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  2. Sherlock Holmes The Voice
  3. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  4. Saturday, 27 February 2016
-For me the Arpeggios in MOTIF series is one of its best features. I would like to know how it's been improved?

As an example, It would be great if new Arp types such as Random, Loop and PingPong are added. Also a guitar mode to play guitar strums?
-How convenient it is to create and use Arps in MONTAGE compared to MOTIF and MOX?
-Is the chord detection system in Arps in MONTAGE the same as MOTIF and MOX?
...

-Do drum voices still have the same architecture? In drums, as far as I know, I can't adjust AEG parameters. This would be really nice because at the moment I should duplicate several instances of a same kit for different velocities. This way I can assign velocity to AEG etc. and it will take care of it.
-Round Robin: Does it exist in MONTAGE?
-In MOTIF, every voice has 8 elements. I know the VOICES are eliminated in MONTAGE, but if consider the element architecture, how many elements is every voice in MONTAGE combined of?
-Portamento: can velocity control portamento time in MONTAGE like many VSTs out there?
Responses (9)
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I'll let BM explain but it has 10,000 arps and you can't create your own as of yet. Not sure if you can even edit them.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 1
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
A wrote:

-For me the Arpeggios in MOTIF series is one of its best features. I would like to know how it's been improved?

As an example, It would be great if new Arp types such as Random, Loop and PingPong are added. Also a guitar mode to play guitar strums?
I'm sure I don't know what PingPong is (besides the game called table tennis) you'll need to explain that. Is it a musical term? And since Random, Loop/one shot and Guitar strums are possible in the Motif-series nothing need be "improved" in Montage as far as these are concerned. If Ping Pong is anything like a "trill" (musical term) that already exists as well.

There are several new types of arpeggios Types in Montage. I will not kid you, I have not heard or tried all 10000, so I won't try to list all the new types, without a Data List booklet. It's still too early.

-How convenient it is to create and use Arps in MONTAGE compared to MOTIF and MOX?
Since it has never been convenient nor easy to create (good) arps, (this is very subjective) we can't really answer this question. There is no facility to create your own arps in the Montage itself.

-Is the chord detection system in Arps in MONTAGE the same as MOTIF and MOX?
...
The arps from the Motif and MOX/MOXF series are included in the Montage's 10,000 arpeggio types. The Montage can load Motif XF arps. So yes 'chord detection' is the same.

-Do drum voices still have the same architecture?
There are no Voices in Montage. Drum Kits occupy a single Part of a Performance. And since Motif XF, Motif ES, Motif XS, S90 XS/S70 XS data can be loaded you can assume they follow the same architecture.

In drums, as far as I know, I can't adjust AEG parameters.
That is incorrect, each drum in the MOX, MOXF, and Motif series can be completely adjusted as to AEG. Each Key in a Drum Kit is autonomous, has its on volume, pan, pitch, filter (both a LPF and HPF), amplifier (AEG), and in the Motif XF its own routing to the available assignable outputs. Each drum Key even has its own EQ. We highly recommend you study the Reference Manual before assuming these things do not exist, already.

This would be really nice because at the moment I should duplicate several instances of a same kit for different velocities. This way I can assign velocity to AEG etc. and it will take care of it.
Velocity Sensitivity can be assigned to both filter and to amplifier. If you require assigning velocity to the AEG please study the many 8Z "kits" (8 zone drum Voices) These are created using the so called Normal Voice architecture.

-Round Robin: Does it exist in MONTAGE?
Sorry, I have no idea what Round Robin is (?)

-In MOTIF, every voice has 8 elements. I know the VOICES are eliminated in MONTAGE, but if consider the element architecture, how many elements is every voice in MONTAGE combined of?
In the Motif XF/XS and MOXF a Normal Voice has 8 Elements, a Drum Kit Voice has 73 Elements. There are no Voices in the Montage. A Motif XF Voice is a Single Part Performance in Montage. There are 16 Parts to a Performance. So Full Concert Grand occupies Part 1 of the 16 Parts. Everything else is the same.... 8 Elements per Normal Part, 73 Elements per Drum Part. 8 Operators per FM-X Part.

