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  1. CassieDennis
  2. Sherlock Holmes
  3. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  4. Friday, 30 September 2016
Bad Mister continues the lesson on how to create arpeggios and incorporate into your mix with MONTAGE. Not read the article yet? Check it out here.

Please use this Forum conversation to discuss ideas and ask questions about the article.

And if you haven't had a chance to read the first installment of the lesson, you can check it out here.
Responses (20)
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Thank you Cassie and Phil ;)
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 1
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Hallo.

Thank You For The Arpeggio Introduction.
It Is Very Helpful.
Is It Neccessary To Record The Arpeggio Notes In A Specific Key As C Maj 7 For The Best Chord Recognition
As It Is Neccessary When Recording Working Phrases For The Tyros For Example.
I Missed This Part In Your Introduction.
Sometimes When I Just Record Arpeggio Phrases And Set Them To Original Notes
Some Chords Sound Different While Being Arpeggio Triggered.
I Think There Are Rules For That Too.
I Am Looking Forward On A Third Part About That.
I Mainly Use User Arpeggios.
But I Am Used To The PSR 8000 Part Recordings.
Mostly I Succeed With Trying Out.
But I Need A More Basic Understanding On How To Achieve What I Really Want To Hear In The Arpeggios
To Have Them Playing The Right Thirds And Fifths On Every Chord.
Thank You Very Much For Your Help And Introduction To This Important Topic.
Greetings Alex.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 2
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I have a question . I record a Midi ARP on Cubase with a 4 bars single track guitar ...I don't assign this track to any particularly voice for this track ...Export this track as a midi data to my USB ... what do I need to do in order to have it to the Montage for ARP
Please list the step by step to follow .

Thanks
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 3
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Record your data to Cubase (if you wish) _how you do that without assigning a sound, I don't know. It doesn't matter

Use the Cubase FILE option EXPORT > MIDI FILE*
Make sure the File has the extension .mid
With that data on your USB stick, move it physically to the Montage

Place the USB stick in Montage
Press [UTILITY]
Touch "Contents" > "Load"

Touch the the box that represents your USB drive to view its contents
Touch the box with the title of your .mid file this will load it to the Montage player

Touch the box at the top of screen that displays the song title to see the pop-in options
Touch "USER ARP"
The rest you know...


*Have your Cubase Preferences for MIDI FILE set so EXPORT MIDI OPTION is setup to create a TYPE 0, 480 pulse per quarter note
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 4
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Sorry for a little confusion here, I said that " I dont assign my record ARP to any sounds on the Montage, But I used the cubase to record it...Its sounds good on the Cubase.

I follow the instruction to load the Midi ARP into the Montage, But I cant use it for the ARP as i wish..I am not sure how...Does anyone have successful by chance? Please list your procedures

Thanks


Use the Cubase FILE option EXPORT > MIDI FILE*
Make sure the File has the extension .mid
With that data on your USB stick, move it physically to the Montage

Place the USB stick in Montage
Press [UTILITY]
Touch "Contents" > "Load"
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 5
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Is It Neccessary To Record The Arpeggio Notes In A Specific Key As C Maj 7 For The Best Chord Recognition
No, any key is fine, because when making chord intelligent (Org Note) arpeggio phrases you get to set the "Original Notes Root". Arpeggios work to detect major/minor thirds, augmented/diminished fifths, major/dominant sevenths, which have the same relationship in all keys.

Although there is a similarity between Arpeggios as found here, and what the Tyros/PSR does. Technically speaking, the Style engine does not have an Arpeggiator. The rules are different.

@ Tho
Before doing your own, try to reproduce the example given.
Get that to work... Then try your own data.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 6
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Sorry but I really don´t understand this tutorial at all. I looked thru the elements of "Mega Nylon". Fine. But how do you do this? How do you assign the 4 ARP tracks to different elements? How do you record one after the other and determine what they sould do to which element? There aren´t 4 arp recording tracks here - you record a single arp "track" first and then later you can chose 4 tracks, which defies logic. What to do with them? It makes absolutely no sense at all to me.
Anyone done an ARP like that yet?
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 7
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
The "Mega Nylon" uses three of the four possible Arp tracks (did you really attempt to do it?)
I wrote exactly what might be recorded to create this particular arpeggio phrase.

