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  1. Tyron
  2. Sherlock Holmes The Voice
  3. MONTAGE
  4. Monday, 17 October 2016
I have a few suggestions for some possible changes that I'd like to see and hope others also.

The first is there needs to be x3 OS for the Montage _ Studio, Live performance and its Current Yamaha factory incarnation.

1: Studio mode


• Whilst in this mode only 4 channels of audio will be available. More would be better but users will understand the sacrifice needed in order to add the additional synth engine.

• Additional virtual analog style synth engine. Authentic emulations of the Moog, Oberhiem etc.

• There should be exactly the same setup in regards to elements per part but obviously master program effects such as filter that modulates all elements simultaneous.

• Updated synth GUI that models traditional VST anlaog synth design. Please think Access Virus, Ominisphere etc for inspiration.

• Rupert Neve RND EQ and Compressor should be available as a Montage purchase. Specifically coded versions of RND portico plug-ins that Montage users can purchase as a download. Should be able to run several instances of these plugins per channel.

• In order to take advantage of the wonderful PAC technology more easily a simple export button menu should be made available where by the Monatge syncs with cubase and exports all selected lanes (individually) of audio in real-time through your user interface for recording into Cubase.



2: Performance mode


• This is used for live playing. I don’t play live and so don’t have many suggestions for this mode other than it will need to allow easy access to common performance features. I am sure that the live performers have already suggested lots of updates in the new OS.



3: Yamaha mode


• As currently is with the necessary updates as requested by the users on previous threads.



I am not a programmer and so my understanding of developing a new synth engine is perhaps a bit ideological and greatly simplified but hopefully I have conveyed the needs of modern sound designers away from performance based musicians.

Whilst such implementations may be expensive I would happily argue that a truly hybrid virtual analog synth really is the modern studio holy grail and that it would be quickly adopted by forward thinking producers. That spells Yamaha cash cow!! Currently the Montage’s main appeal is as a performance synth however it has really not been marketed as such (more studio hyped) and some early adopters feel a little hard done by once they receive the machine.

I wonder if anyone who is particularly clued up in terms of synth hardware, processing power and software design could advise on the feasibility of my suggestions in regards to implementation?

Please feel free to add anything you feel I have missed or even if you just think these requests are wildly outlandish. Lets conversate:)
Responses (10)
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
You have three suggestions, but fully admit "I don’t play live and so... " and "I am not a programmer and so..."". So I guess you would like to "conversate" about the "Studio mode" :)

Happy to, thanks for getting this discussion going. The Montage has some different (some say 'quirky') workflows but it is an extremely powerful synth that can be used in several different ways when recording.

To MIDI, or not to MIDI
That is your first question. Every musicians workflow is their own. And should be decided upon because it makes you comfortable. Recognize that some people record MIDI tracks initially, then make corrections, change their minds about instrumentation and sounds, (keeping the audio "virtual";), then once things are assembled and tweaked, they render the whole thing as Audio.

Recognize that some people record directly as audio, bypassing the whole MIDI-record thing entirely. They find little real benefit in the workflow that involves MIDI routing/recording/rendering. They simply record everything as audio.

Recognize also that some folks use a combination of these methodologies and do somethings as MIDI first, and do somethings directly to audio tracks.

We can leave the folks who never finish anything out of this conversation because, they never finish and are likely to wander the possible workflows forever :)

But please recognize that every one of the workflows is valid, and has strong points and weak points - but one is neither better or worse than the other. Those comfortable using a combination of workflows seem to be in a place that best. It's a simple matter of choice and application of self.

To MIDI...
The MIDI-record/virtual audio/to mixdown workflow requires routing MIDI signals, echoing signals, direct monitoring of the audio without printing any actual audio, until all data is assembled. This can be complicated for first-timers, but a surprising number of musicians have mastered this workflow and move in and out of it smoothly. When using hardware (external synths), you might think you'd be limited to just the 16 Parts available "live" from the hardware. But through creative routing and the ability to create virtual audio ("freeze";) tracks, you can actually open multiple instances of your hardware and continue to use your hardware.