-Portamento: can velocity control portamento time in MONTAGE like many VSTs out there?
No. I don't believe so.

Hope that helps.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 2
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Thanks Phil.

I'm sure I don't know what PingPong is (besides the game called table tennis) you'll need to explain that. Is it a musical term? And since Random, Loop/one shot and Guitar strums are possible in the Motif-series nothing need be "improved" in Montage as far as these are concerned. If Ping Pong is anything like a "trill" (musical term) that already exists as well.

Random: Play the recorded notes at random order
Loop: If I press note A then B, arp plays all the notes play between A and B
PingPong: If I play A and B, Arp plays all the notes played between A and B then B to A...

But it only makes sense if there is a tool to create new Arps.

Velocity Sensitivity can be assigned to both filter and to amplifier. If you require assigning velocity to the AEG please study the many 8Z "kits" (8 zone drum Voices) These are created using the so called Normal Voice architecture.


Do the 8z kits have only 8 instruments?

In the Motif XF/XS and MOXF a Normal Voice has 8 Elements, a Drum Kit Voice has 73 Elements. There are no Voices in the Montage. A Motif XF Voice is a Single Part Performance in Montage. There are 16 Parts to a Performance. So Full Concert Grand occupies Part 1 of the 16 Parts. Everything else is the same.... 8 Elements per Normal Part, 73 Elements per Drum Part. 8 Operators per FM-X Part.

Are the elements able to interact? for example, in MOTIF VOICE architecture, I can define some elements as random or cycle etc. If MONTAGE has only performances, can VOICE elements between every parts interact with each other?
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 3
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Do the 8z kits have only 8 instruments?
Yes, most drummers do not have 8- piece kits.
Please explore your keyboard. You can create multiple kits. If you need to control the AEG of the Kick and Snare, for example, make a 2 instrument kit. I have on occasion created a single instrument "kit". You are thinking to thin... Broaden your outlook, use the technology for what you need.

Perhaps this will help:
Drum Kit envelopes are different from Normal Voice envelopes. Because drum and percussion instruments behave fundamentally different from musical instruments. A whole note to a violin means to continue to sound for that duration. A whole note to a drummer means don't hit anything else during that time!
Drums and percussion instrument do not require a sustain portion and play their entire captured audio without you having to hold down a key. When editing a drum kit you will find a Key parameter that allows the drum assigned to that key to ignore note off. Experiment with this and you will quickly feel a major difference... When RECEIVE NOTE OFF = OFF try playing with that sound. Most keyboard players remain completely unaware of this behavior until it's not there. (It's an "aha moment";).
Normal Voice instruments have envelopes that require a finger on the key to continue, and will advance to the Release segment when you release the key. This difference in fundamental theory of operation means if you need more control over a specific percussion sound, place it in a Normal User Voice... all drums and percussion sounds do not have to be in the Voice, or on the same track, if you start thinking out of the box, continue. Don't place unwieldy limitations on yourself.

Random: Play the recorded notes at random order
No, can't see any use for this musically, speaking. If I *recorded* the notes I want them to play as recorded. Recorded notes playback as recorded on your Yamaha hardware. Random in the arp means the notes you are triggering will play in random order, but if you RECORD them they playback as recorded.

Loop: If I press note A then B, arp plays all the notes play between A and B
There is only A# between note A and note B (?)... Loop in Yamaha-speak allows the pattern of notes in the arp to cycle. If a two measure phrase it will play again and again. If Loop is set to Off the two measure phrase will play once.

PingPong: If I play A and B, Arp plays all the notes played between A and B then B to A...
still only A# in between - for an arp to do that simply hold the three notes down and use the Arp: UpDwn1oct.
Simple arpeggio (traditional types like up, down, down/up, up/down, etc., etc., are found in the Seq > General category).
Yamaha arp phrases go far, far beyond this to include actual musical phrases, strums, trills, drum grooves, even controller data like Expression, pitch bends, filter settings, etc., etc., etc.