First listen closely to the different arp phrases discussed while fingering the chords mentioned. The idea is to hear within them "how they were constructed". The notation recreates exactly what must have been recorded to recreate the Bossa Nova assigned as Arp 4 of the Maga Nylon PART.

Place the "Mega Nylon" in the first three Parts of a new Performance. That is, in Part 1, in Part 2 and in Part 3. You do this because in the end all three tracks will be assigned to just one instance of this sound. But to record and convert the phrase they are recorded separately and then converted into a single phrase.

Record the first line on Track 1 - this will be the chords
Record the second line on Track 2 - this will be the thumb bass
Record the noise sound fx on Track 3 - this will be the finger noises

Once you've recorded these three things to three tracks. Setup the "Put Track to Arpeggio" dialog box as shown.
Your result will be an arpeggio phrase equivalent to what you hear in the Bossa Nova phrase as assigned to Arp4 of the Preset: Mega Nylon
It uses three of the available arp tracks.

Did you place Mega Nylon in three Parts 1, 2, 3?
Did you record the three written phrases one to each track?
Do you understand the difference in the Convert Types?
Did you set the User Arp function as shown in the article: phrase 1 uses Orginal Note, phrase 2 uses Original Note, phrase three uses Fixed Note?
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 8
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Hi Bad Mister, no I did not try to record a multi track ARP because I want to understand the logic first. And I don´t get it yet. If I choose a guitar sound from the presets and want to make one of those fancy ARPs with noise and thumb bass, how do I even know which element has the noise, which has the thumb and so on? How does it work with preset guitar ARPs? How do they work with different guitar sounds when they trigger specific elements, (and I don´t suppose every guitar sound has the noise and other extras in the same element or note range)?
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 9
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Those are the exact questions answered in the article.

If I choose a guitar sound from the presets and want to make one of those fancy ARPs with noise and thumb bass, how do I even know which element has the noise, which has the thumb and so on?
That is exactly what I did in the article, I selected one of those fancy Arps with noise and thumb bass, and show you how to isolate the different Elements.

How does it work with preset guitar ARPs?
The article shows how the preset guitar Arp is made!

How do they work with different guitar sounds when they trigger specific elements, (and I don´t suppose every guitar sound has the noise and other extras in the same element or note range)?
The prefix MEGA is a special Guitar or Bass sound that includes noises, and articulations accessed either by velocity switching or note range mapping. The Data List booklet lists every Arp and the type of sound that was used to create it.

If you just read the article without pushing the buttons, without Muting Elements, Soloing Elements as you go, without experiencing hearing the results, then you can't really learn anything from this tutorial. Sorry, it's meant to do it as you read. Step by step. (It's like you're putting me on, because what you ask: That's exactly what the the article does).

Get back to me when you DO try it.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 10
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Not trying to put you on! Ok, we´re getting somewhere here. The info about MEGA sounds explains the logic behind how these arps communicate with different sounds that I didn´t understand. I read on Moessieurs site that MEGA sounds can only be played with MG Arps and vice versa. Important info that clears up some of the confusion. I did follow the lesson and push buttons, mute elements, that was all clear, but then I got lost when it came to recording.
I´ll try again.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 11
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Arpeggios work to detect major/minor thirds, augmented/diminished fifths, major/dominant sevenths, which have the same relationship in all keys.


Thank You Very Much Bad Mister.
This Is What I Need To Know.
Good To Have That Clear.
Now I Just Need To Find A Good Ressource About Music Theory.
If Anyone Knows A Good And Easy To Follow Ressource About The Quoted Relationships I Really Appreciate If You Post It Here.

Many Greetings Alex.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 12
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
As you can tell it is very, very difficult to "play" in real time, some MEGA Part instruments, (there is one that is made up of eight different velocity regions). Impossible to "play" as a human but perfect when you can control the precise velocity when recording it as MIDI. An arpeggio is data that can be repeated. You can "fix" the velocity of your keyboard transmit so that it triggers just where you want. Or you can edit the data in your DAW.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 13
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OK, I recorded a 3 track Arp with Mega Nylon. It sounds awful but it does indeed trigger different elements and makes guitar noises. Easier for me to play a real guitar thow than to try to recreate it like this. But I understand how this works now, and given my poor skills at it I´ve decided to leave the mega-arp-making to the pros. There are enough great mega guitar arps on the montage - now that I know what they are and how to find them I´m thrilled!
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 14
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Hallo Phil.

