file and then transfer that file (USB) to your PC for editing in a DAW or other notation software that can modify MIDI files.

Once you save your new MIDI file - you can import that back as a user ARP as part of the functions on the performance recorder.

At this point, lamenting the lack of sequencer in Montage isn't going to get much traction on any user ARP workflow with Montage. It's fair to add to the pile if you were one of the power users who "silently" created your own user ARPs. I think the current state of affairs is a mix of people really not using the user ARP feature as well as many users using this feature and not finding any problem/complications/etc - so their use never got reported back to Yamaha "HQ". This probably isn't a huge number - but there are other features still available for narrow audiences (such as microtuning).

What is going to gain, for those wanting to use ARPs, the most traction is to work within the system provided. There is a way - for most (not all) things - to get from point A to B with user ARPs. The only limitation I am currently aware of is that there are ARP types that cannot be generated with the tools provided. Special types that show up as preset ARPs but do not currently have any editor which can produce the files for Montage to consume and gain these "easter egg" type ARP features.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 1
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
First
Thank you for the Quick response. Very, Very helpful.
You may have taken offence of the word 'Mess'.
But the way the forum search works. I was constantly guessing. How to state. What I was searching for. I could give a lot of examples.
But I think you get it. Because. I never found. The one You shared the link for. Hence. Mess.
I really do not care about a Sequencer. And Really. No one should. I have always Created my Sequences. In a DAW. It is so much easier to work in a DAW. Than a onboard Sequencer. Does not mean I do not use one to record in certain Keyboards. Just. From that point. It is in a DAW. Until I am done with it and then load it back in the keyboard.

So I will Suggest 1 more thing. If it doesn't already exist.
Group all ARP(s)/Arpeggiator(s) Answers and Tutorials about ARPs under a Post Heading. That Contains. All the words. That mean ARP.
That way. We do not have to sit thinking. What do they actually call it. Seriously. It has taken me months. To find just this one subject explained.

After getting used to looking them up with. The Way Yamaha Categorised them.
I am Going to want to know. Everything I can do to an ARP. inside the Montage. And how to do it.(If that already exists. Please post a link.).

Thanks again.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 2
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I totally agree with Tom that searching for information can be frustrating. I realise that it would create a workload for someone but is it possible to have archive subject matter categories created so that after a specified time (maybe 10 days) all new posts relating to a subject for example ARPs would be moved to the one heading.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 3
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Hi
To Bad Mister and Jason.
Now I see Why. You Yamaha Employees. Have to keep Fielding. The exact same Questions. Over and Over.
Unlike all other brands Product Forums!
You. Do not Have Sticky Posts. At the Top of Each Forum Category. IE: Like Montage. Is a Forum Category.
So. It Would Be very wise to add them. They would seriously cut down on your Workload And User Confusion. On this Forum.
They Always Stick at the top of Each Synth Category. Can not be Edited or replied to.(Except By Admin.)
And Would be Subjects like:
1. Montage. Motion Control Answers.
2. Montage. ARP Arpeggio Arpeggiators Answers.
3. Montage. News and Update info.
4. Lesions. Motif to Montage Conversions.
Etc.
And. Each Sticky post. Should Contain. The Links. In the proper Learning order. Of All the Questions/Answers
on that Subject. And. Have Already been answered(many times).
That way the Customer. Sees the list. First thing. Does not ask the same question for the 50th time.

This. Also has the added benefit. For a Pre-Buyer. Seeing at first Glance.
A lot of Questions/Answers. They might Also have Prior to Buying.
We know. People have Very short attention spans these days. So head them off at the Pass. So to speak.
You might build it like a FAQ. Edit the posts to Relevant info. Copy, repost And lock them.
Yes it would take some work. But Building it Just once. Is way better than. Over and over for years. For the same question.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 4
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Not offended. Also not affiliated with Yamaha.