Sounds like you've spent far too much time in some software program. If you are going to use hardware, I highly recommend you not bring along the 'baggage' of some other system. Try to explore what is on offer in the hardware, then you'll find that instead of using terminology that might be used differently you can start to get creative in the new system. Same going from hardware to software, don't bring your hardware 'baggage' to the world of software. If you like their definitions of PingPong (which I still don't get), Loop and Random then find a way to integrate hardware and software. Don't let it weigh you down. You wind up getting one systems terminology mixed up with another's.

Hope that helps.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 4
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Phil, I am pretty sure that "A" and "B" stand for "first note" and "another note", not actual note names.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 5
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Of course it helps Phil.

Sounds like you've spent far too much time in some software program. If you are going to use hardware, I highly recommend you not bring along the 'baggage' of some other system. Try to explore what is on offer in the hardware, then you'll find that instead of using terminology that might be used differently you can start to get creative in the new system. Same going from hardware to software, don't bring your hardware 'baggage' to the world of software. If you like their definitions of PingPong (which I still don't get), Loop and Random then find a way to integrate hardware and software. Don't let it weigh you down. You wind up getting one systems terminology mixed up with another's.


My intention is not to bring a "baggage" of some other system but If I don't ask it how can I figure out the equivalents?

-By A and B I don't mean the actual notes, just start and end notes. So PingPong will be going from the first note to the second played note and back (For a live performance, I was hoping to have this and Loop to simulate different articulations).

The reason why I'm asking about ARPs is because I haven't found an equivalent of MOTIF Arps in Cubase(LE) or Logic (I'm still learning). So I hope MONTAGE would be a complement to software.

All I want to know is how well MONTAGE can fit my current setup. I guess for every musician here, depending on how they use their hardware, some features are more important. For me, as I use software and hardware together, I hope MONTAGE compliment my software setup.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 6
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Hi,

I've searched also for the ping-pong/loop arpeggio effect. The arpeggio can be found under the name "MA_U/D B Oct1" in "Syn Comp/General" category, this give you the exact thing you were searching for.

And if you don't found the needed arpeggio, you can record your own (there is 256 arpeggios slot for user if i understand this correctly).
You can check the FAQ "Montage 6/7/8: How To Create User Arps", but it is partially incomplete: you need first to record a song (use record then play button, play the arpeggio, then hit stop). Then follow the faq from the step 4. The "User Arp" entry will appear when you edit the name of the "Song name", not performance name.

And if you want to see more capability of the arpeggio creation, check the Blog "MASTERING MONTAGE: ARPEGGIO MAKING 101, PART I"

I hope this will help newbies like me!

Mathieu
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 7
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Mathieu
What is "MA_U/D B Oct1" in "Syn Comp/General" category?????
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 8
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
@ Mathieu and Tom
As you have brought back an older thread, it reminds us to point out how important it is to keep your MONTAGE firmware updated as features are added. Since this thread, the ability to create Arpeggio data (either from loaded MIDI data or data you create with the on board Recorder).

In general, the code for Arp abbreviations:
First character “M” = Main
Second character “A” = complexity, (A simple through D complex)
“U/D” = Up and Down
“B” = there are two up/down variations, A and B, one repeats the highest note the other does not.
“Oct 1” = one octave.

First characters:
M Main
F Fill-in
B Break
I Intro
E Ending

These titles are suggestions, obviously if you think a Fill-in works as a Main section you are free to use them for whatever you wish.

When looking through Arpeggios if you choose a similarly named Drum Arp and Bass Arp, then add a similarly named keyboard and guitar Arp, you will likely hear the source data. In other words, these Arp phrases are presented individually by instrument - but were once an ensemble playing music as a rhythm section... Arpeggios are much like Arranger Styles except they are proffered as individual items, in such a way as to invite mixing and matching. They invite you to generate entirely new musical combinations. The real time adjustments (Swing, Multiply, Gate, Velocity, etc) mean you can customize the feel of the phrase to your liking for your use.

Extra Credit
If you want just a repeated note, this type does that when you play a single key. 1 Single Key has no Up or down, and it stays within the Octave triggered so by definition it will just repeat the same note over and over.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 9
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