I Need More Insight Into The Four Track Arpeggios.
As I Now Recognized The Mega Nylon Performance Differs From Many Other Arpeggios Because Of It‘s Direct Chord Recognition.
It Doesn‘t Matter Here Which Way Around I Play A Chord.
When I Play Normal One Track Arpeggios I Am Limited To Only The Root Note Of A Chord To Make Montage Detect What Chord I Am After.
I Often Have The Problem That When I Play A Non Arpeggio Pad Full Chords And Exchange The Order Of The Notes Of These Chords Once In A While To Give My Playing A More Expressive Feeling With Ups And Downs My Arpeggios In The Performance Tend To Break Out Of The Chord Because They Always Rely On The Root Notes Of The Chords That I Am Playing.
Usually I Have Very Minimalistic Bass Lines Or Sequences As I Am Making Old School Synthie Pop.
But I Really Want To Be Able To Play Full Chord Performances Without Always Having To Stick On The Root Notes Of A Chord.
How Can I Program A Simple Bassline Running All The Time On One Note For Example The Way That It Recognizes The Correct Root Note Of A Full Chord I Am Playing.
This Is Really My Main Problem With Montage.
I Always Work Around That To Have At Least The Simple Parts Running On It‘s Own While Playing The Chord Part On The Right Side Of The Split Point.
Please Show Me How I Can End This And Really Play A Useful Accompaniment Section With Montage The Way That I Am Used To With My Yamaha PSR 8000 Back In The Days.
Thank You And Keep Up The Good Work.
I Learned A Lot From You.
Greetings From Germany Alex.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 15
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Hi Xander,
MONTAGE is not a PSR.
It is not an Arranger.
The rules are different.
PSR did not have an Arpeggiator, it had a STYLE engine.
While similar in some things they are as different as Electronica and Folk music in other things!

While arrangers have several different Fingering modes to accommodate different types of backing instruments, and playing styles, the Arpeggio is a phrase that can be manipulated via the Chord intelligence function, but there is not the same strict rules you find in the Arranger world.

In fact, on MONTAGE until you encounter an Arp phrase, you will not know what it will do until you try it! Some will surprise you.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 16
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It is so much more fun to play with the Mega arps than to make them. (imho) The User developed ARPs are handy to have if needed, but the Mega Arps especially for guitar are quite exceptional in my opinion. The Factory Dudes must have spent alot of time on some them. I like to work with playing them along maybe with one other instrument, right now I am working with a piano playing and guitar mega arp accomp.... and you can really make some amazing collaborations with these arps. Many of them you have to let loop thru many measures and voicings to really hear what they will do. So much fun, but I will probably never make my own.... just playing with the factory mega arps.... is so productive. Coupling this with the FC7 foot pedal, and assignments of other voices, effects, and scenes setup.... pleasurably powerful playing. Then being able to dump the fully articulated midi to Elements for incorporating into a production... with a simple set up... sound great, and getting easier as I refine my workflows to capture in midi then audio.... and stack on up in a tune.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 17
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Thank You Phil.

I Am Aware Of This.
I Also Followed Your Tutorials Step By Step.