The FREEZE function found in many of today's pro DAW software, prints a temporary audio file of what you are working on as MIDI... easily undone, when you want to edit the original MIDI data, and the advantage is it frees (no pun intended) your hardware to create a new set of 16 Parts, and do on. Creating a second instance of your Montage in your DAW.

... Or not to MIDI
The Montage has the capability to output each of its sixteen Parts to a discreet Stereo audio Output. Don't know about you, but I've never been able to do that before- 32 audio outputs simultaneously. The outputs can be flexibly setup in odd/even pairs, or as individual mono sends. Individual Drums from within a single kit can be routed to their own discreet outputs! The options here are many as well.

You can opt to record via 16 stereo buses, @44.1kHz or you can select 4 Stereo @44.1, 48, 96, or 192kHz - this is selected in the UTILITY > Settings > Audio I/O area.

If you know about Rupert Neve, then you know his Portico effects use the same Yamaha VCM technology already found in your Montage. It was the VCM you have (now) that so impressed Mr. Neve that he selected the modeling process to recreate his effects.

Before you greatly up the price of Montage with this request, we'd be happy to turn the discussion to the VCM effects already on board, and how to get the most out of them. Portico Effects, sure, why not, they are stellar, but the effects you have already are of the same high quality, as well.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 1
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Mr. Side Chain is the most impressive feature that make me to buy the Montage, Because we really need to play Live for Techno Dance music...But it is become no use for Live Performance since A/D input does not work with Live Drummer, and Mr. Side Chain does require an internal Drum Kick in order to make to Sound jump up and down...In the Live Play situation we can't play with that Drum Kick in Mr. Side Chain because we already have the drummer...But if we turn off the Drum Kick from Mr. Side Chain then it doesn't work as a Side Chain Sounds jump up and down any more....

So you know what is the improvement that Yamaha needs to make here

Thanks
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 2
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
@Tho
You are hijacking the thread. And you are incorrect. Of course, you can use an external kick drum to Side Chain compress the Montage sound.

Please start your own thread and we can show you how...

Thanks in advance...
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 3
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Sorry Bad Mister .. I have opened the new topic
Thanks
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 4
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
The FREEZE function found in many of today's pro DAW software, prints a temporary audio file of what you are working on as MIDI... easily undone, when you want to edit the original MIDI data, and the advantage is it frees (no pun intended) your hardware to create a new set of 16 Parts, and do on. Creating a second instance of your Montage in your DAW.


Really? You can FREEZE MIDI tracks in Cubase? This will be really useful!

How?

I've been searching, and can only find information about freezing INSTRUMENT tracks in Cubase - nothing about MIDI tracks.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 5
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I have been quite transparent BM as I’m all about the ‘Studio Mode’ which I think would really open up the Montage to the studio producer. Many project studio producers just want hardware that seamlessly integrates within our software environment. PC’s processing power seems to have plateaued recently however bigger and hungry pieces of software code seem to be written every 3 months and some PC’s are beginning to creak. We have seen this gap in the market plugged by companies such as UAD & TC Electronics with their DSP chip based systems that allow offsetting of processing. The Montage is perfectly poised to bridge the gap between Virtual Analog , AMW2 sound design, FMX and audio processing in one cool board. A change in its current OS configuration with a more user friendly GUI could deliver access to these platforms in a way not seen in any other hardware synth.

I think the 16 parts multitimbral is awesome but my suspicion is that this architecture would not support a Virtual analog type synth engine and perhaps is the reason we don’t have an analog style synth engine. I like the idea of 4 powerful virtual analog synths being triggered from my Montage in real time with quality effects and RND quality software. Analog synthesis allows me to be creative in a way I feel comfortable.