I agree that searching for information on the site is not great since the search engine often fails. So I do not use it -- almost ever. Instead, go to a search engine of your choice (I use google) -- and search there. With google, I type:

site:yamahasynth.com SEARCH_TERMS


Where "SEARCH_TERMS" is usually my ID ("jason";) if I'm looking for my own post -- or someone else's name/ID -- or both -- and some other terms like "montage" and "arp" and/or "arpeggio" if looking for that. yamahasynth is well indexed on google - so that works much better than what I've found the forum's search doing.

I (and others) have implicitly asked for sticky topics before.

https://yamahasynth.com/forum/montage-anything-but-lean#reply-12781

September 25 2016, 01:59 AM
I agree there is room for improvement on the website optimization. The lack of "sticky" topics which stay up at the top - such as Yamaha firmware announcement threads - makes things a bit more difficult to find through Yamahasynth.com


I do not see sticky topics coming anytime soon - so I would suggest using a 3rd party search engine and collect together links in a personal "notebook" (text file) -- or even create a message full of links to all the other references if you want to make a sort of pseudo-sticky. If I made one - then I could search for (from a search engine) "site:yamahasynth.com jason arp sticky" -- assuming I named the title of the post "Arp Sticky".

For a different topic - here's a message with a bunch of links (not updated for a while) I made - https://www.yamahasynth.com/forum/request-training-video-for-montage

It was easy to find searching for "site:yamahasynth.com jason video" - it was the 1st search hit for me.

Using a different search term: "site:yamahasynth.com arpeggio montage tutorial" --- returns:

http://yamahasynth.com/apps-2/the-4-track-arpeggio-montage
https://yamahasynth.com/resources/arpeggio-making-101-montage
https://yamahasynth.com/resources/arpeggio-making-101-montage-ii

MONTAGE CONNECT PART II: WORKING WITH USER ARPEGGIOS
http://www.yamahasynth.com/blog/montage-connect-ii

Somewhat useful to read what Motif XF did - there are some similarities in broad strokes
https://www.yamahasynth.com/resources/arpeggios-explored/303-arpeggios-explored

Speaking of - there's a series of "Motif To Montage"

https://yamahasynth.com/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=549:motif-to-montage-part1&Itemid=102
https://yamahasynth.com/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=552:motiftomontage2&Itemid=102
https://yamahasynth.com/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=555:motiftomontage3&Itemid=102

Note - above series doesn't really cover ARPs - but some discussion of arps is on the announcement page of the above series:
https://www.yamahasynth.com/forum/blog-discuss-motif-to-montage-here

Someone being helped fix an ARP after recorded:
https://www.yamahasynth.com/forum/can-i-easily-edit-an-apreggio-i-made-myself

... and on and on.

If you want to create your own ARPs - take a look at the Yamaha supplied tutorials first and maybe mill around the forum (using a search engine to assist) for additional information. Rehash isn't bad either - asking a question that's been asked before. You may get a link to a prior discussion or a new response. Sometimes rephrasing an answer differently is helpful even if the core information is the same.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 5
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Hi to complete all the Jason great work on reporting usefull links, you can find on Moessieurs the Generality page about arpeggio:

http://www.moessieurs.com/arpeggio-base-montage.html

Use the top banner google translator tool to translate in your native langage, not perfect but enough good to understand.

I will finish this week the last FM-X Moessieurs video and after a series of videos about using arpeggios will come ;)
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 6
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Thanks Jason and Joel.
I personally. Do not want to make my own ARPS. Unless I start making 'OFF World' Music.
And Jason. You are so involved. I assumed you Were part of Yamaha. My bad.
This Forum. Is the only Product Forum. I have ever seen. Without Sticky notes.
And it begs the question. Why does. Yamaha. Always.
'Want to Build its own. New Road.
When There are. Already many. Proven Super Highways. To travel on'.
A Analogy of sorts. About this forum site.
Outside of the Theat.
This is a great Forum. People are mostly civil And Informative. A Rare thing on forums these days.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 7
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Hi to finish i have also explain what are Main, Fill, Ending arpeggio..., control arpeggio in my Moessieurs category search arpeggio video:

https://youtu.be/wRGaA7xYy0Y
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 8
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