The Mega Nylon Arpeggios And By That I Mean Every One Of Them
Are The First Type Of Arpeggios I Discover On The Montage
With Note Low / Note High And High Key Values As In A Typical Style Pattern.
This Gives Me The Ability To Play One And The Same Chord
On Whatever Region Of The Keyboard I Want It It Always Stays In The Same Pitch.
Also When I Exchange The Order Of My Held Notes For One Chord.
For Example When I Play A Normal C Major With C E G Or I Play C Major With E G C Or With G C E It Doesn‘t Matter.
The Chord Arpeggio Always Plays The Same Phrase For The Chord.
This Is The First Real Chord Intelligent Arpeggio That I Discover On The Montage.
Intelligent Due To The Fact That It Really Recognizes The Chord Wherever
And However I Play It And That The Output Phrase Hereby Always Stays The Same.
This Is Also Exactly How I Want To Build My User Arpeggios For My Montage.
I Am Writing For My Montage Because I Am Pretty Sure
That These Specific Type Of Arpeggios Can‘t Be Done
The Given On Board Put Track To Arpeggio Way.
Articulation Wise Yes.
But We Can Not Restrict The Arpeggios With Note Low And Note High Limits
Or High Key Values Or Transpose Type And Source Chord Information.
And This Is Appearingly The Way The Yamaha Programmers Did It In The Case Of The Mega Nylon Arpeggios.
Plus When Montage Came Out The On Board Put Track To Arpeggio Function Was Still Not Embedded.
So They Must Have Had An Alternative Way To Do It.
Please Give Us Users This Way Of Programming Real Chord Intelligent User Arpeggios At Hand.
Or At Least Me If I Seem To Be The Only One On Here With The Interest Of Programming These Kind Of Arpeggios.
What Is The Software Yamaha Used To Implement The Additional Control Values For The Note Limits And The Transpose Type?
Or Are There At Least Some Alternatives You Can Offer Us?
I Tried To Output A Sequence From One Man Band A Style Maker For Keyboards
Like Tyros But There I Can Not Save The Single Sequence As A Midi File To Later Put It Track To Arpeggio.
I Just Want The Control Values For The Specific Parameters That Control
The Chord Recognition Behaviour Of The Arpeggio Being Embedded In The Arpeggio Itself.
Your Tutorial Did Not Yet Cover That Part Of The Creation Of The User Arpeggios.
Your Example Is The Mega Nylon Sound But Your Tutorial Only Shows
The Stacking Of The Seperate Arpeggio Melodies And The Dynamic Relation To Each Other.
I Want To Learn The Exact Buildup Considering The Chord Recognition Part Of It.
So There Is More To That.
Please Continue With Your Tutorials About The 4 Track Arpeggio And Give Us More Insight Into These Programming Related Details.
Greetings And Thanks Again Alex.
I Really Appreciate Your Hard Work.

PS : I Attached A Picture Showing An Example Of The Value String
For Controlling The Chord Recognition The Way They Did It With The Mega Nylon Arpeggios.http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb114/Promised_Eden/EF51937D-42EE-46E9-B0F5-B355B194C1A8_zpsvzhqeavv.jpeg
References
  1. https://www.dropbox.com/s/voks259r1e3yhx2/Datei%2013.10.17%2C%2005%2057%2030.jpeg?dl=0
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 18
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Hi Gabi,

I read through the article as well. It is very in-depth.

If you are able to record three tracks in the same performance, then assign them to ARP Tracks 1-3, then you should be good.

Now, one little detail that you may have missed is that when you are assigning those ARP tracks to the voice(elements), you will need to set some key and volicity range limits on the keyboard bed for each active element.

For example, if element 7 is your thump, which you want ARP track 3(assuming this is the ARP used to save the thump recording feel, and the key range used were somewhere around G6-G8, then, you may want to set the key range on element 7 to similar range to avoid other sounds from that waveform from coming out.

If you adjust the key ranges from the Mega Nylon example given in the article, you will note that the sound begins to lose its authenticity and start sounding a bit weird.

Try adjusting the key ranges to one where the necessary notes were recorded.

I hope that helps!
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 19
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Glad to see this string, I still dont think I will try to create my 4 track arps.... but I love the ones out of the box. I do have a question on some of the intelligent chord voicings the and differences... for example on one of the performances Bad Mister Montaged a lil while back. I could play a jazz voiced chord and leave out the root note, and it would understand that C13 chord and not a Bflat for example. Not sure it the chord intelligence used in the performance is something us mortals could program.

So How come the bass arp in Smooth Guitar knows that root is in C when playing c13 (bflat, e, a).................when other arps do not understand that chord voicing?

Is it Yamaha Arp Factory Dude Magic or something us mortals can reproduce :)
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE Series Synthesizers
  3. # 20
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