I mention 4 channels of audio because I suspect many users would quite happily lose 12 of these multitimbral parts. They would happily sacrifice to use a Digital virtual analog synth capabale of 4 parts multitimbral using a similar osc structure per element per part. The beauty of the ‘Studio Mode’ is that one could create the parts they wish (using purpose built on screen/monitor GUI) , then bounce to audio and then revert back to ‘Yamaha Mode’ for the rest of the composition with AWM2 engine synthesis. The Montage would be an actual design beast.

I wonder how current users would feel with a ‘studio mode’ which would basically be an OS environment that allowed a 4 channel VA synth engine during which time AWM2 synthesis was not possible ?

I guess perhaps I am quite ridged in my thinking but I am just a product of the current environment. I really like the simplicity and intuitive nature of analog synthesis as opposed to what’s currently on offer. I would really like to see a smart GUI to replace the current screen programming. Don’t get me wrong it’s a great screen but we are at a stage technology wise where we can actually bridge that gap and if it means having a slightly different OS system which restricts the Motion control midi implementation then perhaps that’s a sacrifice worth making for the benefits of ease of use and accessibility. Just how difficult would these suggestions be to implement and do other members think these would be useful?

I do appreciate that VCM technology is behind the modelled effects on the Montage however the RND portico emulations are what we would describe in the UK as being ‘different gravy’ and that’s no disrespect to the stock pluggins. I think having access to such world class software versions of high quality and very musical sounding pieces of hardware would strengthen the studio integration aspect of the Montage and again reduce the processing needs on the host PC. Also Yamaha own the tech, so let’s make it accessible for Yamaha owners please :)

I think I’ve rambled enough but if anyone has anything they like to contribute come on let’s get it rolling.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 6
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
@Lawrence

Really? You can FREEZE MIDI tracks in Cubase? This will be really useful!

How?
This requires Cubase Pro 8 and building an "External Instrument" in your VST CONNECTIONS. You can use the Freeze function, and the Export Audio Mixdown features.

The External Instrument function is a VST CONNECTIONS feature that allows you to route MIDI tracks from Cubase to an external hardware synthesizer, and then create a routing situation so that the returning audio of that external device can be captured in Cubase via the Virtual Studio Technology. (Of course, this all takes place with Cubase's advanced delay compensation, automatically). The advantage here is that you can process the data with computer-based plug-in Effects, utilize Export Audio Mixdown and use the Freeze functions (same as you would with any soft synth). The setup of the External Instrument function is covered in the Steinberg documentation - I have written articles on how to do this with the previous synths including the Motif XF, and even the MX49/MX61. I haven't yet posted a complete setup guide for Montage quite yet. I wanted to see how the Montage Connect utility was going to figure into this.

How it works:
Typically, when using external hardware you send MIDI data into a Track, the Track then echoes the signal back to the tone engine, which feeds the audio directly to the outputs. You are locked out of processing the data, locked out of the freeze function, locked out of Audio MIXDOWN.

This External Instrument routing will send the returning audio instead of directly to the outputs alone, also routes the returning audio via the External Instrument device we will create. (You of course need to mute one of the pathways, to avoid doubling). You can route the audio from Montage through any of the 32 audio bus outputs... This audio is heard through VST Audio Lanes same as any other VST.

You can setup as many stereo and/or mono audio returns as you desire.

@Tyron
I can't discuss any future plans but just recognize that Montage is still an infant. And as is typical of recent Yamaha synth history, I think it is safe to say that we can expect new features and functions. Naturally, whatever they are, they will not please everyone. But it's an exciting time.

Some requests go far beyond any real possibility, and not because they aren't good ideas but either they are price prohibitive or they are just not grounded in reality. :) But nothing is outside consideration.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 7
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Thank you, Bad Mister.

I will look into this.

Has this been covered in one of the Montage + Cubase videos, or will it be covered in a subsequent video?

Thanks, once again.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 8
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Thanks BM, I'm looking forward to more of your great YouTube videos and the future of the Montage :)
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 9
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